Julius Randle IS a 'cornerstone' player

[DaGawd]

to win a championship, there's like 3 or 4 guys you need as your number one option in any given year and quite often there's only 1 guy. occasionally someone outside that group makes it but it's rare. randle is not ever gonna be in that list. but if you wait to get one of the guys, you might be waiting forever.

Facts.. some on this board act as if those type of players grow on trees.. those are generational types

[Oscirus]

You guys are nuts if you don't see that RJB Mitch IQ have been the biggest contributors to this team this season outside of Randle. We're hovering around .500 instead of being putrid and it's in large part to the kids.

Progress. Did you expect them to go from basement to unbeatable in one season?

Rj went from at one point averaging the most minutes in the league to not even finishing games anymore. Iqs minutes have been wildly inconsistent and teams are starting to figure him out. Mitch has been the same but with less offense. They've all legit regressed over the course of a half-season.

In other words, the development of our youngsters has been a huge fail partially due to this win at all costs narrative that thibs employs. Hell, thibs can't even be asked to develop the rookie that he wanted.

I’d say Thibs is developing them just fine and within the confines of winning basketball games. Development doesn’t mean letting a dude who clearly isn’t getting the job done continuously jack up shots to take the team out of the game or letting a dude whose defense is suffering stay out there and continue to be torched. As we’ve seen with Thibs he’ll often give extended time to the guys who establish themselves over the course of a game. If you have it going that night or have an exploitable matchup advantage your number will be called

Really? Tell me one young player who's better now than he was at the beginning of the season. Hell, tell me one that's even the same. Players are legit regressing under thibs version of "winning" basketball and we're over here ready to build
around a fringe all star player who will likely draw the max. The situations problematic to say the least

[KnixtapeH20]

We're 14-15 in the **** east. That's barely Kemba Walker or Nik Vucevic territory. Some of you are so thirsty for hope it's kind of sad. I guess for folks who started post 2002 or so it's different.

Ok? We have no talent around him. We're a gritty defensive team like the 90s Knicks.

Been watching since the 90's fam

I'd kill for Allan Houston on this team

We in no way compare to the 90's Knicks. That team was STACKED with talent.

My g u realize thats the second time in this same topic you just made up a statement that I aint even say anything close to?

I said we're a gritty defensive team like the 90s Knicks. Stop me when you have a problem with that statement.

[NewKnicks]

He will push for the max in 2022. I think we will be capped out by then.

And we'll give it to him, whether he is truly a max player in the league or not. And that will affect our decisions for many years to come. We're in a scary situation as a franchise. Either Randle's the real deal and he deserves the max, or we sign him to the max and f*ck up our franchise for another 5 years.

Consider the scenario that we max out Randle, and then he reverts to Julius of last year. Now we're screwed as a franchise all over again. I really hope our front office is up to the task this time in terms of making the right decisions.

Personally, I don't want a max Randle. This year is the anomaly in Juluis' career so far. That doesn't mean he won't stay at his current level of play, but it definitely should be a huge consideration that he might revert back to the mean.

He’s a late bloomer.. it happens

True, and we can only hope that's exactly what is happening.

It could also be that he's just one of those players that puts up huge numbers on a below average team. That is also very common.

I like Julius a lot (how could you not?), but how good is he truly? None of us know. A lot of players have incredible years 1 or 2 times in their career, and then they go back to their 'average' level of play.

Again, whether or not to max Randle will be one of the biggest decisions our franchise will make, and will affect our success for years to come.

[god shammgod]

to win a championship, there's like 3 or 4 guys you need as your number one option in any given year and quite often there's only 1 guy. occasionally someone outside that group makes it but it's rare. randle is not ever gonna be in that list. but if you wait to get one of the guys, you might be waiting forever.

Facts.. some on this board act as if those type of players grow on trees.. those are generational types

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

[moocow007]

Except he's showing out and not getting more money.

That max he's getting next season is the same money.

Exactly.

The way that the NBA is structured right now where the max salaries are just so much disproportionately larger than the salary cap a team has to operate under that it's all about timing. You don't sign on max or high salary players over time. You do it in one shot by landing big contracts in one offseason while the core guys you do have still do not have crazy big cap holds.

The Knicks opportunity to make this jump in this 'window' is this offseason.

