Lonzo Ball

[cksdayoff]

a quick question to Ball fans

- How are Ball's handles? I think he has good handles, I just don't think they're all that great. I haven't seen much of him drive into the paint and kick out or drive and dish to a cutting big. I'm not saying he doesn't have the quickness to get into the paint, because I believe he has a quick first step, but I feel like he doesn't have the handles to consistently drive and dish, that's a question mark for me, he makes a ton of passes near the top of the key and around the wings, he'll drive to the free throw line and find an open man out near the 3 or for a long 2.

I just haven't seen him penetrate any deeper than that. When you have shooters all around you who can nail contested and open long jumpers, i guess you really don't need to. I just don't think, at least right now, he has tight enough handles where he can maneuver his way around congested traffic in the painted area. and it feels like having a lot of talented shooters on the team masks that one deficiency of his.

[Marcus]

Btw, that wasn't a critique, love his game, but I could see NBA shooting coaches trying to tweak it a bit. I don't see it as a problem.

That's fair. I'm sure somebody has that in mind.

i dunno...why mess with something that works. i mean, if his shot starts getting blocked a ton at the next level, i can see them tweaking it a little after his rookie year.

we don't think they should just saying they more than likely will try to.

[madmaxmedia]

TJ Leaf was a beast as well. Love that kid. It was frustrating watching Hamilton shoot more than anyone else and turn the ball over. Why does coach allow that nonsense? He should be fifth in shots every night. If they don't fix this chucker it'll hurt them in the tournament

Hamilton had a great start to the year but has been in a slump recently. I read his teammates were actively working to get him shots and help get him out of his slump (being they played a weak opponent.)

[Marcus]

a quick question to Ball fans

- How are Ball's handles? I think he has good handles, I just don't think they're all that great. I haven't seen much of him drive into the paint and kick out or drive and dish to a cutting big. I'm not saying he doesn't have the quickness to get into the paint, because I believe he has a quick first step, but I feel like he doesn't have the handles to consistently drive and dish, that's a question mark for me, he makes a ton of passes near the top of the key and around the wings, he'll drive to the free throw line and find an open man out near the 3 or for a long 2.

I just haven't seen him penetrate any deeper than that. When you have shooters all around you who can nail contested and open long jumpers, i guess you really don't need to. I just don't think, at least right now, he has tight enough handles where he can maneuver his way around congested traffic in the painted area. and it feels like having a lot of talented shooters on the team masks that one deficiency of his.

there's not a lot of shake to his game at all. you may get one counter move after the initial drive but he's not stop and start like DSJ or keeps you off balance like Fultz. Basically straight line drives. He can stand to get a little lower through traffic, I think his left hand still needs some congestion work, and his attack will be limited without the addition of push, scoops, and floaters.

I personally wouldn't call it a negative that he doesn't go all the way to the cup each time. I honestly think it's more IQ driven than physical capability I think he's driving to suck the defense in and take the best look possible whether that look is his or a teammate's.
I think he's capable of getting to the cup under advantageous situations, I think he picks his spots, I do understand wanting him to attack more often and I agree at times that he should do so but I don't think it's something out of his capability.

[ItsThatEasy]

a quick question to Ball fans

- How are Ball's handles? I think he has good handles, I just don't think they're all that great. I haven't seen much of him drive into the paint and kick out or drive and dish to a cutting big. I'm not saying he doesn't have the quickness to get into the paint, because I believe he has a quick first step, but I feel like he doesn't have the handles to consistently drive and dish, that's a question mark for me, he makes a ton of passes near the top of the key and around the wings, he'll drive to the free throw line and find an open man out near the 3 or for a long 2.

I just haven't seen him penetrate any deeper than that. When you have shooters all around you who can nail contested and open long jumpers, i guess you really don't need to. I just don't think, at least right now, he has tight enough handles where he can maneuver his way around congested traffic in the painted area. and it feels like having a lot of talented shooters on the team masks that one deficiency of his.

there's not a lot of shake to his game at all. you may get one counter move after the initial drive but he's not stop and start like DSJ or keeps you off balance like Fultz. Basically straight line drives. He can stand to get a little lower through traffic, I think his left hand still needs some congestion work, and his attack will be limited without the addition of push, scoops, and floaters.

