Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

Post #261 » by **Knightro** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:58 pm

Los Angeles Lakers Get: Nikola Vucevic

Orlando Magic Get: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, 2019 first-round pick (top-25-protected), 2020 second-round pick (unprotected)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2801303-the-blockbuster-nba-trades-we-want-to-see-this-season

Would you do it? I would if the Lakers 1st was just lotto protected and not top 25 protected.

PrimeThyme · Post #262 » by **PrimeThyme** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:11 pm

Knightro wrote:Los Angeles Lakers Get: Nikola Vucevic

Orlando Magic Get: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, 2019 first-round pick (top-25-protected), 2020 second-round pick (unprotected)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2801303-the-blockbuster-nba-trades-we-want-to-see-this-season

Would you do it? I would if the Lakers 1st was just lotto protected and not top 25 protected.

I want Hart. Badly. They could keep their picks and Id even add in the OKC first.

j-ragg · Post #263 » by **j-ragg** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:12 pm

Knightro wrote:Los Angeles Lakers Get: Nikola Vucevic

Orlando Magic Get: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, 2019 first-round pick (top-25-protected), 2020 second-round pick (unprotected)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2801303-the-blockbuster-nba-trades-we-want-to-see-this-season

Would you do it? I would if the Lakers 1st was just lotto protected and not top 25 protected.

An expiring and two picks is a haul. I’d do it yesterday.

PennytoShaq · Post #264 » by **PennytoShaq** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:19 pm

Top 25 protected in this draft is almost worthless. I would push for something in the 5-10 range or else I don’t see much value in doing this.

magicman112 · Post #265 » by **magicman112** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:21 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:Top 25 protected in this draft is almost worthless. I would push for something in the 5-10 range or else I don’t see much value in doing this.

Yeah, plus KCP's highest scoring average is 14 ppg and that was on a Detroit team that he was pretty much the main scorer on.

EAS Law · Post #266 » by **EAS Law** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:32 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I'm still pulling for idea to change Augustin for Ross in SL.
That bench is terrible, nobody can pass damn ball. 24 min on the floor for them, they combined for 4 assists and 6-26 from the floor ( including 0-12 for 3 )

I think we just need someone to slow down guys like Simmons and Ross. We need someone to calm the offense down instead of barreling into 3 defenders and throwing up garbage shots or pulling to shoot a contested long 2 with 20 seconds on the shot clock. Augustin has been good so far for us, but he is too small sometimes and there isn’t much he can do when he drives and gets trapped.

EAS Law · Post #267 » by **EAS Law** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:38 pm

Knightro wrote:Los Angeles Lakers Get: Nikola Vucevic

Orlando Magic Get: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, 2019 first-round pick (top-25-protected), 2020 second-round pick (unprotected)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2801303-the-blockbuster-nba-trades-we-want-to-see-this-season

Would you do it? I would if the Lakers 1st was just lotto protected and not top 25 protected.

This is terrible value for us. People here severely underestimate what having Vuc on the floor does for us. When he and Bamba are together, we have tons of height and length that gets us boards that we didn’t get before plus, Vuc does just enough to irritate the shot on defense while Bamba and AG can stop it or disrupt it enough not to foul and cause a miss. Those two things were important to our wins so far. I admit that when Vuc and Fournier take over the show, we struggle, but I think Cliff is doing a great job finding that balance.

j-ragg · Post #268 » by **j-ragg** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:45 pm

I’d be shocked if you found a better trade out there but I hope you’re right.

I know for sure no team would trade a top 5-10 pick protection on a first for him. Without attaching a Gorgui Dieng or something to it. But like I said I’d much rather you guys be right than me.

dsg2021 · Post #269 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:46 pm

j-ragg wrote:

Read on Twitter

Clifford has been trolling us for a while with some of these comments.

I actually have had it like this too, with these two near the top of defense. Wes and Evan are hustling like crazy and playing fantastic defense. Wes’ problem is he looks horrendous in G League, Summer League, and Preseason. He’s looked the best in regular season moments where if you look very carefully and with some focus, he’s a great defender out there. Still had trouble fouling and with his offense, so I’m not ready to say he should be rotation material yet.

