2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread

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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#261 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:
Balkman32 wrote: The Thunder have 15 FRP, they aren't going to use all of them so getting another one or two from the Raptors isn't really that helpful since they would be later FRP's, especially it its a protected pick.

I don't believe the thunder front office believes this at all. Smart, wealthy businessmen don't retire after their first million.


First, successful businesses (closely held corporations, LLCs, sole proprietorships) sell to larger ones all the time because lots of people are interested in cashing out and relaxing at some point. We don't hear about it in the news because those people, having cashed out, don't ever become Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg, etc.

Second, the value of a dollar in absolute terms remains the same regardless of wealth but in relative terms decrease past a certain point. To illustrate, say I (a middle-income American) wins 2 million dollars in the lottery. That's life-changing money for me. I'm paying off my mortgage, possibly moving to a larger house, etc. Say Jeff Bezos wins an extra 2 million? It makes almost no impact in his life at all. It would be like me winning $2.

At some point acquiring ever more draft picks would be similar I'd think. Not saying we're there yet but it seems conceivable the relative return diminishes eventually if we're talking late 1sts and second-rounders, etc.


They sold their business. They didn't walk away from it without maximizing value. Also, how many wealthy people truly retire? They may sell out but they end up going back to work to make more money. My point is I don't see the thunder leaving value on the table just because we seem to have enough assets at the moment.

I see your point on the comparison but I think the situation is different than average joe and jeff bezos. There are 30 teams and 30 frp every year. I don't think their value goes down as long as they are managed properly.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#262 » by Balkman32 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:56 pm

FRP are very valuable, but the protection and the team you get these picks from are huge.

We also have to remember that the double draft is coming. Having multiple picks in that draft is ideal.

I am all for getting good first rounders because it will help us build a sustainable future but to sell Gallo and Adams for a protected FRP from the Raptors just does not do it for me. The Thunder will be able to S&T Gallo in the off season if he stays. I rather have a playoff series and the chance to extend Adams.

Adams is only 26 and a national treasure.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#263 » by Dadouv47 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:19 pm

Balkman32 wrote:FRP are very valuable, but the protection and the team you get these picks from are huge.

We also have to remember that the double draft is coming. Having multiple picks in that draft is ideal.

I am all for getting good first rounders because it will help us build a sustainable future but to sell Gallo and Adams for a protected FRP from the Raptors just does not do it for me. The Thunder will be able to S&T Gallo in the off season if he stays. I rather have a playoff series and the chance to extend Adams.

Adams is only 26 and a national treasure.


Yeah that's out of question. Gallo is worth a late first.

I also wonder why some fans are so confident we could sign and trade Gallo. He's very good but he's 31 years old and not an all star. Most Sign & trades are involving very young talented guys or superstars.

And about Adams, if he wants to stay in OKC for a smaller contract, i'm fine with that. His trade value isn't that high anyway and I like him a lot.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#264 » by Kizz Fastfists » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:27 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:I also wonder why some fans are so confident we could sign and trade Gallo. He's very good but he's 31 years old and not an all star. Most Sign & trades are involving very young talented guys or superstars.


Because the Presti PR machine is powerful.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#265 » by retrobro90 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:39 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:I also wonder why some fans are so confident we could sign and trade Gallo. He's very good but he's 31 years old and not an all star. Most Sign & trades are involving very young talented guys or superstars.


Because the Presti PR machine is powerful.


I think the case for a Gallo S&T is based on this year's FA class sucking and Gallo is gonna be faced with one of these 4 major options over the summer.

1. Taking a major discount to sign with a contender
2. Getting paid properly by a team that isn't competing
3. A contending team agrees to a S&T for him so that he can be properly paid and be in a situation to compete for a title.
4. Re-sign in OKC

S&T also hard caps OKC however and I don't have our 20-21 salary sheet in front of me but I can imagine even with Roberson expiring they would have to do some trickery to keep themselves below the hard cap. I still think he gets traded this month but I'm also perfectly fine keeping him this year over getting a 20's FRP in what seems to be a garbage draft.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#266 » by Balkman32 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:05 pm

The S&T is 2 pronged.

