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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#241 » by bullsaficianado » Thu May 22, 2025 7:05 am

Fo-Real wrote:
bullsaficianado wrote:You know Beal sucks when you are willing to trade him for a guy that won't even play next season.


Our roster building and roles suck. Beal sucks for how high paid he is BUT he has averaged 17 pts, 4 boards and 3 assists in a flawed situation. Brad can be useful but won't ever approach 50 mil a year production. He can still ball a bit more than he has been allowed.


I did not mean he literally sucks, dude can ball I mean that contract is so bad for the production he gives that we would be ok with trading him for a player that will miss a year.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#242 » by Djedefre » Thu May 22, 2025 7:30 am

Booker has to go. Period. Take all the assets you can get for him and let that other team deal with the pain of his extension and what to do with him when he weighs 70+mil while not being even close to mvp caliber guy.

If you can get something good for Durant, you trade him yesterday, but if there is no respectable offer, playing him till the end of his contract and freeing a big chunk of cap space is the way to go.

No one's taking Beal, let's try to be reasonable. Swapping him with George is like the dumbest thing ever. Stretching him is almost as dumb. Suns are going to have to live with the decisions they made and try to improve where it's actually possible. You can't make a bunch of idiotic moves one after the other and expect to just magically erase them. There is no undo button and our idiot of an owner and his partners in crime need to stop living in a bubble, virtual reality they built and lost themselves in. How many more years we need to lose so that they can realize this is not a friggin 2k!?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#243 » by sunsbg » Thu May 22, 2025 7:45 am

OKC should be the blueprint. Got rid of Durant, Westbrook and Harden as someone said, built thru the draft and are now a title favorite. Ishbia needs to get assets for Durant, Beal and Booker if he's serious about winning.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#244 » by thamadkant » Thu May 22, 2025 8:17 am

sunsbg wrote:OKC should be the blueprint. Got rid of Durant, Westbrook and Harden as someone said, built thru the draft and are now a title favorite. Ishbia needs to get assets for Durant, Beal and Booker if he's serious about winning.


To be fair, Thunder has been up there as the best drafting team.

The KD, Harden and Westbrook, Ibaka, Perkins core would be winning 2-3 titles easily had they stayed together. KD, Harden and Westbrook as 26-27 year olds together would be the best trio by far.

Today, the Thunder team is elite because they have excellent defense and have very good contribution from 3-4 players who then support a star scorer who can get his points anywhere anytime....

Suns had similar trajectory when they had Ayton, Mikal, Cam Johnson, Booker and ALL their first rounders. Just needed a backup leader behind CP3.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#245 » by Saberestar » Thu May 22, 2025 8:24 am

Gambo said (basically)that our next HC is gonna be one of these 5:

Bliss. Top Assistant Thunder.
Quinn. Top Assistant Heat.
Ott. Assistant Cavs. Michigan ties.
Nori. Top Assistant Wolves.
Sweeney. Top Assistant Mavs.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#246 » by bullsaficianado » Thu May 22, 2025 9:30 am

thamadkant wrote:
sunsbg wrote:OKC should be the blueprint. Got rid of Durant, Westbrook and Harden as someone said, built thru the draft and are now a title favorite. Ishbia needs to get assets for Durant, Beal and Booker if he's serious about winning.


To be fair, Thunder has been up there as the best drafting team.

The KD, Harden and Westbrook, Ibaka, Perkins core would be winning 2-3 titles easily had they stayed together. KD, Harden and Westbrook as 26-27 year olds together would be the best trio by far.

Today, the Thunder team is elite because they have excellent defense and have very good contribution from 3-4 players who then support a star scorer who can get his points anywhere anytime....

Suns had similar trajectory when they had Ayton, Mikal, Cam Johnson, Booker and ALL their first rounders. Just needed a backup leader behind CP3.


I think they would have won at least 1 NBA title with Durant, Westbrook and Harden in OKC had they kept them all together. Warriors would have a couple less NBA titles if Durant stayed. They would have had to beat Warriors, Spurs and Cavs from 2013-2019. They would have gotten at least 1 chip.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#247 » by Saberestar » Thu May 22, 2025 1:06 pm

Vasilije Micic is in Abu Dhabi, following the Final Four of the 2024-25 edition of the Turkish Airlines EuroLeague, besides considering his options at the club level and launching preparations ahead of the EuroBasket 2025.

