2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[Archx]

Bagley proving the Luka fanboys wrong

You mean Ayton fans. Doncic is still #1. But I think Bagley is better than Ayton. Suns messed up again.

Bagley has been #1 all along and still is, nobody has this man's potential in this draft class. All time great athlete.with an all time great work ethic and motor, you kidding me? This man is going to tap 100% of his potential barring injury.

Ayton is playing consistently efficient over the year, Young has also emerged as an efficient and very good PG, JJJ showed a ton of potential as well. And i don't even want to mention the other guy in Texas, rapidly improving on a monthly basis.
So how is Bagley 100% the best out of top5 group? Defenses are not even focusing on him right now, he's still a solid bench player. When he has 20 starts under his belt and producing same numbers by being double teamed and being a focus of opposing defensive schemes then we can talk about this.

[mcmurphy]

It’s rare that the top 5 picks all end up being gun players, but it really is looking that way this year.

I don’t think anyone would be unhappy with their picks in the top 5 right now, although some would be potentially wishing they went for Doncic.

The rest are all great picks at their position and you’d be hard pressed to change any teams pick outside of wanting Doncic.

Yes, it looks that top5 were very deservedly picked first. But when we’re comparing last years rookies, Simmons included , I don’t see much of the difference in the top5 with 2018 ( Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum, Collins, Fox) and 2017 draft looks even deeper.

two years in a row is very very rare

[Bob8]

It’s rare that the top 5 picks all end up being gun players, but it really is looking that way this year.

I don’t think anyone would be unhappy with their picks in the top 5 right now, although some would be potentially wishing they went for Doncic.

The rest are all great picks at their position and you’d be hard pressed to change any teams pick outside of wanting Doncic.

Yes, it looks that top5 were very deservedly picked first. But when we’re comparing last years rookies, Simmons included , I don’t see much of the difference in the top5 with 2018 ( Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum, Collins, Fox) and 2017 draft looks even deeper.

two years in a row is very very rare

They weren’t drafted in top5 like this year, but quality of last years rookies looks to me at least the same if not better.

[Bob8]

You mean Ayton fans. Doncic is still #1. But I think Bagley is better than Ayton. Suns messed up again.

Bagley has been #1 all along and still is, nobody has this man's potential in this draft class. All time great athlete.with an all time great work ethic and motor, you kidding me? This man is going to tap 100% of his potential barring injury.

Ayton is playing consistently efficient over the year, Young has also emerged as an efficient and very good PG, JJJ showed a ton of potential as well. And i don't even want to mention the other guy in Texas, rapidly improving on a monthly basis.
So how is Bagley 100% the best out of top5 group? Defenses are not even focusing on him right now, he's still a solid bench player. When he has 20 starts under his belt and producing same numbers by being double teamed and being a focus of opposing defensive schemes then we can talk about this.

Bagley was treated far the worst, so it’s understandable that Kings fans are reacting like that. But they’re forgetting that 10+ rookies had 1 or 2 exceptional games.

[mcmurphy]

Yes, it looks that top5 were very deservedly picked first. But when we’re comparing last years rookies, Simmons included , I don’t see much of the difference in the top5 with 2018 ( Simmons, Mitchell, Tatum, Collins, Fox) and 2017 draft looks even deeper.

two years in a row is very very rare

They weren’t drafted in top5 like this year, but quality of last years rookies looks to me at least the same if not better.

I don't know... I see the top5 2018 in the sophomore year even better and the others they could come out as Fox this year

IMHO 2018 is better

[Pachinko_]

I also begin to understand why the choice of Bagley instead of Doncic (which I consider a superior player) but having focused on Fox and Hield was the only possible choice for Vlade... kudos to him

Nah that's BS IMHO
If you want to see how Luka could have fit with Fox go watch on youtube how nicely he fit with Dragic when they won it all with Slovenia. Dragic had a crazy usage, he was pretty much taking half his team's shots and had the ball in his hands all the time, and yet Luka was finding ways to be productive and complementary off ball and then he was playing PG when Dragic had to sit. And that was in 40 mins games too. They had amazing chemistry together and always getting touches for each other because great players always eventually figure it out.

That my ball - your ball mentality is usually a failure anyway.

I still don't know WTF got into Divac and decided to pass on Doncic but this "can't play with Fox" idea makes no sense whatsoever.

[Bob8]

two years in a row is very very rare

They weren’t drafted in top5 like this year, but quality of last years rookies looks to me at least the same if not better.

I don't know... I see the top5 2018 in the sophomore year even better and the others they could come out as Fox this year

IMHO 2018 is better

The same high expectations was for 2017 class and not many got much better. You have to have the skills to become better and you cannot get them overnight if ever.

[mcmurphy]

I also begin to understand why the choice of Bagley instead of Doncic (which I consider a superior player) but having focused on Fox and Hield was the only possible choice for Vlade... kudos to him

Nah that's BS IMHO
If you want to see how Luka could have fit with Fox go watch on youtube how nicely he fit with Dragic when they won it all with Slovenia. Dragic had a crazy usage, he was pretty much taking half his team's shots and had the ball in his hands all the time, and yet Luka was finding ways to be productive and complementary off ball and then he was playing PG when Dragic had to sit. And that was in 40 mins games too. They had amazing chemistry together and always getting touches for each other because great players always eventually figure it out.

my 2 cent

Luka feb 2019 respect Luka of sept 2017 is a much better and confident player.

