FIRE WELTMAN

[eyriq]

I think he should be allowed to see this rebuild through. He cleaned up Hennigan's mess and is working on his own build now. Let the man cook.

[thelead]

I think he should be allowed to see this rebuild through. He cleaned up Hennigan's mess and is working on his own build now. Let the man cook.

He walked away from the stove while the burners were on. Let him cook? He’s going to burn the house down

[eyriq]

I think he should be allowed to see this rebuild through. He cleaned up Hennigan's mess and is working on his own build now. Let the man cook.

He walked away from the stove while the burners were on. Let him cook? He’s going to burn the house down

+12, +13 wins with a core 22 and under. He was cooking as recently as last season. Injuries have removed core pieces for a significant amount of time. He deserves some grace. He says he favors continuity when things are going well, and will make moves now that it isn't.

[SloNick Russia]

Jett pick still was a huge blow. AB choice was fine but Weltman allowed Juwan Howard to sell him Jett potential mirage.
The correct choice would be Whitmore, who was MOKed Top 10 anyway and is an instant offense talent. We could really use his type now. Instead we reached for Jett whos only plus is that his shot form looks awesome when he misses.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

Jett pick still was a huge blow. AB choice was fine but Weltman allowed Juwan Howard to sell him Jett potential mirage.
The correct choice would be Whitmore, who was MOKed Top 10 anyway and is an instant offense talent. We could really use his type now. Instead we reached for Jett whos only plus is that his shot form looks awesome when he misses.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, the Jett pick is a huge bummer. Gradey, Keyonte, or Whitmore would be more appetizing.

When I think about Weltman's strategy I don't really disagree with much. Physical gifts over skill makes sense to me, continuity over tinkering makes sense to me, organic over trades makes sense to me, etc. Honestly he's the kind of GM I like.

John Gabriel was one of our worst gm's and our best builds have come from the organic approach for the most part.

Most of the people that hate on Weltman want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They effectively want to pressure the org to make the same mistakes Hennigan made. Hell to the no on that.

[Fortune Teller]

Jett pick still was a huge blow. AB choice was fine but Weltman allowed Juwan Howard to sell him Jett potential mirage.
The correct choice would be Whitmore, who was MOKed Top 10 anyway and is an instant offense talent. We could really use his type now. Instead we reached for Jett whos only plus is that his shot form looks awesome when he misses.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, the Jett pick is a huge bummer. Gradey, Keyonte, or Whitmore would be more appetizing.

When I think about Weltman's strategy I don't really disagree with much. Physical gifts over skill makes sense to me, continuity over tinkering makes sense to me, organic over trades makes sense to me, etc. Honestly he's the kind of GM I like.

John Gabriel was one of our worst gm's and our best builds have come from the organic approach for the most part.

Most of the people that hate on Weltman want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They effectively want to pressure the org to make the same mistakes Hennigan made. Hell to the no on that.

You can add a big piece without throwing the baby out with the bath water. For example, Otis Smith added Rashard Lewis to the organic foundation of Dwight and Jameer. Gabriel added Horace Grant to the organic foundation of Shaq and Penny. You seem to be advocating for doing nothing and hoping the organic foundation continues to grow without help.

[eyriq]

Jett pick still was a huge blow. AB choice was fine but Weltman allowed Juwan Howard to sell him Jett potential mirage.
The correct choice would be Whitmore, who was MOKed Top 10 anyway and is an instant offense talent. We could really use his type now. Instead we reached for Jett whos only plus is that his shot form looks awesome when he misses.

Sent from my SM-S928B using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, the Jett pick is a huge bummer. Gradey, Keyonte, or Whitmore would be more appetizing.

When I think about Weltman's strategy I don't really disagree with much. Physical gifts over skill makes sense to me, continuity over tinkering makes sense to me, organic over trades makes sense to me, etc. Honestly he's the kind of GM I like.

John Gabriel was one of our worst gm's and our best builds have come from the organic approach for the most part.

Most of the people that hate on Weltman want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They effectively want to pressure the org to make the same mistakes Hennigan made. Hell to the no on that.