I personally wouldn't call it a negative that he doesn't go all the way to the cup each time. I honestly think it's more IQ driven than physical capability I think he's driving to suck the defense in and take the best look possible whether that look is his or a teammate's.
I think he's capable of getting to the cup under advantageous situations, I think he picks his spots, I do understand wanting him to attack more often and I agree at times that he should do so but I don't think it's something out of his capability.

This isn't aimed specifically at your analysis at all but the excuses for his shortcomings always seem to revert back to "he doesn't need to" or "he hasn't had to".

At some point the guy is going to have to show and prove. I can't justify drafting a guy that high until it's proven he can or can't execute. This rhetoric has been used regarding him running the PnR effectively, having a mid-range game, being able to get his shot off consistently, and now his handles.

I've been critical of Ball in the past and I'll admit he's won me over a bit recently but I'm going to need to actually see some of these hypothetical skills in action at some point.

[Marcus]

a quick question to Ball fans

- How are Ball's handles? I think he has good handles, I just don't think they're all that great. I haven't seen much of him drive into the paint and kick out or drive and dish to a cutting big. I'm not saying he doesn't have the quickness to get into the paint, because I believe he has a quick first step, but I feel like he doesn't have the handles to consistently drive and dish, that's a question mark for me, he makes a ton of passes near the top of the key and around the wings, he'll drive to the free throw line and find an open man out near the 3 or for a long 2.

I just haven't seen him penetrate any deeper than that. When you have shooters all around you who can nail contested and open long jumpers, i guess you really don't need to. I just don't think, at least right now, he has tight enough handles where he can maneuver his way around congested traffic in the painted area. and it feels like having a lot of talented shooters on the team masks that one deficiency of his.

there's not a lot of shake to his game at all. you may get one counter move after the initial drive but he's not stop and start like DSJ or keeps you off balance like Fultz. Basically straight line drives. He can stand to get a little lower through traffic, I think his left hand still needs some congestion work, and his attack will be limited without the addition of push, scoops, and floaters.

I personally wouldn't call it a negative that he doesn't go all the way to the cup each time. I honestly think it's more IQ driven than physical capability I think he's driving to suck the defense in and take the best look possible whether that look is his or a teammate's.
I think he's capable of getting to the cup under advantageous situations, I think he picks his spots, I do understand wanting him to attack more often and I agree at times that he should do so but I don't think it's something out of his capability.

This isn't aimed specifically at your analysis at all but the excuses for his shortcomings always seem to revert back to "he doesn't need to" or "he hasn't had to".

At some point the guy is going to have to show and prove. I can't justify drafting a guy that high until it's proven he can or can't execute. This rhetoric has been used regarding him running the PnR effectively, having a mid-range game, being able to get his shot off consistently, and now his handles.

I've been critical of Ball in the past and I'll admit he's won me over a bit recently but I'm going to need to actually see some of these hypothetical skills in action at some point.

that's more than fair. If there are specifics you're looking for in a player and that player doesn't answer those questions then by all means pass him up for a player that does. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

He's good in the PnR, can attack or dish depending on what's made available to him. The mid-range is an issue if he's going to be forced to show and prove there at the next level so that's a legit concern. Feels like the shot has been proven, if you think not then its something you're going to have to wait and see at the next level to answer that question. No denying his handle needs work (especially going left) and he has no shift to his drive.

I don't think I've so much said that "he doesn't need to" or "hasn't had to" (not saying you're accusing me of doing so) as I've moreso stated you're just not going to see that from him because its not the way he plays the game. I think it's more than fair to question aspects of his game because the questions are logical. I've been watching this class since 2014 so I'm familiar with what to expect from them on the floor. The questions I had for Lonzo have been answered. Wasn't sure about his release against like sized players and he's checked that box for me. Wasn't sure about if he could even run a half court offense coming out of that system at Chino Hills and he's reeled in those concerns as well while still keeping his flair. Still think he needs to be a better finisher around the cup, still think he needs to fight through picks better, and I still think he needs to be more consistent on-ball when defending. But everything I knew about the kid is what he's showing.

I do think I defend him quite a bit but it's more in an attempt temper some of the expectations. He's not going to give you everything you want to see because its not how he plays. He just might not be the PG for you. I don't think it's an excuse so much as it's factual. Considering the depth in this draft especially at that position the variety is nice and wide to find the type of PG you're looking for.