IMHO Doncic in sept 2017 was underused but there were no other solutions... Dragic was the better player and playing in the same position of Doncic , so Koko had to find a solution to let his 2 best players play... if Koko had a forward or a center of Dragic level and Doncic could play PG full time Slovenia would have won even more easily

Fox and Doncic will be the same of Dragic and Doncic (at reversed positions) neither would have developed their full potential... just see the performance of Doncic since he became the PG full time at Dallas

if Divac took Doncic he had to sell off Fox at 50 cent per dollar as he came from a worse season than DSJ

this is only my opinion

[Pachinko_]

Nah, DSJ was just a bad player.

[Stribor]

The game is slowing down for Bagley. Shooting threes, making mid range shots, grabbing a board, driving full court n passing to a teammate, n making the extra pass. That’s just the offensive side of the ball. On defense, he’s reading the gam3 bettter, flashin out against guards on rolls, n has much better positioning. Dude is going to be a beast.

I was super low on Bagley considering him the most likely flop out of top 5. Glad I was wrong , seems that first time that I remember that none of the top 5 is going to be a flop. They all seem like at least future all star material. This is rare!!!

[E-Balla]

The game is slowing down for Bagley. Shooting threes, making mid range shots, grabbing a board, driving full court n passing to a teammate, n making the extra pass. That’s just the offensive side of the ball. On defense, he’s reading the gam3 bettter, flashin out against guards on rolls, n has much better positioning. Dude is going to be a beast.

I was super low on Bagley considering him the most likely flop out of top 5. Glad I was wrong , seems that first time that I remember that none of the top 5 is going to be a flop. They all seem like at least future all star material. This is rare!!!

Mo Bamba at 6 was sooooo close.

[akhan786]

I also begin to understand why the choice of Bagley instead of Doncic (which I consider a superior player) but having focused on Fox and Hield was the only possible choice for Vlade... kudos to him

Nah that's BS IMHO
If you want to see how Luka could have fit with Fox go watch on youtube how nicely he fit with Dragic when they won it all with Slovenia. Dragic had a crazy usage, he was pretty much taking half his team's shots and had the ball in his hands all the time, and yet Luka was finding ways to be productive and complementary off ball and then he was playing PG when Dragic had to sit. And that was in 40 mins games too. They had amazing chemistry together and always getting touches for each other because great players always eventually figure it out.

my 2 cent

Luka feb 2019 respect Luka of sept 2017 is a much better and confident player.

IMHO Doncic in sept 2017 was underused but there were no other solutions... Dragic was the better player and playing in the same position of Doncic , so Koko had to find a solution to let his 2 best players play... if Koko had a forward or a center of Dragic level and Doncic could play PG full time Slovenia would have won even more easily

Fox and Doncic will be the same of Dragic and Doncic (at reversed positions) neither would have developed their full potential... just see the performance of Doncic since he became the PG full time at Dallas

if Divac took Doncic he had to sell off Fox at 50 cent per dollar as he came from a worse season than DSJ

this is only my opinion

I agree. You have to give Luka the ball. He's the defacto PG like Lebron. I think the Kings and Mavs both got who they should have gotten. Too much overlap with already invested pieces in Fox, Hield, and Bogi.

I didn't agree with the pick at the time, but now I see what Bagley can become. And I'll root for both of them because they're both fun to watch too.

[Stribor]

Can this be a better top 5 then 2003, at least in terms of measurable achievements (MVPs, All stars, rings ...). In 2003 Milicic was the real odd one out. Now I have a feeling literally everyone of them is going to have at least 1 all star game, and there is a number of rings in this guys...

[kb02]

The game is slowing down for Bagley. Shooting threes, making mid range shots, grabbing a board, driving full court n passing to a teammate, n making the extra pass. That’s just the offensive side of the ball. On defense, he’s reading the gam3 bettter, flashin out against guards on rolls, n has much better positioning. Dude is going to be a beast.

I was super low on Bagley considering him the most likely flop out of top 5. Glad I was wrong , seems that first time that I remember that none of the top 5 is going to be a flop. They all seem like at least future all star material. This is rare!!!

My most likely to bust player was Trae Young. Not so much bust, but to under perform his draft position. Felt his size, lack of athleticism, and shot selection would hamper him. Thought his handles and vision would allow him to be a 10 year pro. But his craftiness is translating well. I had him pegged as a Lou Williams clone and he's showing that he can be a front line starter--this is assuming that they'll be able to hide him on defense and is also assuming that he'll continue to progress from a team play perspective. His shot selection would not go well on an older team and may not go well in the future, should they get another alpha player (like Zion).