You can add a big piece without throwing the baby out with the bath water. For example, Otis Smith added Rashard Lewis to the organic foundation of Dwight and Jameer. Gabriel added Horace Grant to the organic foundation of Shaq and Penny. You seem to be advocating for doing nothing and hoping the organic foundation continues to grow without help.

Not at all.

I think the three year plan is to have Jett replace Cole and AB replace KCP.

JI and WCJ are locked up long-term, Goga for two more seasons. The team has an option on Moe.

I would pivot, trading Cole, WCJ, JI, and Jett + draft equity for two starters and a bench scorer. I'd cut and resign Moe.

[Bensational]

Yeah, the Jett pick is a huge bummer. Gradey, Keyonte, or Whitmore would be more appetizing.

When I think about Weltman's strategy I don't really disagree with much. Physical gifts over skill makes sense to me, continuity over tinkering makes sense to me, organic over trades makes sense to me, etc. Honestly he's the kind of GM I like.

John Gabriel was one of our worst gm's and our best builds have come from the organic approach for the most part.

Most of the people that hate on Weltman want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They effectively want to pressure the org to make the same mistakes Hennigan made. Hell to the no on that.

You can add a big piece without throwing the baby out with the bath water. For example, Otis Smith added Rashard Lewis to the organic foundation of Dwight and Jameer. Gabriel added Horace Grant to the organic foundation of Shaq and Penny. You seem to be advocating for doing nothing and hoping the organic foundation continues to grow without help.

Not at all.

I think the three year plan is to have Jett replace Cole and AB replace KCP.

JI and WCJ are locked up long-term, Goga for two more seasons. The team has an option on Moe.

I would pivot, trading Cole, WCJ, JI, and Jett + draft equity for two starters and a bench scorer. I'd cut and resign Moe.

KCP, Isaac, WCJ and Cole combine for $60M worth of salary next season and $66M the following season.

That’s a lot of money tied up in inconsistent role players, one of which is only playing under 10mpg lately. I think we can consolidate for an upgrade and find better value role players to fill out any gaps.

[Skybox]

Yeah, the Jett pick is a huge bummer. Gradey, Keyonte, or Whitmore would be more appetizing.

When I think about Weltman's strategy I don't really disagree with much. Physical gifts over skill makes sense to me, continuity over tinkering makes sense to me, organic over trades makes sense to me, etc. Honestly he's the kind of GM I like.

John Gabriel was one of our worst gm's and our best builds have come from the organic approach for the most part.

Most of the people that hate on Weltman want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They effectively want to pressure the org to make the same mistakes Hennigan made. Hell to the no on that.

You can add a big piece without throwing the baby out with the bath water. For example, Otis Smith added Rashard Lewis to the organic foundation of Dwight and Jameer. Gabriel added Horace Grant to the organic foundation of Shaq and Penny. You seem to be advocating for doing nothing and hoping the organic foundation continues to grow without help.

Not at all.

I think the three year plan is to have Jett replace Cole and AB replace KCP.

You must think GMs live to be 100…you don’t get to do your job 3 out of 5 years in this highly competitive, highly visible, highly rewarded position. When you let off the gas, you’re out.

[drsd]

KCP, Isaac, WCJ and Cole combine for $60M worth of salary next season and $66M the following season.

That’s a lot of money tied up in inconsistent role players, one of which is only playing under 10mpg lately. I think we can consolidate for an upgrade and find better value role players to fill out any gaps.

I was super high on Caldwell-Pope being exactly the kind of player the Magic needed, and assumed that Carter would be a league average C. (I never had any hope for Issac making a positive contribution). What do I know? Guess I am not NBA-GM material.

Now the Magic is in this weird space where Bitadze is a better fit as a starter but that Carter on the bench makes less sense.

Plus, it is insane to have Anthony and Black on a roster together.

Taken together the Magic could really look to a reset on trying to get a "Caldwell-Pope". It will include draft capital. But Caldwell-Pope, Isaac, Anthony, Carter, Howard, two 2025 FRPs and the 2027 FRP are all on the table for a consolidation upgrade at guard.

