Summer 2012 Free Agents Thread - Part III

[payitforward]

So Mack, Pargo and A.J. Price... I would feel more comfortable if Crawford was starting or backing up at PG.

You do realize that when Crawford is on the floor he shoots, a lot, and that when he shoots he usually misses?

Why wouldn't you rather have Mack eat up most of the minutes? His line was better vs. Cats than Crawford's. He's no worse a shooter.

[Nivek]

payitforward: You just don't understand the value of Crawford's activity. Somebody has to shoot the ball. When he's on the floor, that Somebody is Crawford. Whether it goes in or not...that's just stats. And who needs such frivolities as stats? All you have to do is watch the games and you'll see just how much Crawford does out there. I mean, he runs, he jumps, he dribbles, he catches, he shoots, he plays some defense. He works up quite a sweat. Sometimes, he might even get out of breath for a moment. The guy plays hard!

[payitforward]

payitforward: You just don't understand the value of Crawford's activity. Somebody has to shoot the ball. When he's on the floor, that Somebody is Crawford. Whether it goes in or not...that's just stats. And who needs such frivolities as stats? All you have to do is watch the games and you'll see just how much Crawford does out there. I mean, he runs, he jumps, he dribbles, he catches, he shoots, he plays some defense. He works up quite a sweat. Sometimes, he might even get out of breath for a moment. The guy plays hard!

Nobody said losing was easy work!

[dobrojim]

How much/long did HOU sign Lin for? While he could well prove me wrong,
he could also end up wealthy as heck for being a shooting star ie flash and then gone.

I'm probably being premature...

[jivelikenice]

Anyone know how Livingston is doing in Houston? I'm still holding out hope he gets cut. Livingston starting w/ Pargo coming off the bench could get us through the first month.

[hands11]

Anyone know how Livingston is doing in Houston? I'm still holding out hope he gets cut. Livingston starting w/ Pargo coming off the bench could get us through the first month.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400479

Looking well rested to me

[payitforward]

Anyone know how Livingston is doing in Houston? I'm still holding out hope he gets cut. Livingston starting w/ Pargo coming off the bench could get us through the first month.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400479

Looking well rested to me

Houston has 20 guys!! 15 of them have guaranteed contracts. Of the other 5, Livingston would be a step up, Machado would be at least a bet on the future (vs. a sure thing miss in the present like Pargo/Price), and Greg Smith looks to me like he'll play in the league many years, but is not someone we would have had room for.

If you want to understand how to build and rebuild rosters, just take a look at where Houston and OKC have taken their squads. Makes you understand what a good GM can do.

[fishercob]

Anyone know how Livingston is doing in Houston? I'm still holding out hope he gets cut. Livingston starting w/ Pargo coming off the bench could get us through the first month.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400479

Looking well rested to me

Houston has 20 guys!! 15 of them have guaranteed contracts. Of the other 5, Livingston would be a step up, Machado would be at least a bet on the future (vs. a sure thing miss in the present like Pargo/Price), and Greg Smith looks to me like he'll play in the league many years, but is not someone we would have had room for.

If you want to understand how to build and rebuild rosters, just take a look at where Houston and OKC have taken their squads. Makes you understand what a good GM can do.

Preface: I don't like Ernie as a GM. And there's a lot to like about Morey.

But what has Morey actually accomplished? He did a nice job stockpiling assets, but has done a pretty poor job turning those assets into any kind of on-court success. He can't get anyone worthwhile to take his free agent money and since he's done such a nice job finding talent in the draft, they are probably not going to be bad enough to draft a superstar. His smarts has landed him in the same purgatory that Ernie;s stupidity has us.

The only two hopes in Houston seem to be (a) The Denver model (which is theoretical and yet to be proven), whereby the team gets really good due to a lot of very good but no superstar players, or (b) the appreciation in value of a bunch of his young assets that he can consolidate in a trade for a disgruntled superstar. Neither seems like a safe bet to me.

[payitforward]

Preface: I don't like Ernie as a GM. And there's a lot to like about Morey.

But what has Morey actually accomplished? He did a nice job stockpiling assets, but has done a pretty poor job turning those assets into any kind of on-court success.

Morey lost to injury the guy he was building his team around. And he made a failed bid for Howard. But take a look at his situation going forward. He has a wealth of tradeable assets, and his booked salary for next year will be @ $27m for 13 talented young players. He'll have no problem whatever trading as many of those assets as he needs to, and he'll have no problem attracting good FAs (why would he? Houston is a franchise that's taken seriously, as it should be). Add next year's first round pick and the fact that he has guys to trade right now for e.g. picks next year.

