PG Thread: Oh no, we suck again!

[thebuzzardman]

I consider this game a favor.

I was guilty of being overenthusiastic in the preseason and after 2 wins.
Sure, this might be overly negative, but I don't think so.

After being a consumer of this sports thing for a while, I've gotten decent at figuring out early when it's not a good thing to get too invested in a team.

Take the Jets, for example. I knew they would be pretty bad. Tons of growing pains. Rookie QB who needed more than a little refinement. But I figured, new coach, new offensive coordinator, new QB, some offensive players drafted for once, it could be "ok" in a certain developmental kind of way.

It took 1/2 of football to see the coach, offensive coordinator and QB were in completely over their head, that the team would suck, not just in that "rebuilding" sort of way, but truly suck. And I was a Joe Douglas supporter up to that minute. Then I realized, in spite of the years of suck that he inherited, he too, sucked. So I quickly divested myself of interest in the season, and like I expected, I was completely correct to do so.
They aren't even an NFL team.

Knicks, it's a little different. I thought they'd be anywhere from as high as 4th (unlikely) to 7th, depending on how some games go, luck, injuries etc. Felt like they were building something. And they might be. But this season isn't really going to be that good.
It's a mediocre playoff team again. It's just a different flavor than the almost all defense, no offense version from last year.
This year it's some defense, some offense, to achieve a similar level of high level mediocrity.

I mean, being mediocre is nice. Two consecutive years of being mediocre is nice. Beats 10+ years of truly SUCKING, interrupted by like 1.5 seasons of "ok".

But a legitimate good team would have taken the chance to notch another win. Had the talent to answer a scrub team's "anger".

This team just isn't that good. It's ok.
Leon Rose better be a master wheeler dealer, because I don't see much in the way of compelling youth the Knicks have to put in a trade.
RJ is a role player. In fact, he's a borderline starter on a truly good team. Obi, everyone is jizzing themselves because he went from abjectly awful to barely decent. IQ is ok.
I mean, it's fine. Knicks didn't totally blow the picks. Part of it is what draft they were in etc. A team has to start somewhere, and at least the Knicks have some cost controlled young guys.
But the team isn't all that. Basically, minus Thibs, it's not even better than what the Nets had before signing the Weird Brothers.
And I'm not Net Nuthugger.

Knicks need a trade in the worst way. Hopefully they'll be patient and execute it at the right time.
40 win team.

[god shammgod]

I consider this game a favor.

I was guilty of being overenthusiastic in the preseason and after 2 wins.
Sure, this might be overly negative, but I don't think so.

After being a consumer of this sports thing for a while, I've gotten decent at figuring out early when it's not a good thing to get too invested in a team.

Take the Jets, for example. I knew they would be pretty bad. Tons of growing pains. Rookie QB who needed more than a little refinement. But I figured, new coach, new offensive coordinator, new QB, some offensive players drafted for once, it could be "ok" in a certain developmental kind of way.

It took 1/2 of football to see the coach, offensive coordinator and QB were in completely over their head, that the team would suck, not just in that "rebuilding" sort of way, but truly suck. And I was a Joe Douglas supporter up to that minute. Then I realized, in spite of the years of suck that he inherited, he too, sucked. So I quickly divested myself of interest in the season, and like I expected, I was completely correct to do so.
They aren't even an NFL team.

Knicks, it's a little different. I thought they'd be anywhere from as high as 4th (unlikely) to 7th, depending on how some games go, luck, injuries etc. Felt like they were building something. And they might be. But this season isn't really going to be that good.
It's a mediocre playoff team again. It's just a different flavor than the almost all defense, no offense version from last year.
This year it's some defense, some offense, to achieve a similar level of high level mediocrity.

I mean, being mediocre is nice. Two consecutive years of being mediocre is nice. Beats 10+ years of truly SUCKING, interrupted by like 1.5 seasons of "ok".

But a legitimate good team would have taken the chance to notch another win. Had the talent to answer a scrub team's "anger".

This team just isn't that good. It's ok.
Leon Rose better be a master wheeler dealer, because I don't see much in the way of compelling youth the Knicks have to put in a trade.
RJ is a role player. In fact, he's a borderline starter on a truly good team. Obi, everyone is jizzing themselves because he went from abjectly awful to barely decent. IQ is ok.
I mean, it's fine. Knicks didn't totally blow the picks. Part of it is what draft they were in etc. A team has to start somewhere, and at least the Knicks have some cost controlled young guys.
But the team isn't all that. Basically, minus Thibs, it's not even better than what the Nets had before signing the Weird Brothers.
And I'm not Net Nuthugger.