Swirling rumors include a reported link to Hapoel Shlomo Tel Aviv, which is set to debut in Europe’s premier club continental competition in the 2025-26 season.

“I really don’t know. The team still has an option on my contract. And that’s a serious clause in the NBA. All I know is that I want to play,” the 31-year-old Serbian point guard referred to the Phoenix Suns controlling an option on his contract for the 2025-26 season.

“There are plenty of rumors. I don’t pay attention. When my friends send me a message. If I haven’t signed anything, I have nothing to talk about.”

“My contract officially runs until June 30. Before that, it’s all just talk. But I can’t believe in anything until I see something concrete,” he added in a discussion with Serbian outlet Meridian Sport.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/nba-news/1827730/vasilije-micic-talks-hapoel-tel-aviv-phoenix-suns-serbia/
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#248 » by BobbieL » Thu May 22, 2025 1:54 pm

Djedefre wrote:Booker has to go. Period. Take all the assets you can get for him and let that other team deal with the pain of his extension and what to do with him when he weighs 70+mil while not being even close to mvp caliber guy.

If you can get something good for Durant, you trade him yesterday, but if there is no respectable offer, playing him till the end of his contract and freeing a big chunk of cap space is the way to go.

No one's taking Beal, let's try to be reasonable. Swapping him with George is like the dumbest thing ever. Stretching him is almost as dumb. Suns are going to have to live with the decisions they made and try to improve where it's actually possible. You can't make a bunch of idiotic moves one after the other and expect to just magically erase them. There is no undo button and our idiot of an owner and his partners in crime need to stop living in a bubble, virtual reality they built and lost themselves in. How many more years we need to lose so that they can realize this is not a friggin 2k!?


He should do all of the above. I would also try to trade O'Neale and Allen for expirings by 2027 to coincide with Beal - unless he is stretched

This idea of keeping Durant and building around he and Booker -- I just don't get it. I think its more "fan dom" than actually watching the team the last year. Beal gets way too much of the blame over KD and Booker
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#249 » by Fo-Real » Thu May 22, 2025 1:56 pm

bullsaficianado wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
bullsaficianado wrote:You know Beal sucks when you are willing to trade him for a guy that won't even play next season.


Our roster building and roles suck. Beal sucks for how high paid he is BUT he has averaged 17 pts, 4 boards and 3 assists in a flawed situation. Brad can be useful but won't ever approach 50 mil a year production. He can still ball a bit more than he has been allowed.


I did not mean he literally sucks, dude can ball I mean that contract is so bad for the production he gives that we would be ok with trading him for a player that will miss a year.


Right but naaaa. Silly to trade him for a dude who has the same length of contract but Lillard's contract goes up an extra 6 mil compared (X luxury tax of course), and not only do you NOT get the player for next entire year, but when he does come back in that second year, he will be trying to recover and change his game because he had a major injury that you never come back the same from. He wont be explosive Lillard, he will be figure out what his game is now at 36 with formerly blown achilleas. I would rather keep Beal in that situation.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#250 » by BobbieL » Thu May 22, 2025 1:59 pm

Fo-Real wrote:
bullsaficianado wrote:
Fo-Real wrote:
Our roster building and roles suck. Beal sucks for how high paid he is BUT he has averaged 17 pts, 4 boards and 3 assists in a flawed situation. Brad can be useful but won't ever approach 50 mil a year production. He can still ball a bit more than he has been allowed.


I did not mean he literally sucks, dude can ball I mean that contract is so bad for the production he gives that we would be ok with trading him for a player that will miss a year.


Right but naaaa. Silly to trade him for a dude who has the same length of contract but Lillard's contract goes up an extra 6 mil compared (X luxury tax of course), and not only do you NOT get the player for next entire year, but when he does come back in that second year, he will be trying to recover and change his game because he had a major injury that you never come back the same from. He wont be explosive Lillard, he will be figure out what his game is now at 36 with formerly blown achilleas. I would rather keep Beal in that situation.