Not many teams with cap room (the ones that do will chase guys like Fournier & Bogdan. Not a 32 year old with a decent injury history. The teams with over $15 in cap space are Hawks, Grizz, Cavs, Hornets, Knicks & Suns. The Pel’s and Blazers could get a little over $10 m.

The 2nd is the week FA class.

The hard cap is above the lux tax, so that shouldn’t be an issue because they will wanna dip under the tax.

The worst thing that happens here is he expires and signs for the mid level starting at $9 million a year with 5% increases. But I think he would get more than that.

Or maybe the worst thing that happened is we re-sign him and run it back.

S&T are coming back.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#267 » by ThunderBolt » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:07 pm

If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#268 » by Dadouv47 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:26 am

ThunderBolt wrote:If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.


I would definitely move Ferguson. Don't know about DIallo...he will probably never learn to shoot but love the kid and not sure giving up on him for a small chance of going to the 2nd round is worth it.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#269 » by Old Man Game » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:35 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.


Anyone know how they do respectively in the various advanced stats (RPM etc.). I could be totally wrong but something about Diallo's game tells me those figures won't be kind to him. A lot of flash and little substance to his game at this juncture.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#270 » by ThunderBolt » Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:04 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.


Anyone know how they do respectively in the various advanced stats (RPM etc.). I could be totally wrong but something about Diallo's game tells me those figures won't be kind to him. A lot of flash and little substance to his game at this juncture.


Diallo- ORPM-0.72 DRPM 0.92 RPM0.20 Wins 0.23 Net rating of 1.4. TS 49.5

You can play around with lot of info here.
https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/team?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612760&PlayerId=1628977

Box Score Raptor
OFF DEF Total
-2.9 +2.5 - 0.4

ON/OFF Raptor
OFF DEF Total
-3.2 +5.2 +2.1

Overall Raptor
OFF DEF Total
-3.2 +3.2 +0.0

WAR
0.5
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#271 » by oreojenkins » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:09 am

Gallo for Mikal Bridges or Cam Johnson + Tyler Johnson's expiring seems inevitable and also acceptable.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#272 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:02 pm

Because of standings, think some teams will wait until last day of the trade deadline to make some moves. Portland/Suns/Wolves may wait 3 more week to see if they can make a playoff push or if they should give up and even consider trading assets (whiteside for example) to get better for next year.

I don't like our odds of making good trades though.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#273 » by Balkman32 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:53 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.


Both of these guys are 21 years old. I don't think you sell them for a playoff run with this roster.

Ferg played some great defense on Harden last week. I don't think they should be trading these guys unless they are getting a really good player back.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#274 » by Balkman32 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:18 pm

oreojenkins wrote:Gallo for Mikal Bridges or Cam Johnson + Tyler Johnson's expiring seems inevitable and also acceptable.


They have to get a Sun's FRP if they trade Gallo to PHX. Bridges and C. Johnson are both 23 years old. When the Thunder are probably ready to start competing they will be 27/28 and in need of a new contract.

Getting a PHX FRP is what Presti will want/ need.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#275 » by Balkman32 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:21 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:Because of standings, think some teams will wait until last day of the trade deadline to make some moves. Portland/Suns/Wolves may wait 3 more week to see if they can make a playoff push or if they should give up and even consider trading assets (whiteside for example) to get better for next year.

I don't like our odds of making good trades though.


Its crazy how close it is. There is 7 teams within 4 games for the 9th spot. I think the East would probably be willing to get the trading started now that Orlando has pulled ahead of the Hornets and Pistons.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#276 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:21 pm

Balkman32 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.


Both of these guys are 21 years old. I don't think you sell them for a playoff run with this roster.