Knicks need a trade in the worst way. Hopefully they'll be patient and execute it at the right time.
40 win team.

the character buzz is funny but honest, reflective buzz is my favorite buzz. and completely right. the one additional issue i have is that we locked into this team longer contractually than we did last years. which means if a trade doesn't come up we're forced to do this again next year too. we'll see though. maybe a trade will arise at some point and we're just bidding our time until then and that was the plan all along.

[thebuzzardman]

I consider this game a favor.

I was guilty of being overenthusiastic in the preseason and after 2 wins.
Sure, this might be overly negative, but I don't think so.

After being a consumer of this sports thing for a while, I've gotten decent at figuring out early when it's not a good thing to get too invested in a team.

Take the Jets, for example. I knew they would be pretty bad. Tons of growing pains. Rookie QB who needed more than a little refinement. But I figured, new coach, new offensive coordinator, new QB, some offensive players drafted for once, it could be "ok" in a certain developmental kind of way.

It took 1/2 of football to see the coach, offensive coordinator and QB were in completely over their head, that the team would suck, not just in that "rebuilding" sort of way, but truly suck. And I was a Joe Douglas supporter up to that minute. Then I realized, in spite of the years of suck that he inherited, he too, sucked. So I quickly divested myself of interest in the season, and like I expected, I was completely correct to do so.
They aren't even an NFL team.

Knicks, it's a little different. I thought they'd be anywhere from as high as 4th (unlikely) to 7th, depending on how some games go, luck, injuries etc. Felt like they were building something. And they might be. But this season isn't really going to be that good.
It's a mediocre playoff team again. It's just a different flavor than the almost all defense, no offense version from last year.
This year it's some defense, some offense, to achieve a similar level of high level mediocrity.

I mean, being mediocre is nice. Two consecutive years of being mediocre is nice. Beats 10+ years of truly SUCKING, interrupted by like 1.5 seasons of "ok".

But a legitimate good team would have taken the chance to notch another win. Had the talent to answer a scrub team's "anger".

This team just isn't that good. It's ok.
Leon Rose better be a master wheeler dealer, because I don't see much in the way of compelling youth the Knicks have to put in a trade.
RJ is a role player. In fact, he's a borderline starter on a truly good team. Obi, everyone is jizzing themselves because he went from abjectly awful to barely decent. IQ is ok.
I mean, it's fine. Knicks didn't totally blow the picks. Part of it is what draft they were in etc. A team has to start somewhere, and at least the Knicks have some cost controlled young guys.
But the team isn't all that. Basically, minus Thibs, it's not even better than what the Nets had before signing the Weird Brothers.
And I'm not Net Nuthugger.

Knicks need a trade in the worst way. Hopefully they'll be patient and execute it at the right time.
40 win team.

the character buzz is funny but honest, reflective buzz is my favorite buzz. and completely right. the one additional issue i have is that we locked into this team longer contractually than we did last years. which means if a trade doesn't come up we're forced to do this again next year too. we'll see though. maybe a trade will arise at some point and we're just bidding our time until then and that was the plan all along.

Ha! And thanks.

I get this attitude of mine might be the result of a character flaw. Lord knows, like most people, I've got a couple.

I'm just readjusting my attitude quickly. It's not going to be an exactly fun season. It's not going to be a "sit back, crack the knuckles, open a brew and enjoy the wins" kind of season. It's going to be the Knicks aggravating and annoying the sh*t out of us nearly every game kind of season, culminating in a .500 record.

I'm going to proceed accordingly, mind wise.

Might ride the Cadillac Ntilikina thing though.

[thebuzzardman]

Also, regarding locked in - I have to assume the Knicks were targeting a certain year of FA where the contracts will be enticing (in theory) to a team that was told by their star that he isn't interested in returning. Or, a guy under contract but the contract is shorter and trade more likely.

I have no idea who they have in mind but it feels like KAT in two years, because he's good, but does he really fit with Randle? So, perfect Knicksian move.

So yeah, not wild about the idea of two consecutive years of Burks/Noel - Rose has been good, Randle is a piece, I guess.

I guess the though process is that guys like Noel and Burks will be here for a year anyway, the 2nd year is sending a positive signal around the league (maybe), they are punting on next year's FA (obviously), prepping for 1.5 years away deadline deal of some kind, based on the undercover intel of spymaster WWW and, that Burks/Noel are movable for slightly better players by attaching several of those Aller 2nd rounders...?