[E-Balla]

a quick question to Ball fans

- How are Ball's handles? I think he has good handles, I just don't think they're all that great. I haven't seen much of him drive into the paint and kick out or drive and dish to a cutting big. I'm not saying he doesn't have the quickness to get into the paint, because I believe he has a quick first step, but I feel like he doesn't have the handles to consistently drive and dish, that's a question mark for me, he makes a ton of passes near the top of the key and around the wings, he'll drive to the free throw line and find an open man out near the 3 or for a long 2.

I just haven't seen him penetrate any deeper than that. When you have shooters all around you who can nail contested and open long jumpers, i guess you really don't need to. I just don't think, at least right now, he has tight enough handles where he can maneuver his way around congested traffic in the painted area. and it feels like having a lot of talented shooters on the team masks that one deficiency of his.

there's not a lot of shake to his game at all. you may get one counter move after the initial drive but he's not stop and start like DSJ or keeps you off balance like Fultz. Basically straight line drives. He can stand to get a little lower through traffic, I think his left hand still needs some congestion work, and his attack will be limited without the addition of push, scoops, and floaters.

I personally wouldn't call it a negative that he doesn't go all the way to the cup each time. I honestly think it's more IQ driven than physical capability I think he's driving to suck the defense in and take the best look possible whether that look is his or a teammate's.
I think he's capable of getting to the cup under advantageous situations, I think he picks his spots, I do understand wanting him to attack more often and I agree at times that he should do so but I don't think it's something out of his capability.

This isn't aimed specifically at your analysis at all but the excuses for his shortcomings always seem to revert back to "he doesn't need to" or "he hasn't had to".

At some point the guy is going to have to show and prove. I can't justify drafting a guy that high until it's proven he can or can't execute. This rhetoric has been used regarding him running the PnR effectively, having a mid-range game, being able to get his shot off consistently, and now his handles.

I've been critical of Ball in the past and I'll admit he's won me over a bit recently but I'm going to need to actually see some of these hypothetical skills in action at some point.

Personally I think his handles are lacking (no creativity in them - he's average SG level when it comes to handling the ball) but he's proven he can execute in the PNR and that he can get hit shot off. Go watch his highlights from the Stanford game last night and look at how they are forced to trap him on the PNR because he can pull from anywhere and make it and how when they trap him he makes the right pass out of it. I don't know how anyone can watch him and doubt his PNR skills. You're not going under the screen and once you're forced to guard him over the screen you're finished because he can drive straight line and pass to whoever once the defense keys in on him.

He's averaging 18 ppg on 65 TS% in the 4 conference games and leading the team in FGAs (2nd in scoring because Bryce Alford has been absolutely on fire). His increase in scoring production is why even as Aaron Holiday struggles (8.5 ppg on 46 TS% in conference games) the offense has been just as good as usual.

Lonzo's stock isn't high because he's a 20 ppg scorer or because he has the potential to be one. Its high because he's an amazing passer with great vision and the ability to make the right play most of the time even if that play is to call his own number. Sure he'll struggle to score in the league but he's not Ricky Rubio or Rondo where you don't have to guard him because if you decide to leave him anywhere near a decent amount of space he won't hesitate to shoot and make a deep shot.

[greg4012]

a quick question to Ball fans

- How are Ball's handles? I think he has good handles, I just don't think they're all that great. I haven't seen much of him drive into the paint and kick out or drive and dish to a cutting big. I'm not saying he doesn't have the quickness to get into the paint, because I believe he has a quick first step, but I feel like he doesn't have the handles to consistently drive and dish, that's a question mark for me, he makes a ton of passes near the top of the key and around the wings, he'll drive to the free throw line and find an open man out near the 3 or for a long 2.

I just haven't seen him penetrate any deeper than that. When you have shooters all around you who can nail contested and open long jumpers, i guess you really don't need to. I just don't think, at least right now, he has tight enough handles where he can maneuver his way around congested traffic in the painted area. and it feels like having a lot of talented shooters on the team masks that one deficiency of his.

there's not a lot of shake to his game at all. you may get one counter move after the initial drive but he's not stop and start like DSJ or keeps you off balance like Fultz. Basically straight line drives. He can stand to get a little lower through traffic, I think his left hand still needs some congestion work, and his attack will be limited without the addition of push, scoops, and floaters.