He's in great shape.

His smarts has landed him in the same purgatory that Ernie;s stupidity has us.

The only two hopes in Houston seem to be (a) The Denver model (which is theoretical and yet to be proven), whereby the team gets really good due to a lot of very good but no superstar players, or (b) the appreciation in value of a bunch of his young assets that he can consolidate in a trade for a disgruntled superstar. Neither seems like a safe bet to me.

Excellent, developing young players, tremendous cap flexibility, and a bunch of assets that are high value for their cost (i.e. very tradeable) -- this seems akin to the mess Ernie has created?

As to "proven" or "a safe bet" -- not what it's about. Nothing's proven and there are no safe bets. Having the guts and brains to make something happen the way Morey has (even when he didn't get the FAs he wanted!) separates him from plodders like Ernie. If you really don't think this kind of skill and discipline works, then you're in the "it's all a crap shoot" corral, a place from which there is no exit.

[Ruzious]

I wouldn't say Morey has a wealth of tradable assets. I'm not sure he has even 1 asset that I'd pay anything significant for. Kevin Martin is soon to be 30 year old gunner coming off a bad season. They have 2 Jeremy's in the backcourt that have some value but not a lot - and no Chads. They're loaded up in PF's that all have defects. PF's like they have are so easy to come by - you can get them 3 for a dollar with an e-coupon at Pfaltzgraff. Asik? I love his defense, but he's so limited offensively, and now he's getting paid. Most of their assets are probably going to end up belonging on the clearance rack at the other K-Mart. And that oh so clever Lin contract may come to bite him in his backloaded arse, so to speak - especially since he let 2 very good pgs leave with basically nothing to show for them.

[montestewart]

Add next year's first round pick and the fact that he has guys to trade right now for e.g. picks next year.

EG's trading picks again?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Anyone know how Livingston is doing in Houston? I'm still holding out hope he gets cut. Livingston starting w/ Pargo coming off the bench could get us through the first month.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400400479

Looking well rested to me

Houston has 20 guys!! 15 of them have guaranteed contracts. Of the other 5, Livingston would be a step up, Machado would be at least a bet on the future (vs. a sure thing miss in the present like Pargo/Price), and Greg Smith looks to me like he'll play in the league many years, but is not someone we would have had room for.

If you want to understand how to build and rebuild rosters, just take a look at where Houston and OKC have taken their squads. Makes you understand what a good GM can do.

Livingston is going to be odd man out, IMO. I would wait for Houston to release him.

I like Greg Smith, also, pif.

If the Wizards traded Okafor, Crawford, and Mack to Houston for Kevin Martin, Greg Smith, and Toney Douglas; that would enable Houston to cut Mack's non-guaranteed deal. That reduces their roster one spot.

The Wizards would be better IMO with Martin and Smith than with Okafor. Even if they're not, just getting rid of Crawford and adding Martin would make this a steal.

[closg00]

Other guys who may become available.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/which-camp-in ... ba-roster/

[payitforward]

Other guys who may become available.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/which-camp-in ... ba-roster/

The article you link to indicates Machado has a partially-guaranteed 3-year deal w/ Houston already. Makes it more likely Livingston will be cut.

[fishercob]

Preface: I don't like Ernie as a GM. And there's a lot to like about Morey.

But what has Morey actually accomplished? He did a nice job stockpiling assets, but has done a pretty poor job turning those assets into any kind of on-court success.

Morey lost to injury the guy he was building his team around. And he made a failed bid for Howard. But take a look at his situation going forward. He has a wealth of tradeable assets, and his booked salary for next year will be @ $27m for 13 talented young players. He'll have no problem whatever trading as many of those assets as he needs to, and he'll have no problem attracting good FAs (why would he? Houston is a franchise that's taken seriously, as it should be). Add next year's first round pick and the fact that he has guys to trade right now for e.g. picks next year.

He's in great shape.

His smarts has landed him in the same purgatory that Ernie;s stupidity has us.

The only two hopes in Houston seem to be (a) The Denver model (which is theoretical and yet to be proven), whereby the team gets really good due to a lot of very good but no superstar players, or (b) the appreciation in value of a bunch of his young assets that he can consolidate in a trade for a disgruntled superstar. Neither seems like a safe bet to me.

Excellent, developing young players, tremendous cap flexibility, and a bunch of assets that are high value for their cost (i.e. very tradeable) -- this seems akin to the mess Ernie has created?

