AtheJ415 wrote:NavLDO wrote:AtheJ415 wrote:
What do you think Cleveland is trying to do this year? Because if you think Cleveland is wanting 19 year olds and 22 year olds who are less proven over vets, then I think you're incredibly wrong. GM Lebron wants to win while Lebron has a chance at a title. Len is the only guy who has proven he would be ready to play in a playoff series, and he's not been the defensive anchor to title teams like Chandler has. If Cleveland was in any way trying to build for the future, they don't make the Mosgov trade, and they don't give out their ridiculous contracts to role players all of last year. They are going for it NOW above all else, and they nearly traded him last year, when his stock was higher, for IT and Markieff alone. The principle of "a core guy must be moved" only applies to teams who are trying to build a core. Cleveland is not trying to build a core. They are trying to tinker with a lineup to win while Lebron still has something, because their window dies with him.
But you are offering overpaid/trash/trash/overpaid for 2 former All-NBAs and an expiring. Three bigs, two of which are on good contracts, for two bigs, a bench SF, and a, well, he's either a SG who can't shoot, or a PG that won't pass. $13M x 4 yrs for a 33 YO Bench 5; $14M x 5 yrs for the combo guard who can't, uh, guard...or shoot...or assist. $8M for a eFG% of .410 and sub .300 3PT%, for 4 more years, and Tucker. When Tucker is the most valued piece of that group, and you are trading for an All-Star/All-NBA player, regardless of what one personally thinks of Love, the bottom line is, he's valuable. And I still don't understand why exactly Cleveland would trade Love; it's not as if he's a poor fit or anything. He's still producing at a decent clip. Yes, he's overpaid as well, but at least 'you' are paying for an All-Star. We are paying for an over the hill Chandler, and an ineffective Knight.
No, I can't see Cleveland wanting to take on for more years of $35M for Knight/Chandler/Kieff for the right to trade 5 more years of $22M. Again, Tucker is the best piece for them, and that's not good...
Who is the 2nd All-NBA player? Varajeo? Because 1, if that's the case, then Tyson is all-NBA and a Finals Monster. Nobody in that trade coming back has value aside from Love and Mozgov, and Mozgov is needed for salary matching, and is a guy Cleveland has been shopping all year.
Knight has more value than you give him credit for. The only other 24 year olds who have put up his combo of points, assists, and rebounds in the past 7 years are Curry, Harden, and Westbrook. Yes, everyone here hates how he plays, but he isn't a bad shooter, and his assist numbers aren't anywhere near as bad as this fan base insists it is. I don't love the guy at all, but the idea that his contract is unmovable is a bit much.
Markieff is a guy they want. You can call him trash, but Cleveland wants that trash. Chandler when he wants to be is the same old Chandler. He has been lazy as hell this season. But he's shown in our early games that he still has ability, and over the past 2 as well. He's a better defensive big man than anybody on their team from a talent perspective. Last year he was 3rd in the NBA in winshares IIRC.
What we're really offering is a bunch of guys who are proven individually, particularly on defense, and who make them better this year. Love is not playing at an All-NBA level either. If you're going to hold all of our guys to just how they've played this year, then we aren't even getting an all-star arguably. Bledsoe was better than Love this year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01.html
Love's decline is minimal, and in some cases, he's played better this season than last season. Knight's decline is much more pronounced.
The biggest reason I'm calling them "trash" or "overpaid" is, compared to their salary, the reason I'm saying this.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/knighbr03.html
Why would any team want to pay those length of contracts for 3 players that have declined since receiving their contracts; as of this moment, all 3 are bad contracts. When made all three were fair contracts based upon the evidence. That's my overall point.
Who would you chose?
Chander at $13M per for another 3.5 years, or Varajao, $10+M for another 1.5 years.
Kieff at $8M per for another 3.5 years, or Love, $22.5M per for another 4.5 years.
Knight at $14M per for another 4.5 years, or Mozgov, $4.5M (I think) for the rest of the season.
This is why I say Tucker is the best piece in this deal, $5.5M per for another 1.5 years. The point I'm making is why would Clev lock themselves up for another 4 years at $35M for those pieces, all of which have declined since getting paid?
Sorry, I'm not seeing ANY team taking/investing that $35M for another 4 years, for those 3 declining talents. At least, that's what the evidence says this season. It's a gamble expecting anything different, IMO, and not a smart gamble. And especially not for an All-Star player.