Seriously: what can the trade value be for Collin Sexton, Grayson Allen, Anfernee Simons or Luke Kennard actually be?

Heck, even Max Strus. I'm not asking about a world-generational talent here. Just being "better".

[drsd]

I'd cut and resign Moe.

This will be very interesting for the off-season. His 11M is indeed a club option. For me waiving him only makes sense in a restruction.

For example: an injury projected 3-year contract at 24M. At this point, M-Wagner will never again be considered as a MLE type, so he shouldn't be paid as one. That said, he's still a lot more than a LLE type. And, the brothers make each other work hard. Not interested here in breaking that up.

[Skybox]

I'd cut and resign Moe.

This will be very interesting for the off-season. His 11M is indeed a club option. For me waiving him only makes sense in a restruction.

For example: an injury projected 3-year contract at 24M. At this point, M-Wagner will never again be considered as a MLE type, so he shouldn't be paid as one. That said, he's still a lot more than a LLE type. And, the brothers make each other work hard. Not interested here in breaking that up.

Simons or Claxton or Nembhard should be making our KCP money
KCP should be making Moe money
Moe should be making Gary money
Gary and Cole should be making Caleb money
That’s how you build a viable roster

[cedric76]

We have enough ammunition this summer to get one of the following (without overpaying):

Colin sexton- Plays hard on both end of the floor, can spread the floor and handle the ball and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Coby white - very good guard that can spread the floor and get buckets and his expiring next season (I think Bulls want to build around him and Giddey))

Anfernee Simons - Volume 3pt shooter that doesnt play D but can spread the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Kevin Huerter - 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Grayson Allen- 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor, he still has 3 yrs on his contract so i m sure phoenix will want to dump his contract this summer after they trade KD

If Wepark fail to get one of those guys, they we can start talking, until then, they dont deserve to get fired

[eyriq]

We have enough ammunition this summer to get one of the following (without overpaying):

Colin sexton- Plays hard on both end of the floor, can spread the floor and handle the ball and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Coby white - very good guard that can spread the floor and get buckets and his expiring next season (I think Bulls want to build around him and Giddey))

Anfernee Simons - Volume 3pt shooter that doesnt play D but can spread the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Kevin Huerter - 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Grayson Allen- 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor, he still has 3 yrs on his contract so i m sure phoenix will want to dump his contract this summer after they trade KD

If Wepark fail to get one of those guys, they we can start talking, until then, they dont deserve to get fired

Terrific target list.

[OrlChamps2030]

We have enough ammunition this summer to get one of the following (without overpaying):

Colin sexton- Plays hard on both end of the floor, can spread the floor and handle the ball and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Coby white - very good guard that can spread the floor and get buckets and his expiring next season (I think Bulls want to build around him and Giddey))

Anfernee Simons - Volume 3pt shooter that doesnt play D but can spread the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Kevin Huerter - 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Grayson Allen- 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor, he still has 3 yrs on his contract so i m sure phoenix will want to dump his contract this summer after they trade KD

If Wepark fail to get one of those guys, they we can start talking, until then, they dont deserve to get fired

I think the board has been calling for every one of those guys for 1+ seasons.

WePark already failed. The goal of this season was to be a competitive playoff team and they went into the season with a guard rotation of Suggs/KCP/AB/Cole/Jett/Gary Harris. And doubled down on this group again for the playoffs.

Some poster’s expectations have become so low in the Post-D12 era.

[Skybox]

We have enough ammunition this summer to get one of the following (without overpaying):

Colin sexton- Plays hard on both end of the floor, can spread the floor and handle the ball and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Coby white - very good guard that can spread the floor and get buckets and his expiring next season (I think Bulls want to build around him and Giddey))

Anfernee Simons - Volume 3pt shooter that doesnt play D but can spread the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Kevin Huerter - 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Grayson Allen- 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor, he still has 3 yrs on his contract so i m sure phoenix will want to dump his contract this summer after they trade KD

If Wepark fail to get one of those guys, they we can start talking, until then, they dont deserve to get fired

Isn’t that the same list I’ve been posting twice a day for 2 years?

Isn’t this where you jump in and say “no way we’re trading all that for a rental” or “that guy is a traffic cone on defense”?