As for Bagley, I've been saying this for a while and got scoffed at earlier: his template is Giannis. 3 years from now, he's going to be grabbing boards and leading the break. As a starter, he can get 20 points in the paint now, but, in the future, the majority of his points will be facing up--off of drives, mid range jumpers, and threes. And having Giles next to him is starting to rub off from a vision and passing perspective. Best way to show that you're lacking in a certain area is to see a teammate do it (especially another young buck like himself). As demonstrated by last night's game, he's starting to combine all of those elements now. It's a credit to his work ethic and ability to grow in game. Give him a few years and add a euro step then watch out. Barring injury, the Kings got a beast.

[Mephariel]

Bagley proving the Luka fanboys wrong

How is that? Because he had 24/12 game? Good for him. Luka's best game is 35/12/10 and he had 17 games with 24 points or more. 7 with 30 or more. Luka is averaging 23.2/8.3/6.4 in 2019. Maybe we should wait for a game or two to declare Bagley the best player from the 2018 draft?

Luka is having a better season no doubt, but you can't compare stats when Bagley is doing what he is doing from the bench. Luka basically can do whatever he wants to.

[Johnny Firpo]

Luka basically can do whatever he wants to.

The main reason why Luka can do whatever he wants to, is because he can do whatever he wants to.

[Buzzard]

This is a great top five draft class. I like in this order Luka, Trae, Ayton, Bagley, JJJ. Trae and Ayton could be ROY in a different draft class; and flip flop them here at 2 and 3 if you like. Trae is trending up but no one is catching Luka. I am not impressed with Aytons D for such a large body; but there is no denying his flashes of dominance this year. Bagley is moving up but he needs to keep taking on a bigger load like my top three have. JJJ is the weakest but he also the youngest. Plenty of time to grow.

This class is going to be compared with each other for years to come. Being a Hawks homer I have to mention two who are not in the ROY conversation but may be talked about as steals. SG/SF Kevin Huerter, 19, 5 and 4, along with 5 treys last night and PF/C Omari Spellman 16, 10 and 4 treys last night.

I am a happy camper that we were able to draft so many players last season. I can only hope this next draft class turns out to be as full of promise.

[nolang1]

I also begin to understand why the choice of Bagley instead of Doncic (which I consider a superior player) but having focused on Fox and Hield was the only possible choice for Vlade... kudos to him

Nah that's BS IMHO
If you want to see how Luka could have fit with Fox go watch on youtube how nicely he fit with Dragic when they won it all with Slovenia. Dragic had a crazy usage, he was pretty much taking half his team's shots and had the ball in his hands all the time, and yet Luka was finding ways to be productive and complementary off ball and then he was playing PG when Dragic had to sit. And that was in 40 mins games too. They had amazing chemistry together and always getting touches for each other because great players always eventually figure it out.

That my ball - your ball mentality is usually a failure anyway.

I still don't know WTF got into Divac and decided to pass on Doncic but this "can't play with Fox" idea makes no sense whatsoever.

Ever heard of defense? Who out of Luka, Fox, and Buddy would guard the other team's best perimeter player?

[Mephariel]

Luka basically can do whatever he wants to.

The main reason why Luka can do whatever he wants to, is because he can do whatever he wants to.

Yeah for sure. But regardless my point still stands. You can't compare stats of a starter to a bench player.

[E-Balla]

The game is slowing down for Bagley. Shooting threes, making mid range shots, grabbing a board, driving full court n passing to a teammate, n making the extra pass. That’s just the offensive side of the ball. On defense, he’s reading the gam3 bettter, flashin out against guards on rolls, n has much better positioning. Dude is going to be a beast.

I was super low on Bagley considering him the most likely flop out of top 5. Glad I was wrong , seems that first time that I remember that none of the top 5 is going to be a flop. They all seem like at least future all star material. This is rare!!!

My most likely to bust player was Trae Young. Not so much bust, but to under perform his draft position. Felt his size, lack of athleticism, and shot selection would hamper him. Thought his handles and vision would allow him to be a 10 year pro. But his craftiness is translating well. I had him pegged as a Lou Williams clone and he's showing that he can be a front line starter--this is assuming that they'll be able to hide him on defense and is also assuming that he'll continue to progress from a team play perspective. His shot selection would not go well on an older team and may not go well in the future, should they get another alpha player (like Zion).

As for Bagley, I've been saying this for a while and got scoffed at earlier: his template is Giannis. 3 years from now, he's going to be grabbing boards and leading the break. As a starter, he can get 20 points in the paint now, but, in the future, the majority of his points will be facing up--off of drives, mid range jumpers, and threes. And having Giles next to him is starting to rub off from a vision and passing perspective. Best way to show that you're lacking in a certain area is to see a teammate do it (especially another young buck like himself). As demonstrated by last night's game, he's starting to combine all of those elements now. It's a credit to his work ethic and ability to grow in game. Give him a few years and add a euro step then watch out. Barring injury, the Kings got a beast.

Not Giannis. He's nowhere near the natural passer Giannis is and he knows how to limit his game and does just that. I always saw him as a springy Bob McAdoo in the future (less of a jumper but McAdoo had one of the best jumpers in the league in the 70s). Like a great 27/14/3 with a faceup jumper and dribble drive game type player.