As to "proven" or "a safe bet" -- not what it's about. Nothing's proven and there are no safe bets. Having the guts and brains to make something happen the way Morey has (even when he didn't get the FAs he wanted!) separates him from plodders like Ernie. If you really don't think this kind of skill and discipline works, then you're in the "it's all a crap shoot" corral, a place from which there is no exit.

He also went hard after CHris Bosh two summers ago and failed. He was reportedly after Deron Williams in addition to Howard and failed in that pursuit. To the extent that Houston was at one point an NBA glamour destination, it doesn't seem to be right now.

Again, I'm not saying he's not really smart -- but your correct Yao point, as well as someone's previous mention of Tim Duncan, illustrate how much luck plays a factor.

Going forward, the tradeability of his assets remains to be seen. There are a lot of bodies on that team and minutes will be tough to come by. The NBA trade and salary markets are pretty inefficient; i.e. GM's generally do not pay heavily for guys who don't put up big raw stats. Not to mention that if a star does develop on this roster, why would they trade him?

I'd rather have him than Ernie, no question, okay? But his teams haven't done much at all yet, and they would seem to be a good distance from doing so.

[hands11]

They have a ton of youngsters that look like they have some talent. It will be fun to see what they can do this year.

Interesting to read the review of how many big names they went after and failed to get. That just goes to highlight the issue Ted has been addressing. Houston has been a successful team in recent history and even they couldn't get the names they wanted.

Livingston is a team option at $3,500,000

Should be an interesting preseason. Moves could still happen.

Only way they need to move Crawford is if they get back nothing but net positive players. If not, they can just let him walk after this year. I don't see Crawford sticking on the team longer term. He just doesn't seem to be cut from the personality mode they are looking for. Only question really is, when will he be removed from the roster and how.

[LyricalRico]

Shamsports has Livingston's deal as non-guaranteed. Anybody know when it becomes fully guaranteed? If that deadline has already passed, then they don't really gain anything by simply releasing him now. It would probably be better for them to keep him as an expiring contract to use at the deadline.

[hands11]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... With_Hawks

[hands11]

Shamsports has Livingston's deal as non-guaranteed. Anybody know when it becomes fully guaranteed? If that deadline has already passed, then they don't really gain anything by simply releasing him now. It would probably be better for them to keep him as an expiring contract to use at the deadline.

I don't know but I read 1M is guaranteed

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2012/07/joh ... point.html

The Wizards will also continue to monitor Houston’s situation. When the Rockets were chasing Dwight Howard via trade, Stein five days ago reported that they might be willing to waive Shaun Livingston’s non-guaranteed contract in order to clear cap space. Washington would love to bring him back. Livingston’s 26 games with the Wizards in early 2010 were crucial in resurrecting his NBA career, so his return would be a good story, and perhaps the ideal situation this summer. Livingston is not a long-distance shooter, but his polished offensive game and 6-foot-7 frame gives him an advantage over smaller guards. His per 36 numbers in 58 games with the Milwaukee Bucks last season: 10.5 points, 4.0 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 4.1 rebounds, and 46.9-percent shooting from the field.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents/

Partial/Non-Guaranteed Salary – Often confused with a team option, partial/non-guaranteed contracts can be traded after the season is complete, whether or not his next year’s salary is guaranteed. Language specific to that player’s contract often dictates the decision date but that can be changed by mutual agreement between the franchise and the player. For the 2012/13 season, all players on a roster as of January 10 are guaranteed for the remainder of the year.

---

So if Mack is making 800K and Shawn is Guaranteed for 1M, could they trade ? Not much in it for Houston if they really don't need another players anyway. They save 200K but if Shawn wants to come here to start while Wall is recovering, it would be a nice move to accommodate Shawn vs putting him out there with no specific place to land.

So would we want Shawn over Mack ? Go into the season

Livingston, Price, Pargo then when Wall returns figure out who to cut between Pargo and Price.

And if the Wizards really wanted to bring Mack back eventually, they probably could. I don't think there is a huge line forming to sign him. He could likely be free to the taken several time over the next 3 years.

But since Courtney Fortson was released from the Rockets, they now only have Lin, Scott Machado, and Livingston. So I can see them actually keeping Livingston on board. At least to start the year until those other two show they are enough to handle things.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Wizards don't appear to like Mack but they should acknowledge he's been more effective than Pargo or Price, and Shelvin is younger. He makes good decisions with the basketball.

i wouldn't want the Wizards to release Mack for Livingston. What they need to do is trade Crawford for a pick, and if anything, release Price. Best of all, they should package Crawford, Ariza, and Okafor for 2 players in return.

I would love to see Washington acquire Josh Smith.