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[Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m

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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#241 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Jul 3, 2025 1:19 am

kalel123 wrote:
Raptorfan2012 wrote:Jak is the glue. I remember last season where it was pretty much a guaranteed loss if Jak was out. Glad we were able to lock him up.


Not so much that he's the glue necessarily. Just lack of size getting blatant whenever he's out. Don't think new minimum backup is the answer but we'll see I guess due to lack of options/moves.


Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#242 » by JB7 » Thu Jul 3, 2025 1:41 am

Tor_Raps wrote:
kalel123 wrote:
Raptorfan2012 wrote:Jak is the glue. I remember last season where it was pretty much a guaranteed loss if Jak was out. Glad we were able to lock him up.


Not so much that he's the glue necessarily. Just lack of size getting blatant whenever he's out. Don't think new minimum backup is the answer but we'll see I guess due to lack of options/moves.


Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


I think the better comparison is Gobert or IH (not in overall performance, but rather how they impact the game).

Gobert, IH and Yak are required just to hit a certain floor in terms of team performance/wins, but are played off the floor at the end of games.

No way the Wolves make the Western Conference Finals two years in a row without Gobert, or OKC wins the championship without IH, and yet, at those critical moments at the end of games, they are both on the bench.

What I value about Yak, is that he is paid around the amount that type of value is worth. At the end of games, the coaching staff is not questioning sitting Yak.

Outside of Jokic, Wemby and Embiid (if healthy), what C is guaranteed to be on the floor at the end of games?

When you look at the standings from last season, going from 1st place all the way down in either conference, ranking seems to be dictated by competent C's, or rather lack of them.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#243 » by WuTang_CMB » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:03 am

There was some concern going into the draft that Poeltl might bail in free agency next year. It had people wondering if center Khaman Maluach might be Toronto’s pick at No. 9. Instead, the Raptors have locked Poeltl into the starting role for another four years beyond this season, and at a very reasonable rate for a center of his caliber. He’s essentially getting the same money as Turner. He’s excellent on both ends of the floor, and the Raptors need that stability in the middle. Grade: A-
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#244 » by Thaddy » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:11 am

I would prefer moving from him eventually. We need a young defensive big with shooting upside. I hope they use this good value to move him next summer. Poeltl is getting a little overrated for what he is.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#245 » by ConSarnit » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:22 am

JB7 wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
kalel123 wrote:
Not so much that he's the glue necessarily. Just lack of size getting blatant whenever he's out. Don't think new minimum backup is the answer but we'll see I guess due to lack of options/moves.


Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


I think the better comparison is Gobert or IH (not in overall performance, but rather how they impact the game).

Gobert, IH and Yak are required just to hit a certain floor in terms of team performance/wins, but are played off the floor at the end of games.

No way the Wolves make the Western Conference Finals two years in a row without Gobert, or OKC wins the championship without IH, and yet, at those critical moments at the end of games, they are both on the bench.

What I value about Yak, is that he is paid around the amount that type of value is worth. At the end of games, the coaching staff is not questioning sitting Yak.

Outside of Jokic, Wemby and Embiid (if healthy), what C is guaranteed to be on the floor at the end of games?

When you look at the standings from last season, going from 1st place all the way down in either conference, ranking seems to be dictated by competent C's, or rather lack of them.


If there is some type of floor we’re expected to hit with Poeltl I’d like to know what that floor is.

In the games Poeltl has played in we are 57-74. That is a 36 win pace over the course or 82 games.

If we were in high leverage games Poeltl would be getting pulled, especially on offensive possessions. The other reason he’s not getting pulled here is because the backup options have been horrendous. MIN and OKC can/have gone to Towns/Reid and Chet. If Poeltl were in Gobert’s or Hartenstein’s position he’d be getting pulled too as he’s both a worse defender and worse free throw shooter than either of them.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#246 » by bballsparkin » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:28 am

Thaddy wrote:I would prefer moving from him eventually. We need a young defensive big with shooting upside. I hope they use this good value to move him next summer. Poeltl is getting a little overrated for what he is.