Ferg played some great defense on Harden last week. I don't think they should be trading these guys unless they are getting a really good player back.


I wouldn't give Ferguson a contract in a bit more than a year. Ferguson is a starter for more than a year so we already know what he can bring to the table. He can defend but still far from elite and he makes way too many stupid fouls. He can't handle the ball and at best would be a decent wide open shooter. So definitely I wouldn't mind trading him...

Diallo's shot is probably broken but I want to give him more playing time to know for sure before making any decision. He barely played last season and not playing a lot this season as well..
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#277 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:25 pm

Balkman32 wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:Because of standings, think some teams will wait until last day of the trade deadline to make some moves. Portland/Suns/Wolves may wait 3 more week to see if they can make a playoff push or if they should give up and even consider trading assets (whiteside for example) to get better for next year.

I don't like our odds of making good trades though.


Its crazy how close it is. There is 7 teams within 4 games for the 9th spot. I think the East would probably be willing to get the trading started now that Orlando has pulled ahead of the Hornets and Pistons.


yeah but the Pistons and Hornets are sellers now that they probably won't go to the playoffs. Orlando won't trade for Schroeder since they are happy developing Fultz and I don't think they are willing to trade a late FRP for Gallo (it would improve their team but still far from being able to go to the second round)
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#278 » by Balkman32 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:27 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:If the FO wants to upgrade the roster for a playoff run I would be much more interested in moving Ferguson or diallo than any other future assets. Diallo’s shot looks broken beyond repair and Ferguson just sucks.


Both of these guys are 21 years old. I don't think you sell them for a playoff run with this roster.

Ferg played some great defense on Harden last week. I don't think they should be trading these guys unless they are getting a really good player back.


I wouldn't give Ferguson a contract in a bit more than a year. Ferguson is a starter for more than a year so we already know what he can bring to the table. He can defend but still far from elite and he makes way too many stupid fouls. He can't handle the ball and at best would be a decent wide open shooter. So definitely I wouldn't mind trading him...

Diallo's shot is probably broken but I want to give him more playing time to know for sure before making any decision. He barely played last season and not playing a lot this season as well..


I hear you but they are both 21 years old (same age as Shai) and far from who they will become. I just don't see a reason to deal them to get a guy for now. I rather let these two learn from the guys we have on the roster, grow as players. There are going to be a lot of minutes over the next 2-3 years. If these guys can carve out a role during the soon to come dark years I think we will get more bang for the buck.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#279 » by Dadouv47 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:41 pm

Balkman32 wrote:
Dadouv47 wrote:
Balkman32 wrote:
Both of these guys are 21 years old. I don't think you sell them for a playoff run with this roster.

Ferg played some great defense on Harden last week. I don't think they should be trading these guys unless they are getting a really good player back.


I wouldn't give Ferguson a contract in a bit more than a year. Ferguson is a starter for more than a year so we already know what he can bring to the table. He can defend but still far from elite and he makes way too many stupid fouls. He can't handle the ball and at best would be a decent wide open shooter. So definitely I wouldn't mind trading him...

Diallo's shot is probably broken but I want to give him more playing time to know for sure before making any decision. He barely played last season and not playing a lot this season as well..


I hear you but they are both 21 years old (same age as Shai) and far from who they will become. I just don't see a reason to deal them to get a guy for now. I rather let these two learn from the guys we have on the roster, grow as players. There are going to be a lot of minutes over the next 2-3 years. If these guys can carve out a role during the soon to come dark years I think we will get more bang for the buck.


I also wouldn't make any trade to improve our roster for this season tbh. But if we can move Ferguson for any positive asset (a ''meh'' young player or a couple of 2's) I would definitely do it.
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Re: 2019-2020 Trade Deadline Thread 

Post#280 » by spearsy23 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:48 pm

Interesting what if: where would we be if Jeremy lamb had been given the leash afforded to Ferguson? Why is ferg being given this opportunity? Surely it's not the Tulsa aspect.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.

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