I personally wouldn't call it a negative that he doesn't go all the way to the cup each time. I honestly think it's more IQ driven than physical capability I think he's driving to suck the defense in and take the best look possible whether that look is his or a teammate's.
I think he's capable of getting to the cup under advantageous situations, I think he picks his spots, I do understand wanting him to attack more often and I agree at times that he should do so but I don't think it's something out of his capability.

This isn't aimed specifically at your analysis at all but the excuses for his shortcomings always seem to revert back to "he doesn't need to" or "he hasn't had to".

At some point the guy is going to have to show and prove. I can't justify drafting a guy that high until it's proven he can or can't execute. This rhetoric has been used regarding him running the PnR effectively, having a mid-range game, being able to get his shot off consistently, and now his handles.

I've been critical of Ball in the past and I'll admit he's won me over a bit recently but I'm going to need to actually see some of these hypothetical skills in action at some point.

Didn't D'Angelo Russel have many of the same criticisms? I know I was definitely leery of his ability to get into the paint

[ItsThatEasy]

there's not a lot of shake to his game at all. you may get one counter move after the initial drive but he's not stop and start like DSJ or keeps you off balance like Fultz. Basically straight line drives. He can stand to get a little lower through traffic, I think his left hand still needs some congestion work, and his attack will be limited without the addition of push, scoops, and floaters.

I personally wouldn't call it a negative that he doesn't go all the way to the cup each time. I honestly think it's more IQ driven than physical capability I think he's driving to suck the defense in and take the best look possible whether that look is his or a teammate's.
I think he's capable of getting to the cup under advantageous situations, I think he picks his spots, I do understand wanting him to attack more often and I agree at times that he should do so but I don't think it's something out of his capability.

This isn't aimed specifically at your analysis at all but the excuses for his shortcomings always seem to revert back to "he doesn't need to" or "he hasn't had to".

At some point the guy is going to have to show and prove. I can't justify drafting a guy that high until it's proven he can or can't execute. This rhetoric has been used regarding him running the PnR effectively, having a mid-range game, being able to get his shot off consistently, and now his handles.

I've been critical of Ball in the past and I'll admit he's won me over a bit recently but I'm going to need to actually see some of these hypothetical skills in action at some point.

Didn't D'Angelo Russel have many of the same criticisms? I know I was definitely leery of his ability to get into the paint

We questioned how D'Angelo's physical abilities would translate to the NBA, specifically his finishing ability. He displayed excellent craftiness and ball handling in college though. The concern wasn't getting to the paint but what he would do once he got there, and the jury is still out on that one tbh.

[greg4012]

This isn't aimed specifically at your analysis at all but the excuses for his shortcomings always seem to revert back to "he doesn't need to" or "he hasn't had to".

At some point the guy is going to have to show and prove. I can't justify drafting a guy that high until it's proven he can or can't execute. This rhetoric has been used regarding him running the PnR effectively, having a mid-range game, being able to get his shot off consistently, and now his handles.

I've been critical of Ball in the past and I'll admit he's won me over a bit recently but I'm going to need to actually see some of these hypothetical skills in action at some point.

Didn't D'Angelo Russel have many of the same criticisms? I know I was definitely leery of his ability to get into the paint

We questioned how D'Angelo's physical abilities would translate to the NBA, specifically his finishing ability. He displayed excellent craftiness and ball handling in college though. The questioned wasn't getting to the paint but what he would do once he got there, which is still up for debate 2 years in.

Then I agree. I actually agreed with much of your original post, as well. Just wanted clarification because while D'Angelo has a solid handle, I did question his ability to even get into the paint. He didn't show much of that in college, and while you would know better than me (you watch him more), I don't see him having shown much of that in the league -- 12.7% of his shots at the rim this season.