I'd rather he become the back up C. Dude is a Raptor.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#247 » by ConSarnit » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:34 am

SFour wrote:
Tripod wrote:Crazy how almost all on the main boards hate this deal.


There's alot of overall hatred towards the Raptors starting lineup and the contracts they're on.....getting compared to the Bulls and Kings, which I think is unfair.

I have a good feeling Raptors will surprise next season, and we got all the receipts saved from the haters.


Why do we get the benefit of the doubt over SAC and CHI?

Play-off wins past 3 seasons:

SAC: 3
CHI: 0
TOR: 0

We have been poorly run the past 3 years and it’s not hard to see that as an outsider. Now, I do think we’ll be better than CHI and SAC this season but they are 2 of the worst run franchises in the league. The fact that we even get lumped in with them at all is an indictment of how poorly this team has been run.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#248 » by ConSarnit » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:41 am

bballsparkin wrote:
Thaddy wrote:I would prefer moving from him eventually. We need a young defensive big with shooting upside. I hope they use this good value to move him next summer. Poeltl is getting a little overrated for what he is.


I'd rather he become the back up C. Dude is a Raptor.


We’d be better suited to run a platoon. Last season when Poeltl was playing 32-33 mpg his defensive numbers were down. Once he was playing 26-27mpg again they jumped back up. Ideally we’d have another young big to play 20mpg to keep Poeltl at optimal defensive performance (we really need him to anchor the defense). Keeping Poeltl fresh and healthy for 70 games would be a big help for this team.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#249 » by bballsparkin » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:43 am

^^for sure. his game is high energy he needs rest.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#250 » by Gold Dragon » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:45 am

If Jakob finishes out this contract with the Raps, he will overtake Demar and Kyle as the longest tenured Raptor.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#251 » by Shakril » Thu Jul 3, 2025 12:39 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
kalel123 wrote:
Raptorfan2012 wrote:Jak is the glue. I remember last season where it was pretty much a guaranteed loss if Jak was out. Glad we were able to lock him up.


Not so much that he's the glue necessarily. Just lack of size getting blatant whenever he's out. Don't think new minimum backup is the answer but we'll see I guess due to lack of options/moves.


Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


That is the very definition of a role player. Those guys have a role to play, and if that role is not fulfilled, the team doesnt work. And Poeltl is very good at what he does. So yes, without poeltl we are cooked. Problem for us is, that normally you have at least 2 players that can fill out the same role, but in our case we dont have a backup C. I need to see Mamu play before i trust him.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#252 » by Shakril » Thu Jul 3, 2025 12:40 pm

Thaddy wrote:I would prefer moving from him eventually. We need a young defensive big with shooting upside. I hope they use this good value to move him next summer. Poeltl is getting a little overrated for what he is.



He gets trashed on this board every possible moment. So its kinda weird of you to claim he gets overrated. The opposite is true.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#253 » by dhackett1565 » Thu Jul 3, 2025 1:51 pm

WuTang_OG wrote:
There was some concern going into the draft that Poeltl might bail in free agency next year. It had people wondering if center Khaman Maluach might be Toronto’s pick at No. 9. Instead, the Raptors have locked Poeltl into the starting role for another four years beyond this season, and at a very reasonable rate for a center of his caliber. He’s essentially getting the same money as Turner. He’s excellent on both ends of the floor, and the Raptors need that stability in the middle. Grade: A-


Also worth noting: Turner's deal is right now. Jak's is two salary cap years from now. In terms of percentage of the cap (assuming full backload for both deals), Jak comes in a little lower (assuming only 7% increases in the cap each year):

Turner:
25-26: 16%
26-27: 16%
27-28: 15%
28-29: 15%

Jak:
25-26: 13%
26-27: 12%
27-28: 15%
28-29: 15%
29-30: 15%
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#254 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:27 pm

Shakril wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
kalel123 wrote:
Not so much that he's the glue necessarily. Just lack of size getting blatant whenever he's out. Don't think new minimum backup is the answer but we'll see I guess due to lack of options/moves.


Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


That is the very definition of a role player. Those guys have a role to play, and if that role is not fulfilled, the team doesnt work. And Poeltl is very good at what he does. So yes, without poeltl we are cooked. Problem for us is, that normally you have at least 2 players that can fill out the same role, but in our case we dont have a backup C. I need to see Mamu play before i trust him.


Thats exactly my point... guys like Poeltl usually dont have a critical level of importance because there should be other players who could do most of what he does. We haven't had a Plan B since he got here.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#255 » by tsherkin » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:49 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
Shakril wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


That is the very definition of a role player. Those guys have a role to play, and if that role is not fulfilled, the team doesnt work. And Poeltl is very good at what he does. So yes, without poeltl we are cooked. Problem for us is, that normally you have at least 2 players that can fill out the same role, but in our case we dont have a backup C. I need to see Mamu play before i trust him.


Thats exactly my point... guys like Poeltl usually dont have a critical level of importance because there should be other players who could do most of what he does. We haven't had a Plan B since he got here.


How many guys do you see in the league who match what Yak does for us?

Because there were 7 guys in the league who played 40+ games and rocked 17/11/3 PER36 over 25+ mpg at 60%+ TS, for what it's worth.

Jokic, Giannis, KAT, Sabonis, Vucevic, Yak and Mark Williams.

That's not a guy you just double up on because they're floating around all over the place.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#256 » by YogurtProducer » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:52 pm

ConSarnit wrote:
SFour wrote:
Tripod wrote:Crazy how almost all on the main boards hate this deal.


There's alot of overall hatred towards the Raptors starting lineup and the contracts they're on.....getting compared to the Bulls and Kings, which I think is unfair.

I have a good feeling Raptors will surprise next season, and we got all the receipts saved from the haters.


Why do we get the benefit of the doubt over SAC and CHI?

Play-off wins past 3 seasons:

SAC: 3
CHI: 0
TOR: 0

We have been poorly run the past 3 years and it’s not hard to see that as an outsider. Now, I do think we’ll be better than CHI and SAC this season but they are 2 of the worst run franchises in the league. The fact that we even get lumped in with them at all is an indictment of how poorly this team has been run.

Bringing up playoff wins in which we were tanking for 2 of those 3 seasons is just odd :lol:
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#257 » by YogurtProducer » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:53 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
Shakril wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


That is the very definition of a role player. Those guys have a role to play, and if that role is not fulfilled, the team doesnt work. And Poeltl is very good at what he does. So yes, without poeltl we are cooked. Problem for us is, that normally you have at least 2 players that can fill out the same role, but in our case we dont have a backup C. I need to see Mamu play before i trust him.


Thats exactly my point... guys like Poeltl usually dont have a critical level of importance because there should be other players who could do most of what he does. We haven't had a Plan B since he got here.

How many teams have multiple centers as good as Poeltl?
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#258 » by Shakril » Thu Jul 3, 2025 3:56 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
Shakril wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Ya the "glue guy" is due to the horrible roster construction we've had the past several years. Its been one of my biggest gripes that we treat Poeltl like hes Jokic in terms of importance. A role player shouldn't be that crucial if you build your team correctly.


That is the very definition of a role player. Those guys have a role to play, and if that role is not fulfilled, the team doesnt work. And Poeltl is very good at what he does. So yes, without poeltl we are cooked. Problem for us is, that normally you have at least 2 players that can fill out the same role, but in our case we dont have a backup C. I need to see Mamu play before i trust him.


Thats exactly my point... guys like Poeltl usually dont have a critical level of importance because there should be other players who could do most of what he does. We haven't had a Plan B since he got here.