[DaGawd]

I consider this game a favor.

I was guilty of being overenthusiastic in the preseason and after 2 wins.
Sure, this might be overly negative, but I don't think so.

After being a consumer of this sports thing for a while, I've gotten decent at figuring out early when it's not a good thing to get too invested in a team.

Take the Jets, for example. I knew they would be pretty bad. Tons of growing pains. Rookie QB who needed more than a little refinement. But I figured, new coach, new offensive coordinator, new QB, some offensive players drafted for once, it could be "ok" in a certain developmental kind of way.

It took 1/2 of football to see the coach, offensive coordinator and QB were in completely over their head, that the team would suck, not just in that "rebuilding" sort of way, but truly suck. And I was a Joe Douglas supporter up to that minute. Then I realized, in spite of the years of suck that he inherited, he too, sucked. So I quickly divested myself of interest in the season, and like I expected, I was completely correct to do so.
They aren't even an NFL team.

Knicks, it's a little different. I thought they'd be anywhere from as high as 4th (unlikely) to 7th, depending on how some games go, luck, injuries etc. Felt like they were building something. And they might be. But this season isn't really going to be that good.
It's a mediocre playoff team again. It's just a different flavor than the almost all defense, no offense version from last year.
This year it's some defense, some offense, to achieve a similar level of high level mediocrity.

I mean, being mediocre is nice. Two consecutive years of being mediocre is nice. Beats 10+ years of truly SUCKING, interrupted by like 1.5 seasons of "ok".

But a legitimate good team would have taken the chance to notch another win. Had the talent to answer a scrub team's "anger".

This team just isn't that good. It's ok.
Leon Rose better be a master wheeler dealer, because I don't see much in the way of compelling youth the Knicks have to put in a trade.
RJ is a role player. In fact, he's a borderline starter on a truly good team. Obi, everyone is jizzing themselves because he went from abjectly awful to barely decent. IQ is ok.
I mean, it's fine. Knicks didn't totally blow the picks. Part of it is what draft they were in etc. A team has to start somewhere, and at least the Knicks have some cost controlled young guys.
But the team isn't all that. Basically, minus Thibs, it's not even better than what the Nets had before signing the Weird Brothers.
And I'm not Net Nuthugger.

Knicks need a trade in the worst way. Hopefully they'll be patient and execute it at the right time.
40 win team.

the character buzz is funny but honest, reflective buzz is my favorite buzz. and completely right. the one additional issue i have is that we locked into this team longer contractually than we did last years. which means if a trade doesn't come up we're forced to do this again next year too. we'll see though. maybe a trade will arise at some point and we're just bidding our time until then and that was the plan all along.

That ADep7 poster seems to have some kind of plug in the organization and claims Leon has his eyes on a few guards and RJ would be added to a trade with ease.. so let’s see. I could definitely see it being true. Leon didn’t draft RJ.. he has no special connection to him

[thebuzzardman]

I consider this game a favor.

I was guilty of being overenthusiastic in the preseason and after 2 wins.
Sure, this might be overly negative, but I don't think so.

After being a consumer of this sports thing for a while, I've gotten decent at figuring out early when it's not a good thing to get too invested in a team.

Take the Jets, for example. I knew they would be pretty bad. Tons of growing pains. Rookie QB who needed more than a little refinement. But I figured, new coach, new offensive coordinator, new QB, some offensive players drafted for once, it could be "ok" in a certain developmental kind of way.

It took 1/2 of football to see the coach, offensive coordinator and QB were in completely over their head, that the team would suck, not just in that "rebuilding" sort of way, but truly suck. And I was a Joe Douglas supporter up to that minute. Then I realized, in spite of the years of suck that he inherited, he too, sucked. So I quickly divested myself of interest in the season, and like I expected, I was completely correct to do so.
They aren't even an NFL team.

Knicks, it's a little different. I thought they'd be anywhere from as high as 4th (unlikely) to 7th, depending on how some games go, luck, injuries etc. Felt like they were building something. And they might be. But this season isn't really going to be that good.
It's a mediocre playoff team again. It's just a different flavor than the almost all defense, no offense version from last year.
This year it's some defense, some offense, to achieve a similar level of high level mediocrity.

I mean, being mediocre is nice. Two consecutive years of being mediocre is nice. Beats 10+ years of truly SUCKING, interrupted by like 1.5 seasons of "ok".