The trade Beal scenarios:

Beal for PG 13 - terrible
Beal for Lillar - terrible
Beal if you have to add draft picks and think of what you are getting back - terrible

Miami is not doing something like Rozier and Duncan for Beal without a draft pick being added - probably two

There are just not realistic trade options for Beal that make sense
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#251 » by bwgood77 » Thu May 22, 2025 2:47 pm

ChuckS wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
ChuckS wrote:
A few herein seem to believe that KD is some Svengali who has somehow corrupted or manipulated the otherwise intelligent and competent Booker. But Books' last seven years have been remarkably consistent, with his two best scoring years since KD's arrival. I can't attribute his highest season scoring year to KD who played only 8 regular season games with the team in 22/23. But the playoff loss to Denver was another matter. KD, to me, was still not acclimated, but averaged 29 points per to outperform Murray. Devin, on the other hand was awesome. He had the best of his four playoff performances, averaging 33.7PPG @58.5/50.8/86.6% to offset Jokic. We lost, but not because of our two best players doing their jobs by outscoring theirs. The next year with KD the Suns were swept by the larger/better team but Booker averaged 27.5PPG @49.2/35.1/95.1. His in season average was his second highest at 27.1 per. (KD equaled that in season number, was an all star, and 2d team NBA, Book NBA3d.)

It's common to remember the most recent happening. This year was Book's lowest with KD at 25.6, with his 2d worst 3pt%. But the difference wasn't Durant, but a new coach with an emphasis on shooting threes, and also the necessity for Book to oftentimes play the one. I think the two are very compatible, and have balanced their talents to excellently co-exist.


Troy Brown from Nuggets said it best when they defeated Suns... he described the suns as not a good team. KD and Booker played a two man game team be damned. Ayton averaged 13fga before KD which was already low and his fga went down to 7fga... look it up. His averages as well as CP3'S drastically went down post KD.


Kevin Durant played only eight regular season games, so his in season affect on anyone was minimal. Ayton averaged 18 points per and CP3 13.9.

In the playoffs is when Ayton went from 18 points and 10 boards to 13.4 PPG and 5 rebounds, on 2 less shots per (13.2 to 11.1). I remain convinced that his problem was Jokic, who averaged 34.5 points and 13.2 rebounds, not Devin or KD.

Chris Paul was less affected. He only dropped from 13.9 to 12.4, but with 2 more shots per. But he, too, had his hands full with Murray who went from 20 in season to 26.1.

I think it is consistent, but beyond disingenuous, to fault the the team's only two great performances -- Books' 33.7 PPG and KD's 29 per. I believe the real world, as do most Suns' fans, know who are the best players.


Did you watch the team before the KD trade?
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#252 » by bwgood77 » Thu May 22, 2025 2:54 pm

Gambo said (basically)that our next HC is gonna be one of these 5:

Bliss. Top Assistant Thunder.
Quinn. Top Assistant Heat.
Ott. Assistant Cavs. Michigan ties.
Nori. Top Assistant Wolves.
Sweeney. Top Assistant Mavs.


Hopefully it's Quinn. Never even heard of the other guys. But at least they are all assistants on teams that have been good. I think the Thunder coach is good, so I suppose Bliss, if he has experience might be good. Ott....not sure how long he has been there but Atkinson is one of the best, so coaching under him is a plus. Most of those teams focus on defense....not so much the Mavs until their recent trade, but the others, which is what we need.

Though of course we need a roster overhaul and a guy that can coach young guys. KD and Book are pretty set in their ways and uncoachable and if a coach tries to give them advice they are gone. Like Book being vocal. I know everyone made that sounds like Bud's problem but Book has always been vocal in negative ways, blaming others, etc. You can see it on the court. Even when he makes mistakes. When coaches don't have problems on other teams and win championships, but have trouble working with our guys, and the coaches come and go....I think people have to stop blaming coaches.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#253 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu May 22, 2025 3:31 pm

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2 1st round picks. So another reason to focus on getting picks accumulation in a KD trade over bringing him back!
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#254 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Thu May 22, 2025 3:55 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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2 1st round picks. So another reason to focus on getting picks accumulation in a KD trade over bringing him back!


What we thought was the Ayton-for-Nurkic+Allen trade was actually just the Toumani Camara trade in retrospect. Woof. What a Mat Whiffbia.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#255 » by Bogyo » Thu May 22, 2025 4:35 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Gambo said (basically)that our next HC is gonna be one of these 5:

Bliss. Top Assistant Thunder.
Quinn. Top Assistant Heat.
Ott. Assistant Cavs. Michigan ties.
Nori. Top Assistant Wolves.
Sweeney. Top Assistant Mavs.


Hopefully it's Quinn. Never even heard of the other guys. But at least they are all assistants on teams that have been good. I think the Thunder coach is good, so I suppose Bliss, if he has experience might be good. Ott....not sure how long he has been there but Atkinson is one of the best, so coaching under him is a plus. Most of those teams focus on defense....not so much the Mavs until their recent trade, but the others, which is what we need.