Robinson will still be a small caphold. Randle will still be a (relatively) small caphold (for an All-Star level talent). Barrett is still relatively small for what he can produce. Quickley is a 25th overall pick small. No other big contracts belonging to players that won't be part of the go forward is on the books. You have a coach that the stars know and like (from Team USA). You have a front office filled with respected guys from respected organizations. You haven't heard a peep out of James Dolan.

Randle, Barrett, Robinson, Quickley may not be franchise players but they are very much top notch quality players all with plenty of years on the upswing. If the Knicks can land someone like LaVine (who's salary is also relatively light for his All-Star level abilities) then you've got one heck of a team that a 'franchise' type player would actually find very appealing. And even if it's not a super max franchise type, it's some other impact level player (or two) that can make this team an extremely dangerous team with all of the players being high value, high asset types that then can give you, in subsequent years, the ability to trade for the elite players if nothing pops in this offseason.

Is this what the Knicks front office sees and is planning around? IMHO? Yes.

Derrick Rose was just to add a guy for the bench and the locker room to help this team win. He's not some demon that was going to take IQ's minutes or ball stop or any of that panicked nonsense. He cost the Knicks pretty much nothing nor does adding Rose for DSJr prevent them from making bigger moves before the deadline (which I strongly believe is what they are working on) to better position themselves for the offseason and beyond. Winning doesn't mean not improving for the long term. For the Knicks one actually helps the other for what appears to be what their plan is. Winning not only makes this team more attractive to free agents, it makes the players they have more valuable in terms of assets.

The issue with trading for Lavine is that the Bulls will be asking (and getting) probably 2 of IQ/RJ/Mitch. Lavine's price is going to much higher than people think. Although I don't think the Bulls want to trade him anyway (completely different topic).

Bulls will ask for:

2-3 #1's, plus one or two of RJ/IQ/Mitch. A good portion of the teams in the league will pursue him as well if he's truly available. That will continue to drive the price up.

Not saying you said this, but I don't want to mortgage the future again by giving up a huge chunk of our assets. We're not ready as a franchise to make this type of move.

Value is dependent on the market. The market is based on teams that have the assets AND are wanting to trade for a guy like LaVine.

So they same way not panicking about having to max out Randle or that Randle is somehow faking this season out, so I would suggest folks not panicking about what it takes to get a LaVine or similar player. The Knicks have a ton of draft picks. They have a lottery player they just drafted in Obi.

Do you guys honestly believe that Leon Rose is amassing all those picks because he's planning to use it? Do you guys really believe that now that Randle (who is only 26) has finally taken the next step that they are thinking about how to develop Obi Toppin?

Mortgaging the future?

What if your plan says your future is now. Again, let's also be honest here, Leon Rose didn't get hired to do a 'traditional' rebuild.
Nor would Rose hire a win now coach and add all these guys from winning organizations to his staff to bunker down for a long rebuild. So it should be crystal clear here what their future is now. As such what does that make the value of future assets? At some point it has to be about the here and now is what I think folks are missing. You can't keep chasing the future. There's a popular saying "tomorrow is always a day away". If you keep looking for tomorrow you'll never get to where you need to go.

The Knicks problems in the past has been lack of a plan and lack of the brainpower to execute the plan to success...not about traditional rebuilds or win now moves...they tried and failed at both cause they didn't have the front office and/or luck to pull either off. They tried to win now moves and got outwitted by Pat the Rat (for example) or didn't have the concept of managing cap space. They tried the traditional rebuilds but just couldn't luck into the draft positions (now that tanking for top picks is MUCH harder) to get the players that would impact the team. Looks like this time around the Knicks might finally have that (20 years later). Just so happens it appears that their plan is to win sooner than later.

So...since it's pretty clear that they have a plan (win now) so we have 2 choices here. 1) hold our breath and hope that they continue to build through the draft by holding onto future assets OR 2) accept that they are trying to make a quick jump to contention and that everything is being maneuvered to make that happen now (meaning future assets being converted to present assets is very much what it likely would mean). And if that's the case, then the focus should be on how best to leverage the future assets to get present day assets.

[nedleeds]

I'm not ready to take it that far, but I get your point. Can a 4 that needs the ball in his hands all the time bring a chip in the current NBA? That's a huge question that I guess we'll eventually find out.

I don't think the intention is ever to keep Randle as our #1. I do think he can be a part of the team's vision going forward without being the franchise player.

Just like Melo should have been, TBH.