Post #270 » by **Knightro** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:48 pm

EAS Law wrote:This is terrible value for us. People here severely underestimate what having Vuc on the floor does for us. When he and Bamba are together, we have tons of height and length that gets us boards that we didn’t get before plus, Vuc does just enough to irritate the shot on defense while Bamba and AG can stop it or disrupt it enough not to foul and cause a miss. Those two things were important to our wins so far. I admit that when Vuc and Fournier take over the show, we struggle, but I think Cliff is doing a great job finding that balance.

Terrible value in what way?

It makes the team worse in the short term, sure. But Vucevic is almost certainly leaving after this season in free agency, right?

Wouldn't getting a protected first and unprotected second (along with KCP's bird rights) be a worthy return for someone who only has 78 games left in a Magic uniform.

dsg2021 · Post #271 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:48 pm

bargnanimvp wrote:Why are people saying it's useless for Bamba to play power forward? There's big power forwards in the league and when he's playing center there will be plenty of times people switch or a team goes small against him and he needs to be able to cover more mobile forwards. Plenty or times too when we'll ask him to go to the perimeter more as well on offense if we keep AG and Isaac long term. It's 3 games being on the court in any position will help him adapt.

+1 , it’s also scaring some teams into going bigger sometimes, which discombulates their offense a little bit (and down to a Magic level of offense lol)

Post #272 » by **Knightro** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:55 pm

dsg2021 wrote:+1 , it’s also scaring some teams into going bigger sometimes, which discombulates their offense a little bit (and down to a Magic level of offense lol)

You do realize all this stuff is trackable, right?

Bamba/Vucevic pairing has a -64.1 NET RATING in 16 minutes together.

It has been a MISERABLE pairing. There's been basically nothing beneficial about it for the Magic on the court so far.

If you believe any minutes for Bamba are important to his development, so be it. But getting his head kicked in (which is all that's happened when he's been at PF) while playing out of position doesn't seem like it's a good thing for him or for the team.

dsg2021 · Post #273 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:05 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I'm enjoying that Lakers LLLs too much

Anyway, we should promote Vučević on social media to boost trade value
#VučevićIsEastJokić

make it viral

I think most teams’ scouting and FO know Vooch is a plus defender with his IQ, hustle, and length. They also know he spaces all the way out to 3, can adjust to different coaches and systems, and can play like a poor man’s Nikola Jokic. That puts him so much more above many comparable centers that he’s been compared to in the past. Even watching that BOS-ORL game, I was thinking, man, Vooch would kill it in Horford’s role and outplay him.

The biggest problem are the teams’ approach to trades and free agencies the last few years. It’s been very hands-off, no thanks. Like in a I’ll wait and see if my FA contract offer is good enough, I don’t really care either way with the Warriors out there and the fact I’m not gonna use my cap unless it’s a good value. I think this league-wide approach will lead to Vooch going for a 2nd, but more than likely, the Magic just rather keeping him and letting him hit FA.

At least in FA, I would guess that more teams than most thought will be trying to sign him. He’s gonna get a contract 12-20+ and for the years he wants at least, so great for him! Hopefully when the 5 or so major FA’s decide, and Vooch is that 6th one, those 10 other teams or so don’t regret offering better for Vooch. They will having nothing but cap space, or, offer the next Mahinmi 12+ mil for 3 years. Their call.

dsg2021 · Post #274 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:07 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
j-ragg wrote:

Read on Twitter

Clifford has been trolling us for a while with some of these comments.

I'm just going to give in and go along with it now. Vuc a top 10 C? Fine. DJ a really good PG and decision maker? Sure thing. Evan our second best on ball defender? You got it dude. This is clearly what the universe wants to give us. I'm tired of fighting

MagicFan4Lyfe · Post #275 » by **MagicFan4Lyfe** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:13 pm

I think at best Vuc will net us a late first round or 2 second round picks. I doubt any Vuc trades will
Manifest until close to trading deadline when teams have a better idea about their playoff needs. Also I think the Magic want to ease in Bamba and having Vuc around doesn’t place a huge burden on Bamba.