Though of course we need a roster overhaul and a guy that can coach young guys. KD and Book are pretty set in their ways and uncoachable and if a coach tries to give them advice they are gone. Like Book being vocal. I know everyone made that sounds like Bud's problem but Book has always been vocal in negative ways, blaming others, etc. You can see it on the court. Even when he makes mistakes. When coaches don't have problems on other teams and win championships, but have trouble working with our guys, and the coaches come and go....I think people have to stop blaming coaches.


And 2, becouse an and 1 wouldnt be enough.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#256 » by ChuckS » Thu May 22, 2025 5:07 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
ChuckS wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
Troy Brown from Nuggets said it best when they defeated Suns... he described the suns as not a good team. KD and Booker played a two man game team be damned. Ayton averaged 13fga before KD which was already low and his fga went down to 7fga... look it up. His averages as well as CP3'S drastically went down post KD.


Kevin Durant played only eight regular season games, so his in season affect on anyone was minimal. Ayton averaged 18 points per and CP3 13.9.

In the playoffs is when Ayton went from 18 points and 10 boards to 13.4 PPG and 5 rebounds, on 2 less shots per (13.2 to 11.1). I remain convinced that his problem was Jokic, who averaged 34.5 points and 13.2 rebounds, not Devin or KD.

Chris Paul was less affected. He only dropped from 13.9 to 12.4, but with 2 more shots per. But he, too, had his hands full with Murray who went from 20 in season to 26.1.

I think it is consistent, but beyond disingenuous, to fault the the team's only two great performances -- Books' 33.7 PPG and KD's 29 per. I believe the real world, as do most Suns' fans, know who are the best players.


Did you watch the team before the KD trade?


Actually, I did. I followed Iguodala from my former home team, which became the Sixers, and became a GS fan, because I just couldn't "trust the process". I thought the Suns were quite good. I believed the KD trade might hurt their future, but that they would be contenders for enough time to recoup picks, because Durant was that much better than Mikal and Cam (both of whom I still like, having enjoyed them as a New Yorker). And yes I think that that team was much better than today's because of this team's overall makeup and current lack of size and a point guard.

But that's because after the KD trade they then also left themselves with no point guards by trading CP3 and strangely letting Payne go. They also began their center carousel, trading Ayton which today has them even smaller and weaker. Then came the final blow, realizing what was the 2d apron. They did get Allen, which helped, because today they are left pretty much with only KD, Booker, O'Neale, Allen, and Beal, that a contending team would want. They can recover with a couple of good additions if they decide not to tank, and it is possible if not easy. But I've lived tanking and can't recommend it.

So I know I seem, or am, a contrarian, But it's not because I give a damn if anyone is traded to get better, or if anyone dislikes a player. I just think it is profoundly questionable to pull some nebulous crap out of one's ear to demean great, good, or even acceptable players, who IMO are not responsible for today's situation. I particularly am opposed when the obviously best players, especially the great or exceptional, are so ostracized.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#257 » by Sunsdeuce » Thu May 22, 2025 5:22 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
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2 1st round picks. So another reason to focus on getting picks accumulation in a KD trade over bringing him back!

This is infuriating. Nurkic was absolute garbage. Allen is borderline useless (especially if he isn’t hitting his threes). I know there are a crap ton of Ayton Haters but even they have to admit this team would be in a worldly different position (positively speaking) with Ayton and Toumari on this roster over the trash that is/was Nurkic and Allen (and now overpaid Allen).
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#258 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu May 22, 2025 5:55 pm

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But for what exactly? I just don't see how this makes any sense whatsoever. Kuminga isn't a centerpiece, and I don't see the Suns willingly paying him 30 million either!

So due to that factor, the Warriors have no contracts or cap flexibility to make anything happen in a trade for KD. :dontknow:
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#259 » by Slim Charless » Thu May 22, 2025 5:56 pm

Is there anyway that Giannis's price is too high and we can move Durant for Castle, the #14 and filler? Spurs can still take Harper and add a monster punch in scoring. We get a PGOTF and a pick in the teens.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#260 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu May 22, 2025 6:03 pm

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If the Knicks blow this series and lose badly to Indiana, (bad karma they created by attacking Boston fans, etc) then I'd have to think that a KD trade would be back on! Especially looking at the growing dysfunction between Brunson, KAT, Anunoby and Bridges.
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