[Build A Team 4.0] Discussion Thread

[LJ4pointplay]

Okay, so obviously win now should be worth more than future, cap, etc.

So maybe points should be ranked 1-29, and then depending on the category X10, or X5, X2 , X1 etc.

..if that makes sense?

[Jstarks3]

still. 4.0 is completely independent of judging for 3.0. if people can't judge and pick players at the same time, man the hell up.

[bishnykfan]

I agree, we need to focus on 4.0. 3.0 seems like it is as done as it is going to be. Lets finalize the rules for 4.0 and get started.

I do have a question regarding the draft randomizer and draft order. Being the Spurs, I am listed fourth from the bottom and my pick which matches up with the fourth from the bottom is #22. But on the draft order it says I pick #23? I also noticed a few other teams not matched up with how I read the draft randomizer. Am I reading it wrong?

?

The Spurs are team #27 (you get that from the GM's list...basically alphabetical order).

In the Randomizer team #27 picks 23rd overall. The Randomizers lists numbers 1 thru 30 in random order...you go find where your teams # is in the Randomizer list and that's where you pick. Team #27 is 23rd from the top. The Draft Order has the Spurs (team #27) picking 23rd overall.

Don't see what the discrepancy is.

---

In my case, I'm the Heat. My team # is 15 (Miami...after Memphis, before Milwaukee). In the Randomizer, team #15 is 6th from the top. The Miami Heat pick 6th overall.

Thanks Moo- I see my error. I was looking at a team like Detroit and saw that they were team #8. Then I went down eight spots to see that they were picking number one (which now I realize is Atlanta picking 8). It was just a coincidence that team one picks eight and team eight picks one. I read the order backwards. For example, I thought Washington had the 6th pick, now I see what I did wrong.

[ctorres]

This time around, we gotta set deadlines for judging and what not. It's the one thing that has effed us the last 3 build a teams.

[bishnykfan]

And I can volunteer to help get this going again. At the end I can tabulate the 30 GM's rankings and post them anonymously and we can try and organize this beginning to get started.

Anything to get this started.

[moocow007]

Okay, so obviously win now should be worth more than future, cap, etc.

So maybe points should be ranked 1-29, and then depending on the category X10, or X5, X2 , X1 etc.

..if that makes sense?

Yeah we can do that...but what you want is to make it easy for the voters. Just having them go down and rank best to worst in pure rank for each category should be pretty easy.

Then leave the tabulation and the weighted formula's to the guys that are technically running this (magnumt and nyknicks2k2). They take everyone's ranks and do whatever is needed and then they tell everyone who the winners and losers are.

Let's just get this thing going!

[moocow007]

And I can volunteer to help get this going again. At the end I can tabulate the 30 GM's rankings and post them anonymously and we can try and organize this beginning to get started.

Anything to get this started.

Or that too. I think mags and 2k2 have a good handle on this but I'm sure any help will be appreciated.

I would suggest NOT having the judges post their results directly to online and instead sending it to someone is better. There's no avoiding one guy being influenced by another guy's judging so to keep it completely fair and sterile, have each GM's ranks sent to that one person, who then crunches all the numbers, announces the winners and THEN AFTER that, they can post every GM's ranks (just so people can check and do their own calculations if they want to just in case anyone doesn't trust the tabulator).

[bishnykfan]

This time around, we gotta set deadlines for judging and what not. It's the one thing that has effed us the last 3 build a teams.

Agree when we are done each team should have a week or ten days to send in results to whoever computes them. Teams that don't send in rankings should not be considered. Maybe we can rank each team in terms of each ratings category (win now, cap management, future, etc) and like LJ said come up with a formula to find a winner.

[LJ4pointplay]

Lets do this..

[Jstarks3]

seriously, this is getting ridiculous. we'll never start at this rate.

[LJ4pointplay]

I say we roll with the 1-29 thing. Least amount of points wins. Contender gets X5. Cap gets X 1. Future gets X 2. and building an overall "team" gets X1.

If anyone has a better idea, or an objection, please voice your opinion. If not, lets this under way.

[bishnykfan]

I say we roll with the 1-29 thing. Least amount of points wins. Contender gets X5. Cap gets X 1. Future gets X 2. and building an overall "team" gets X1.

If anyone has a better idea, or an objection, please voice your opinion. If not, lets this under way.

Agree, I think that is fine, we just need to get started at this rate. Once we get it rolling I think people will start to care more and be more active. Can we unlock the stickied thread and start maybe pick #2 goes on the clock at 9AM tomorrow, at the latest, so they have until 3PM to make it fair for NewJerzeyKnick.