Magic_Johnny12 · Post #276 » by **Magic_Johnny12** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:15 pm

I'm all for letting Vuc go to greener pastures, but Bamba is truly I mean truly not ready to be a starter. He looks completely lost out there and has become 3 happy. He needs to gain some weight and some confidence down low. He had players like Rozier guarding him at times yesterday and did nothing to take advantage of the mismatch (this happened several times).

The only way I trade Vuc is if we are truly tanking (which I don't think we are) and is a clear overpay. A protected pick that wont convey and a measly SRP is NOT that. Hart is another story.

dsg2021 · Post #277 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:15 pm

EAS Law wrote:
Knightro wrote:Los Angeles Lakers Get: Nikola Vucevic

Orlando Magic Get: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, 2019 first-round pick (top-25-protected), 2020 second-round pick (unprotected)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2801303-the-blockbuster-nba-trades-we-want-to-see-this-season

Would you do it? I would if the Lakers 1st was just lotto protected and not top 25 protected.

This is terrible value for us. People here severely underestimate what having Vuc on the floor does for us. When he and Bamba are together, we have tons of height and length that gets us boards that we didn’t get before plus, Vuc does just enough to irritate the shot on defense while Bamba and AG can stop it or disrupt it enough not to foul and cause a miss. Those two things were important to our wins so far. I admit that when Vuc and Fournier take over the show, we struggle, but I think Cliff is doing a great job finding that balance.

I’d rather just let Bamba learn as much as he can from Vooch the whole year. There’s still a small outside shot of retaining Vooch at 9-13 mil per over 4-5 years. Lets Bamba start next year, but gives ORL a great value Nikola Jokic-lite. It’s getting pretty obvious that ORL is becoming/already dangerous for a frontcourt of skilled giants in Bamba, Vooch, Isaac, Gordon, etc.

dsg2021 · Post #278 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:26 pm

Knightro wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:+1 , it’s also scaring some teams into going bigger sometimes, which discombulates their offense a little bit (and down to a Magic level of offense lol)

You do realize all this stuff is trackable, right?

Bamba/Vucevic pairing has a -64.1 NET RATING in 16 minutes together.

It has been a MISERABLE pairing. There's been basically nothing beneficial about it for the Magic on the court so far.

If you believe any minutes for Bamba are important to his development, so be it. But getting his head kicked in (which is all that's happened when he's been at PF) while playing out of position doesn't seem like it's a good thing for him or for the team.

How often did Bam Adebayo play with Hassan Whiteside? How many massive minutes was MIA giving Bam in preaseason towards expecting him to play so much in the opener? What was the W/L result of -64 NET RATING? 1 W..

You don’t have to live with a pair’s specific minutes together. They were -64 but the 5-man Magic lineup got the W. Just seeing them together for 4 minutes puts the other team in a spot to play bigger than they have before, run less plays within their small ball offense than they are used to. Not saying it’s something I want to see more of either, but to say it’s some purely negative 64 thing is not the true picture in total, it had some benefits minor or otherwise. Like someone said, it’s giving Bamba like 3 extra minutes here and there so it’s all gravy.

YosemiteSam · Post #279 » by **YosemiteSam** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:31 pm

Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

Post #280 » by **Knightro** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:36 pm

dsg2021 wrote:How often did Bam Adebayo play with Hassan Whiteside? How many massive minutes was MIA giving Bam in preaseason towards expecting him to play so much in the opener? What was the W/L result of -64 NET RATING? 1 W..

You don’t have to live with a pair’s specific minutes together. Just seeing them together for 4 minutes puts the other team in a spot to play bigger than they have before, run less plays within their small ball offense than they are used to.

You don't get it.

Read on Twitter

^ exactly what MDS said holds true here as well. You can't fall into the "results > process" trap. Just because the Magic happened to win the game against Miami when Miami countered with a big lineup doesn't mean that the decision the Magic made was a good one.

Against Miami... Bamba/Vucevic played together for 5 minutes and had a -59.9 net rating. The Magic won in spite of their rotations that game.

Adebayo and Whiteside have played together for 9 minutes this season and have a -2.3 net rating.