You slightly misunderstood me.

You cant just take any center and drop on the spot of yak and everything is fine. Yak is so good at his role, that its hard to replace that. The best thing we can hope, is someone that can play enough good minutes, so we dont get crushed on D while yak sits.

Even a Roleplayers can have a critical level of importance. Its not just about stars.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#259 » by Tor_Raps » Thu Jul 3, 2025 4:41 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:
Shakril wrote:
That is the very definition of a role player. Those guys have a role to play, and if that role is not fulfilled, the team doesnt work. And Poeltl is very good at what he does. So yes, without poeltl we are cooked. Problem for us is, that normally you have at least 2 players that can fill out the same role, but in our case we dont have a backup C. I need to see Mamu play before i trust him.


Thats exactly my point... guys like Poeltl usually dont have a critical level of importance because there should be other players who could do most of what he does. We haven't had a Plan B since he got here.


How many guys do you see in the league who match what Yak does for us?

Because there were 7 guys in the league who played 40+ games and rocked 17/11/3 PER36 over 25+ mpg at 60%+ TS, for what it's worth.

Jokic, Giannis, KAT, Sabonis, Vucevic, Yak and Mark Williams.

That's not a guy you just double up on because they're floating around all over the place.


Its not about having someone AS good as Poeltl but someone who can hold his own where the world doesnt fall apart. You can understand the Nuggets falling apart when Jokic goes to the bench because hes Jokic.

The same shouldn't be true for Poeltl who is a fine C but has been nowhere near allstar calibre for a reason regardless of those cherrypicked stats lol.
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Re: [Charania] Jakob Extended - 4 Years $104m 

Post#260 » by tsherkin » Thu Jul 3, 2025 4:49 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:Its not about having someone AS good as Poeltl but someone who can hold his own where the world doesnt fall apart. You can understand the Nuggets falling apart when Jokic goes to the bench because hes Jokic.

The same shouldn't be true for Poeltl who is a fine C but has been nowhere near allstar calibre for a reason regardless of those cherrypicked stats lol.


I realize that it isn't about replicating his ability exactly, but he's a lot better than many people realize. We're going to have drop-off without him on the floor for what are fairly obvious reasons, regardless of who we have as a backup. He's really, really good. He isn't a superstar, nor a flashy scorer, but he gets a lot of everything done and doesn't really hurt you anywhere, which is a fairly uncommon baseline for a player, especially a non-star.

And calling them cherrypicked stats is a little weird. Yes, they're specific to him, but they're also PER36 to help factor in other roleplayers and the like. Yak is EXTREMELY productive per-minute for us, and sound enough on D that he ties things together for us better than anything else we had available. Players like him have ever actually made an ASG in a light year before. Players worse than him have also made it, so calling him "no where near All-Star caliber" is also a little off-kilter.

You want to diminish his relevance and his impact, so you're trying to downplay him. That isn't really a good pathway forward here. Yak is an underrated player, he's quite good. He isn't "build your franchise around him" good, but on a team with as many flaws as we have, taking the one guy on your team who has almost no positionally-relevant weaknesses off the floor is going to cause large problems. The more so because we've been dog-ass wastes of skin on the defensive glass, and he's excellent there. And he's an efficient roll man, a good passer, a pretty good shotblocker and not a disaster at protecting the ball. He's also a high-end offensive rebounder. Etc, etc, etc.

We lose A LOT whenever he sits. And without him, it's important to remember that we're s**-useless at making shots and rely rather specifically on offensive rebounding to not be THE worst team in the league offensively. And we have struggled defensively. So yeah, it's a big-impact thing when he sits. It will continue to be so, though obviously Mamu will help with the rebounding and opens a lot of intriguing doors offensively.

I think you're not really processing that a) Yak is really good and b) he's really good at the few things which have kept us from being purely embarrassing as a team. Those two things together help explain a lot of his impact.

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