[Jstarks3]

i think we should stick this btw.

[albert]

So here's another concern I have - everyone's obviously excited to get to drafting and trading since it's the most fun part. But look at the judging thread for 3.0 and the depth chart threads - not every poster accurately kept their rosters up to date in those threads or in the Google spreadsheet. This is even after I posted in the judging thread calling for all the posters to keep their teams updated correctly so the judges can have a correct roster list to use.

I don't think its just a case of the judges not coming through, it's the posters as well. Not sure what can be done to fix this.

[Subway Token]

Let's get some volunteers who make sure -- every 10ish picks -- that the google spreadsheet is updated. No biggy.

[swisscheeseD]

I say we roll with the 1-29 thing. Least amount of points wins. Contender gets X5. Cap gets X 1. Future gets X 2. and building an overall "team" gets X1.

If anyone has a better idea, or an objection, please voice your opinion. If not, lets this under way.

I'm not really a fan of the points system, especially with these mathematical formulas that make them up. Who's to determine which category means 5x's more than the next? These point systems have been skewed.

No offense to you LJ, but just for an example...In the last BAT, you lucked out getting the 2nd pick in the draft and your team basically became an auto-contender with Kobe from the get. Instead of sticking to the guidelines, you decided it was more important to build a contender NOW given the point structure of the competition. It wasn't worth it to you to worry about future or cap ramifications, as building a contender and challenging the sim was worth much more than the other measly categories. I completely understand your decision to go for it with the best "win-now" player in the game...BUT...many of us, including yourself, thought you had dropped the ball building a team around him and that many others had done a better job building their teams. Point is...you took advantage of the current point structure, and trust me when I say I don't blame you for it.

We all put a lot of time and effort into these BAT's and it's just disheartening to know you did a better job with what you had in front of you, yet the guys who luck out in the lotto with Kobe and LeBron battle it out in Stern's dream match on the 360 (I'm so glad we eliminated the sim portion of this competition!).

It's too late to give my resolution on this, but I have a few ideas. I just think the point system is so skewed, it shouldn't be so cut and dry.

[moocow007]

^^^But were not doing a SIM so in this case in a ranked system his 3.0 team probably wouldn't be ranked high on most peoples lists, no if what you said is true?

The x(number) calculation is kinda arbitrary and probably shouldn't be that disparate. But that's really more for an overall winner. How about instead we total the points for each team across all the categories and the team with the overall lowest number is the overall winner.

You'd still have the winners for each of the categories being the team with the lowest point total for that category. Then team with the lowest number of points across all categories is the overall champ. Multiple champs (almost like one in every weight class)with one overall champ.

Makes if fair and not weighted in favor of any particular category.

Deal? We can nitpick this to death but the reality is that there is no perfect way of judging and you want one that is going to be the easiest to make happen. And this is it.

[LJ4pointplay]

I say we roll with the 1-29 thing. Least amount of points wins. Contender gets X5. Cap gets X 1. Future gets X 2. and building an overall "team" gets X1.

If anyone has a better idea, or an objection, please voice your opinion. If not, lets this under way.

I'm not really a fan of the points system, especially with these mathematical formulas that make them up. Who's to determine which category means 5x's more than the next? These point systems have been skewed.

No offense to you LJ, but just for an example...In the last BAT, you lucked out getting the 2nd pick in the draft and your team basically became an auto-contender with Kobe from the get. Instead of sticking to the guidelines, you decided it was more important to build a contender NOW given the point structure of the competition. It wasn't worth it to you to worry about future or cap ramifications, as building a contender and challenging the sim was worth much more than the other measly categories. I completely understand your decision to go for it with the best "win-now" player in the game...BUT...many of us, including yourself, thought you had dropped the ball building a team around him and that many others had done a better job building their teams. Point is...you took advantage of the current point structure, and trust me when I say I don't blame you for it.

We all put a lot of time and effort into these BAT's and it's just disheartening to know you did a better job with what you had in front of you, yet the guys who luck out in the lotto with Kobe and LeBron battle it out in Stern's dream match on the 360 (I'm so glad we eliminated the sim portion of this competition!).

It's too late to give my resolution on this, but I have a few ideas. I just think the point system is so skewed, it shouldn't be so cut and dry.

No offense taken...

I would, and think many others would like to hear your ideas. I think we all want this to be the best build a team possible.