But a legitimate good team would have taken the chance to notch another win. Had the talent to answer a scrub team's "anger".

This team just isn't that good. It's ok.
Leon Rose better be a master wheeler dealer, because I don't see much in the way of compelling youth the Knicks have to put in a trade.
RJ is a role player. In fact, he's a borderline starter on a truly good team. Obi, everyone is jizzing themselves because he went from abjectly awful to barely decent. IQ is ok.
I mean, it's fine. Knicks didn't totally blow the picks. Part of it is what draft they were in etc. A team has to start somewhere, and at least the Knicks have some cost controlled young guys.
But the team isn't all that. Basically, minus Thibs, it's not even better than what the Nets had before signing the Weird Brothers.
And I'm not Net Nuthugger.

Knicks need a trade in the worst way. Hopefully they'll be patient and execute it at the right time.
40 win team.

the character buzz is funny but honest, reflective buzz is my favorite buzz. and completely right. the one additional issue i have is that we locked into this team longer contractually than we did last years. which means if a trade doesn't come up we're forced to do this again next year too. we'll see though. maybe a trade will arise at some point and we're just bidding our time until then and that was the plan all along.

That ADep7 poster seems to have some kind of plug in the organization and claims Leon has his eyes on a few guards and RJ would be added to a trade with ease.. so let’s see. I could definitely see it being true. Leon didn’t draft RJ.. he has no special connection to him

If RJ could get a firmware upgrade he'd be a keeper, but with the chip shortage don't see it happening so might as well trade.

[HerSports85]

We have to get a PG who can also defend. I'm mean, Cole Anthony? Really?

We already have 2 backcourt defenders. They are just stuck on the bench.

[duetta]

This could prove a 'good' loss. The team was perhaps believing its press clippings going into it - and they were upset by a young squad with a lot to prove.

I don't think that we'll shoot this bad most nights - but sometimes any ugly loss can serve as a wake-up call.

If Thibs plans on running the first team offense through Randle, then they have room to break-in McBride in at the point. And if IQ's struggles continue, break-in Grimes at the 2-guard.

If they can win on Tuesday, then this loss is nothing but a learning experience. Had they gone 3-0 and lost to Philly, those three wins would have looked suspect anyway.

[thebuzzardman]

Start Rose. Start Grimes. RJ as 6th man for "defense". Unfortunately, for optics, Kemba has to play, so backup PG it is. Burks or IQ to backup Fournier. Pick one. Probably should be Burks.

[thebuzzardman]

Walker likes to dominate the ball. He's a poor fit with Randle. Hate to break up 2nd unit chemistry but maybe Walker has to microwave scoring PG off the bench.

[thebuzzardman]

The last 5 #3picks….

2021 Evan Mobley
2020 Lamelo ball
2019 RJ Barrett
2018 Luka Doncic
2017 Jayson Tatum
2016 Jaylen Brown

Like come the **** on!!!!!!!!!

The one time we get the chance we get stuck with the scrub!!!!!!!!!!!

Watch on YouTube

[aq_ua]

Walker likes to dominate the ball. He's a poor fit with Randle. Hate to break up 2nd unit chemistry but maybe Walker has to microwave scoring PG off the bench.

Is that it though? Derrick Rose is pretty ball dominant, but he doesn't seem to bog down the offense. I think it's more about Walker's inability to break down defenses, in both pick and roll situations and off the dribble. He isn't making the game easier for anyone, and in fact is reliant upon everyone else to create opportunities for him. Hopefully he gets better over time, but it's going to continue being an issue for a while.

[Chanel Bomber]

Kemba is the most glaring issue. It can be fixed without a roster overhaul. It needs to be.

The deeper, more meaningful problem is the Randle-RJ tandem.

Randle is not efficient enough to be a star player for this team, let alone the face of the franchise. RJ is not efficient enough for a role player.

So the Knicks actually have to rely on other players to score efficiently: average to bad starters (Fournier, Kemba) and the bench.

That's why the stats unequivocally show that the bench has been carrying this team since last year. The starting line-up is just average, it doesn't make much difference against its competition on average. Our bench led by Rose is what really wins us these games most of the time.

The Knicks will not contend in the East with Randle-RJ in the starting 5. They're too inefficient together. Leon Rose has to make a big trade, or this team will be just another treadmill Eastern Conference team. This is what we are at the moment.

[Reign23]

what a stinkbomb.

Rose and Mitch were the only two that didn't bust completely yesterday.
RJ has to get out of his shooting slump. he did a good job creating shots for others and himself, but couldn*t sink any of them and acutally got cooked on defense.