I guess part of my point is that, despite that question mark, Russel has proven to be a promising prospect with scoring ability. I wonder if a parallel can be drawn with Ball even if he may not be a slasher. I know there are plenty of other distinctions in their two games. Just bringing up D'Angelo because that was always a concern of mine about his game, yet I'm sure you were perfectly happy using a top 3 pick on him

[ItsThatEasy]

Didn't D'Angelo Russel have many of the same criticisms? I know I was definitely leery of his ability to get into the paint

We questioned how D'Angelo's physical abilities would translate to the NBA, specifically his finishing ability. He displayed excellent craftiness and ball handling in college though. The questioned wasn't getting to the paint but what he would do once he got there, which is still up for debate 2 years in.

Then I agree. I actually agreed with much of your original post, as well. Just wanted clarification because while D'Angelo has a solid handle, I did question his ability to even get into the paint. He didn't show much of that in college, and while you would know better than me (you watch him more), I don't see him having shown much of that in the league -- 12.7% of his shots at the rim this season.

I guess part of my point is that, despite that question mark, Russel has proven to be a promising prospect with scoring ability. I wonder if a parallel can be drawn with Ball even if he may not be a slasher. I know there are plenty of other distinctions in their two games. Just bringing up D'Angelo because that was always a concern of mine about his game, yet I'm sure you were perfectly happy using a top 3 pick on him

That's completely understandable.

The problem with that is D'Angelo showed craftiness with the ball from day 1. That's why he got Harden, Ginobli and a few Curry comparisons. We knew he wasn't the most physically gifted but he always showed an ability to figure out how to get into the lane. We haven't seen much of that from Ball other than straight line speed which is fine in transition, but if we're ignoring D'Angelo's NBA play and focusing on him as a prospect it's night and day with him and Ball finishing wise. Russell compares much more favorably to Fultz in that regard.

[Duke4life831]

I don't know but I'm completely sold on Ball. It all just depends on what type of PG you want. Im going to bring up another old timer as a comparison and thats Stockton. Im not talking style of game but I kind of am. I bring up Stockton because of this, I think Ball is going to be extremely efficient shooting the ball, he doesn't take bad shots just like Stockton (for the era Stockton played in, his TS% is pretty ridiculous). Now I think they do it in a different way but I think Stockton ran that Utah offense to perfection, he did it by always making the smart pass every time and rarely making mistakes, the dude has like a 4/1 career Act/TO ratio which is crazy for his assist volume. I think Ball is going to be the same way, run his offense super efficiently without making that many mistakes. I also think both guys play the game with such a calm demeanor and aren't afraid to make the simple easy play, that their simplistic style kind of doesn't do them justice. Stockton also would've racked up probably 5 1st team all defense if it wasn't for playing the same time as Gary Payton, hes very underrated on that side of the ball. I don't think Ball is going to be that good defensively but I think hes going to be pretty good.

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

[Marcus]

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

[Duke4life831]

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

Yup I know you and I both have been saying from the start of this class talk on here that its really just a preference thing for these PGs. I think they are all elite level prospects just 3 very different type of PGs. It all just depends on what your team needs and wants.

I still say if I'm starting with a blank roster I'm taking DSJ every time. I think he can rack up assists if he gets paired with a nice big like a AD or a Whiteside and he has the ability to take over games scoring as well. He was my favorite prospect before the season and still is.

[Marcus]

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

I still say if I'm starting with a blank roster I'm taking DSJ every time. I think he can rack up assists if he gets paired with a nice big like a AD or a Whiteside and he has the ability to take over games scoring as well. He was my favorite prospect before the season and still is.

oh yeah without question if I'm starting from scratch I'm taking Dennis, giving him the ball, and getting the hell out of the way. Josh would be the only other kid in this class I would feel confident doing that with. I'd have to find some shooters to put around him but everything else is there.

[Duke4life831]

this is what we've been saying all year.

I still say if I'm starting with a blank roster I'm taking DSJ every time. I think he can rack up assists if he gets paired with a nice big like a AD or a Whiteside and he has the ability to take over games scoring as well. He was my favorite prospect before the season and still is.

oh yeah without question if I'm starting from scratch I'm taking Dennis, giving him the ball, and getting the hell out of the way. Josh would be the only other kid in this class I would feel confident doing that with. I'd have to find some shooters to put around him but everything else is there.