I think no matter what the point system, its going to be somewhat arbitrary. However, "win now" IMO, HAS to be #1, and worth at least half the points. In the words of Herm Edwards, YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME. By far, the most important thing, IMO, is to build a contender, end of story. I mean a team with a young Tim Thomas, Darius Miles, Kwame Brown, etc. would be considered a future dominant team. But, um.. yeah. ANY GM that put together such a team a team would be fired and laughed at way harder than Isiah Thomas. As far as cap, yeah its great to have cap room, but I think this summer taught us that cap room is far from a promise of anything. Ask Jay-Z how his cap room went for him.

Yes, these things do matter. Thats why, i believe they should be worth up to half the points. However, they really can't be worth the majority of the points. That is just stupid.

The proposition that I came up with for points was done just to get this thing started, I doubt it is the best out there. However, it seemed like the 1-29 thing worked for most. The X5,X2,X1,X1 was just done to mirror as close as possible the scoring ranges Mags had in the rules. (Although I didn't double check, just did it off the top of my head, hoping others would tweak if neccassary).

This is how I'm looking at it, but would love to hear your ideas or differences in opinions. Like I said, we all want this to be the best as possible.

[LJ4pointplay]

Now, I need to defend my team 3.0 Utah Jazz . Again, no offense taken, half the point of this is for others to criticize your team and you to defend them.

1) I would't call it "taking advantage". I guess the Lakers took advantage of the Celtics cause they spent more time trying to put the ball in the basket instead of doing sprints on the sidelines, because in the NBA, you get points for putting the ball in the basket and not for running sprints.

2) Plenty of people felt I had an elite team (including 4pointplay, who ranked me highest for win now). The biggest knocks on my team were A) salary cap/future, and B ) no big man, 2nd option type for Kobe.
I'll ignore the salary cap/future here. I obviously didn't focus on it and for good reason, like you said. As far as the 2nd option for Kobe.. pickings really are very slim by the end of the 2nd round when it comes to getting a 2nd option type. The bigs still around were Scola, Brand, Jamison.. IDK if there were any others who could even be in the discussion of "2nd" option. Even for non-bigs, my options were players like Vince and Jason Terry. I'm not sure where I really "dropped the ball" here. I knew I needed a big man from the get-go and was bent on trading for one. Eventually I did, for Brand, and again for Jamison.

My final starting 5 was:

Kidd-Kobe-Battier-Jamison-Varajao.

I'm kinda confused as to why people wouldn't think this is a team that COULD win the championship in a build-a-team that is filled with parity by its nature.

3) Believe it or not, the sim was buried in the back of my mind. I figured it was an X factor, and wanted to do well on it, but did my best to win the judging for "win now", and build a team that I, personally liked. Selecting Battier with the 2nd pick of the 3rd round is not something someone does who is catering their team toward the sim. Moreover, I'm not sure why people think me and Mugzi were promised to make it to the SIM championship when we got Kobe and LeBron. This was never brought up until it actually happened. Does every time someone runs a sim in 2k10 Kobe and LeBron make the championship? Could it be, maybe, that me and Mugiz built good teams around these guys, At least good teams for 2K10 standards?

Anyway, I'm very happy with my draft spot for 4.0 #15.. I much rather have this spot than the #2 pick. The B-A-T I am most proud of was 1.0, when I had a similar spot.

IIIR, my team ended up being:

Derrick Rose-Ben Gordon-Shane Battier-David West-Andrew Bogut. I LOVED that team, and if anyone thinks having the #2 pick is an advantage, they are in for a suprise when they see what I do with the #15 pick .

[magnumt]

The delays and minor sh*t have been going on long enough now. Every move that is made will be questioned, it's just the nature of the BATs where you will have 1 Camp wanting to act, and another not wanting to act on any decision. It's why we have myself, nyknicks2k2, and Moo to carry out final decisions so stuff isn't delayed beyond the norm. LJ4pointplay is right here, you can't please everyone, and SOMEONE(s) will eventually end up complaining.

It's a competition, and you try to do the best with the hand you're dealt. We can't have 30 #1 Picks, someone will pick 1st, and someone will be picking last. We've had Teams pick in the middle or bottom that ended up being Contenders or Playoff Locks. We've had Teams pick at the top that were Lotto Locks. It's the same thing in the real NBA. You, we, and David Stern can't account for everything. It's a Game for fun.

[EDIT: Please note #1a of the Rules which has been added to accommodate the new Coaching Field.

All the major Rules have been settled. The BAT 4.0 will resume at 5PM Sharp today, with the normal hours running. I've sent a PM to NJKNicks to notify him.

--Mags