Randle had the worst 30/16 game I've ever seen. He was in head-down-hero-ball mode all night.

little bit of a reality check, but maybe this was needed. onto the next one!

[Deeeez Knicks]

Kemba is the most glaring issue. It can be fixed without a roster overhaul. It needs to be.

The deeper, more meaningful problem is the Randle-RJ tandem.

Randle is not efficient enough to be a star player for this team, let alone the face of the franchise. RJ is not efficient enough for a role player.

So the Knicks actually have to rely on other players to score efficiently: average to bad starters (Fournier, Kemba) and the bench.

That's why the stats unequivocally show that the bench has been carrying this team since last year. The starting line-up is just average, it doesn't make much difference against its competition on average. Our bench led by Rose is what really wins us these games most of the time.

The Knicks will not contend in the East with Randle-RJ in the starting 5. They're too inefficient together. Leon Rose has to make a big trade, or this team will be just another treadmill Eastern Conference team. This is what we are at the moment.

The Knicks bench is normally good, but to be fair we had a 6 point lead going into the 4th and the Magic were up by 6 when the starters came back. The bench played really bad in that stretch.

The starters outside of Mitch didnt play great either so not putting it all on the bench. This one seemed like a team effort in the loss

[Adelheid]

Qtr by qtr, knicks won
except the 4th

Thibs may be doing some experimenting sitting Evan for too long and having heroball Burks out there.
Methinks they may need to trade Burks sometime in the future. I see him as the clog in the backcourt glut.

[robillionaire]

I consider this game a favor.

I was guilty of being overenthusiastic in the preseason and after 2 wins.
Sure, this might be overly negative, but I don't think so.

After being a consumer of this sports thing for a while, I've gotten decent at figuring out early when it's not a good thing to get too invested in a team.

Take the Jets, for example. I knew they would be pretty bad. Tons of growing pains. Rookie QB who needed more than a little refinement. But I figured, new coach, new offensive coordinator, new QB, some offensive players drafted for once, it could be "ok" in a certain developmental kind of way.

It took 1/2 of football to see the coach, offensive coordinator and QB were in completely over their head, that the team would suck, not just in that "rebuilding" sort of way, but truly suck. And I was a Joe Douglas supporter up to that minute. Then I realized, in spite of the years of suck that he inherited, he too, sucked. So I quickly divested myself of interest in the season, and like I expected, I was completely correct to do so.
They aren't even an NFL team.

Knicks, it's a little different. I thought they'd be anywhere from as high as 4th (unlikely) to 7th, depending on how some games go, luck, injuries etc. Felt like they were building something. And they might be. But this season isn't really going to be that good.
It's a mediocre playoff team again. It's just a different flavor than the almost all defense, no offense version from last year.
This year it's some defense, some offense, to achieve a similar level of high level mediocrity.

I mean, being mediocre is nice. Two consecutive years of being mediocre is nice. Beats 10+ years of truly SUCKING, interrupted by like 1.5 seasons of "ok".

But a legitimate good team would have taken the chance to notch another win. Had the talent to answer a scrub team's "anger".

This team just isn't that good. It's ok.
Leon Rose better be a master wheeler dealer, because I don't see much in the way of compelling youth the Knicks have to put in a trade.
RJ is a role player. In fact, he's a borderline starter on a truly good team. Obi, everyone is jizzing themselves because he went from abjectly awful to barely decent. IQ is ok.
I mean, it's fine. Knicks didn't totally blow the picks. Part of it is what draft they were in etc. A team has to start somewhere, and at least the Knicks have some cost controlled young guys.
But the team isn't all that. Basically, minus Thibs, it's not even better than what the Nets had before signing the Weird Brothers.
And I'm not Net Nuthugger.

Knicks need a trade in the worst way. Hopefully they'll be patient and execute it at the right time.
40 win team.

This is pretty fair though. I mean nobody really thought this was a championship team, right? I was just hoping they'd make the playoffs again, which I still think they can do. Unless we get a trade for a superstar in here that's about the most we can really hope for.

[QueensG718]

You know it's bad when Wagner postered obi lol

[QueensG718]

We needed this loss as a wake up call. I think we got cute and lackadaisical starting 2-0. We have alot of work to do. RJ got to wake up. He's been disappointing so far

[robillionaire]

it's ok. the 72-10 bulls lost to the 21-61 raptors. we should resume steamrolling the league after this