Haha and thats where we do differ. Id feel confident doing that with Fultz as well and from the wings id feel more confident giving the ball and saying here you're the centerpiece of our offense to Tatum over Jackson. I really like Jackson as a stat sheet stuffer do it all along the lines of a Iggy, he just hasn't shown me enough offensively especially with that jumper that id be willing to do that with him. But I can definitely see the point of view of why you would, great handle, very underrated vision and passing can finish at the rim as well. If he does get that jumper, he would become a pretty flawless prospect, not too many holes in his game. I just think Tatum is special when it comes to his offensive skill set. I can see him being even better from the mid range than what DeRozan is showing this year. I also have faith that he will have that 3 point range really soon. But I know you question his explosiveness which is a legit question.

[Marcus]

I still say if I'm starting with a blank roster I'm taking DSJ every time. I think he can rack up assists if he gets paired with a nice big like a AD or a Whiteside and he has the ability to take over games scoring as well. He was my favorite prospect before the season and still is.

oh yeah without question if I'm starting from scratch I'm taking Dennis, giving him the ball, and getting the hell out of the way. Josh would be the only other kid in this class I would feel confident doing that with. I'd have to find some shooters to put around him but everything else is there.

Haha and thats where we do differ. Id feel confident doing that with Fultz as well and from the wings id feel more confident giving the ball and saying here you're the centerpiece of our offense to Tatum over Jackson. I really like Jackson as a stat sheet stuffer do it all along the lines of a Iggy, he just hasn't shown me enough offensively especially with that jumper that id be willing to do that with him. But I can definitely see the point of view of why you would, great handle, very underrated vision and passing can finish at the rim as well. If he does get that jumper, he would become a pretty flawless prospect, not too many holes in his game. I just think Tatum is special when it comes to his offensive skill set. I can see him being even better from the mid range than what DeRozan is showing this year. I also have faith that he will have that 3 point range really soon. But I know you question his explosiveness which is a legit question.

I think Fultz and Tatum can be building blocks I'm just not completely sold on them being that right out the gate. Josh's jumper is scary as %$%@#$#@ I'm not going to deny that. especially with his FT% being garbage as well. He gives you sooooo much though outside of that. You mentioned the handle, vision, and finishing already. I wouldn't trust him to catch and shoot anything outside of the paint but his rhythm jumper isn't bad and he's not a bad shot taker so I hold hope there as well. What he does at the line is horrendous and I can't explain that at all, nothing passable about that lol. As far as what he's shown this year, he's taken the backseat to Mason and Graham IMO so much so that they run Josh off curls as the first set play each game just to get him his touch going to the cup. He has pitbull in him though, it's one of those tough sells to try and explain lol.

Kelle I think will need to get used to the physical part of the league and find his spots where he's effective before he becomes the guy in an offense. Just my opinion on it, I do think he will get there though. Tatum I think has lead scorer written all over him as well in time just think he has to adjust to the quickness catching up to his skill level on that end of the floor. Good first step, best footwork I've seen from a wing in a long time, as long as he's not rushed (which he can be prone to from time to time) he's going to be scary from the elbow down. Once that range comes in (which I don't question) it'll get worse.

Can't really argue your choices though. Pretty crazy to actually have enough talent in one draft to say that about. And just to get it back on topic. I might not start a franchise with Lonzo but I'd be damned if I can't drop him in the middle of floundering one and get good results out of it.

[LonZoBallin]

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

I think people are sleeping on Fox. I get because he can't shoot he isn't in the discussion with those 3, but I like his play making ability just as much as DSJ and he has lighting speed. I think even if you back off him in the NBA he'll still be able to beat his man and create. In transition he'll be a nightmare. He'll have top 3 speed from day 1 with play making ability. If he learns to hit open 3's he could be trouble at the next level.

Being Lonzo ball's biggest fan my #1 worry is ball's ability to get into the paint at the next level. That is not an issue at all with Fox and usually guys like this who are lighting fast aren't the best playmakers, fox is. Like I said, if he can learn to hit open 3's look out.

Does anyone know how bad a shooter Fox is? is he Rondo bad?

[Duke4life831]

oh yeah without question if I'm starting from scratch I'm taking Dennis, giving him the ball, and getting the hell out of the way. Josh would be the only other kid in this class I would feel confident doing that with. I'd have to find some shooters to put around him but everything else is there.