#ITSNOT2k. #TrustWeltman #organicgrowth #ABFORPREZ

[JoshuaPotter]

We have enough ammunition this summer to get one of the following (without overpaying):

Colin sexton- Plays hard on both end of the floor, can spread the floor and handle the ball and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Coby white - very good guard that can spread the floor and get buckets and his expiring next season (I think Bulls want to build around him and Giddey))

Anfernee Simons - Volume 3pt shooter that doesnt play D but can spread the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Kevin Huerter - 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor and his expiring next season (will be on trading block this summer)

Grayson Allen- 3 Pt specialist that plays hard on both end of the floor, he still has 3 yrs on his contract so i m sure phoenix will want to dump his contract this summer after they trade KD

If Wepark fail to get one of those guys, they we can start talking, until then, they dont deserve to get fired

Isn’t that the same list I’ve been posting twice a day for 2 years?

Isn’t this where you jump in and say “no way we’re trading all that for a rental” or “that guy is a traffic cone on defense”?

#ITSNOT2k. #TrustWeltman #organicgrowth #ABFORPREZ

Unfortunately the evidence is overwhelming if not damning. A retool is basically needed. You can't retool properly if your idea is just doing it with picks. That would be the way to go if we were winning 50 games this year. Yet, we aren't.

Again, my target person was FVV two seasons ago. I thought FVV + Paolo + Franz + Suggs would be monstrous. Yet, we basically did nothing or doubled no, tripled down on the defense G backcourt.

Our pick will not presumably be high enough to nab enough talent to get an instant contributor.

[Fortune Teller]

You can't just look to improve the roster when you: a) feel like you're ready; or, b) have no other choice. I cannot stress enough how much Jeff frittered away golden opportunities the last 2 summers. Why did he extend Isaac and give him a one-season raise (ostensibly to hit the salary floor?) when his contract was non-guaranteed? We could've been done with his 8 mpg production and used that $25 million on anyone else besides him. Why did he spend $22 million on KCP, another defense-first guard with limited offensive game. More defense was not even close to a priority. Why did he extend Wendell, whose skills have declined every season he's been here? Why did he use the #6 and #11 picks in 2023 when the last thing we needed was more youth? Why did he use the #6 pick on AB, another defense-first guard with skills that can be found in the second round? Why did he even consider drafting Jett Howard, much less actually do it? All of these decisions came in the last 2 summers and Jeff's not going to have anywhere close to those opportunities this summer. He's painted himself into a corner and unless he's going to suddenly flip a switch and start trading draft picks, how do we improve? And don't even say "trade Cole or JI or Jett" because nobody wants our trash.

[Fortune Teller]

p.s. Fire Weltman

[drsd]

Simons or Claxton or Nembhard should be making our KCP money
KCP should be making Moe money
Moe should be making Gary money
Gary and Cole should be making Caleb money
That’s how you build a viable roster

And-1

Simons is making Caldwell-Pope money and the salary part of a trade with Portland is thus easy.

To your list, the salary structure of the team allows these sorts of contracts moving forward. We have to remember, the Magic HAD to spend money to get to the min-salary level. BUT knew that 100M+++ a season would soon be tied in to three players.

Caldwell-Pope's 3rd year is very confusing. It's a player option and he is certain to accept it. So: small contract mistake. But it's only a one year mistake.

M-Wagner's contract is a perfectly crafted team-option contract. Essentially it was a one year deal for 2024/25.

Harris should not have been signed. But his contract has no impact on the team moving forward. He will be a free agent this off-season.

Anthony's contract is what many backup PGs make. But given that the team has Black, Anthony even being on the roster baffles. That said, from a purely cap-perspective, his contract comes off of the books just as Banchero goes max. So no worries thre financially.


When you say: That’s how you build a viable roster, when the Magic start winning 50+ a season, Orlando will get it's Deni Avdija/Caleb Martin/Payton Pritchard/Max Strus/Herbert Jones III type players.

Actually, the Magic already has its first in Bitadze. Back to what started this topic, it will be interesting to see if M-Wagner becomes the second such contract.