Haha and thats where we do differ. Id feel confident doing that with Fultz as well and from the wings id feel more confident giving the ball and saying here you're the centerpiece of our offense to Tatum over Jackson. I really like Jackson as a stat sheet stuffer do it all along the lines of a Iggy, he just hasn't shown me enough offensively especially with that jumper that id be willing to do that with him. But I can definitely see the point of view of why you would, great handle, very underrated vision and passing can finish at the rim as well. If he does get that jumper, he would become a pretty flawless prospect, not too many holes in his game. I just think Tatum is special when it comes to his offensive skill set. I can see him being even better from the mid range than what DeRozan is showing this year. I also have faith that he will have that 3 point range really soon. But I know you question his explosiveness which is a legit question.

I think Fultz and Tatum can be building blocks I'm just not completely sold on them being that right out the gate. Josh's jumper is scary as %$%@#$#@ I'm not going to deny that. especially with his FT% being garbage as well. He gives you sooooo much though outside of that. You mentioned the handle, vision, and finishing already. I wouldn't trust him to catch and shoot anything outside of the paint but his rhythm jumper isn't bad and he's not a bad shot taker so I hold hope there as well. What he does at the line is horrendous and I can't explain that at all, nothing passable about that lol. As far as what he's shown this year, he's taken the backseat to Mason and Graham IMO so much so that they run Josh off curls as the first set play each game just to get him his touch going to the cup. He has pitbull in him though, it's one of those tough sells to try and explain lol.

Kelle I think will need to get used to the physical part of the league and find his spots where he's effective before he becomes the guy in an offense. Just my opinion on it, I do think he will get there though. Tatum I think has lead scorer written all over him as well in time just think he has to adjust to the quickness catching up to his skill level on that end of the floor. Good first step, best footwork I've seen from a wing in a long time, as long as he's not rushed (which he can be prone to from time to time) he's going to be scary from the elbow down. Once that range comes in (which I don't question) it'll get worse.

Can't really argue your choices though. Pretty crazy to actually have enough talent in one draft to say that about. And just to get it back on topic. I might not start a franchise with Lonzo but I'd be damned if I can't drop him in the middle of floundering one and get good results out of it.

Even with Jackson's bad shooting numbers and some games where he barely gets any minutes because of foul trouble I've actually might be most impressed with him out of all the guys. I know I'm in the minority but I expected Tatum to be a good defender so that hasn't caught me off guard. Most guys are doing what I expected them to do and showing the skills I thought they would. I knew Jackson had the handle and was an underrated passer, but even his vision has impressed me so far this year. But the thing that has really made me fall in love with Jackson is how well he moves and cuts without the ball. Hes always been the man so I've never really seen this from him, even on team USA I thought he was just fine off the ball. The dude has been awesome moving off the ball its a skill that I think is going to allow him to still score in the half court even without his jumper and fit into much more offensive schemes.

I could see myself building a team around Lonzo because I think he maybe the easiest to build around. I think hes the type of guy who's going to make everyone playing with him a lot better on offense just because he is going to always hit them when they're open. Like you said he can take a floundering offense and make them good. He may not be the traditional centerpiece but I do think hes extremely easy to build around.

[Marcus]

So if you're looking for like a Kyrie or Lillard type scorer that can take over the game scoring go with Fultz. If you're looking for a PnR maestro go with DSJ. If you're looking for the ultimate floor general and a guy you don't need to count on being you're leading scorer go with Ball. Thats why I think the Suns is such a great fit for him, they got a lot of young guys that look really promising scoring the ball.

this is what we've been saying all year.

I think people are sleeping on Fox. I get because he can't shoot he isn't in the discussion with those 3, but I like his play making ability just as much as DSJ and he has lighting speed. I think even if you back off him in the NBA he'll still be able to beat his man and create. In transition he'll be a nightmare. He'll have top 3 speed from day 1 with play making ability. If he learns to hit open 3's he could be trouble at the next level.

Being Lonzo ball's biggest fan my #1 worry is ball's ability to get into the paint at the next level. That is not an issue at all with Fox and usually guys like this who are lighting fast aren't the best playmakers, fox is. Like I said, if he can learn to hit open 3's look out.

Does anyone know how bad a shooter Fox is? is he Rondo bad?

Fox does tend to get lost in the shuffle. Not sure what the deal is with his jumper. Shoots it with confidence, good form, just bad results.