Then that begs the question.. can Randle be just as effective of a player when he's a 3rd option on a great team? The other two 'stars' would need and want the ball as well, which obviously means a lot less touches for Randle.

It's really going to be interesting to see how this thing plays out.

If he can shoot 40% from 3 on the 1st unit, and you can run offense through him with your second unit then absolutely he can be the 3rd best player on a good team. Especially if he's on the 2nd unit as a small ball center. Even better if your starting center can shoot (not super common).

Like

Richardson
Timmy
Luka
Randle
KP

or

Murray
Harris
Barton / MPJ
Randle
Jokic

or

Conley
Mitchell
Bogs
Randle
Gobert

... but without believing in Randles 3-ball he's useless at the 4 for any competitive team.

[DaGawd]

to win a championship, there's like 3 or 4 guys you need as your number one option in any given year and quite often there's only 1 guy. occasionally someone outside that group makes it but it's rare. randle is not ever gonna be in that list. but if you wait to get one of the guys, you might be waiting forever.

Facts.. some on this board act as if those type of players grow on trees.. those are generational types

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land

[nedleeds]

Just seen this...option year/showing out for more money, come on bruh.

Except he's showing out and not getting more money.

That max he's getting next season is the same money.

More money as in longer years.

His play is motivated by the potential of getting more over an extended period of time which would technically begin next year & in order to obtain that he would need to show out or we decline the option.

Or lose him for nothing if we don't max him and he walks Kemba Walker style after next year, as opposed to just trading him now if the league buyers believe he has value. They'll get 1 1/2 year of him making him less of a rental and even give the new team to decide on him, or align a cap space window with his expiring.

[NewKnicks]

Ok? We have no talent around him. We're a gritty defensive team like the 90s Knicks.

Been watching since the 90's fam

I'd kill for Allan Houston on this team

We in no way compare to the 90's Knicks. That team was STACKED with talent.

My g u realize thats the second time in this same topic you just made up a statement that I aint even say anything close to?

I said we're a gritty defensive team like the 90s Knicks. Stop me when you have a problem with that statement.

i will stop you. Those 90's Knicks battled MJ and the Bulls year in and year out. Our D is not even close to those Knicks teams.

[cgf]

I could not agree more. Our fanbase doesn't lack for passion, but patience is another matter entirely.

Go look at the BKN game thread and PG thread. If you ever wanted to see how ridiculously impatient this base is, that's it in a nutshell.

There's also massive impatience to wait for things to materialize through smart decision making.

Downplaying draft position, asset acquisition and youth development has been proven wrong time and again, yet it's always going to come up b/c ppl don't have the patience for the long term view. They want progress now.

For once we have kids pushing this forward, so both sides get something from our current position. Yet neither side is happy

What kids are pushing this forward? RJ's on the verge if hes not already out of the closing line up and iq is a few bad shooting games from falling out of the rotation. Everybody else getting significant burn are vets.

What are you talking about? RJ is 6th in the NBA in minutes; Julius leads the entire league in playing time; Mitch was 3rd on our team in mpg before getting hurt; IQ has seen his role continue to increase as the season goes along & he grows more consistent; while Obi is getting regular minutes...even if ideally he would get ~4 minutes more a game.

[nedleeds]

Facts.. some on this board act as if those type of players grow on trees.. those are generational types

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land

LeBron
Kawhi
Curry
Dirk

all won titles with the teams that drafted them. That's actually everyone on the list except Durant. Who made the Finals at least. We need to draft and develop a difference maker instead of trying the free agents will like us limp dick plan. It seems like we'll never get a number 1 pick, or have a team pass on Durant and pick Oden ahead of us but it's the best route to real finals level contention.

*Edit: Yes technically the Bucks picked Dirk and he was traded on draft night for Tractor Trailor.

*Edit 2: I just learned Tractor Traylor is dead. RIP.

[KnixtapeH20]

Are you kidding me stop the homer **** he needs to get traded sell high

Whate exactly is homer **** about what he said I'm dying to know.

We're 14-16 in a garbage conference with Julius in rarified air. Randle is shooting 40% from 3, vs. 28% last year (and 22%, 27%, 34% and 28% in his other years). Maybe this is permanent change in his outside shooting or it's small sample size. He's mostly in rarified air because we start the worst point guard in organized basketball and Randle runs our offense (that is currently 108.2 (24th of 30)).

So rah rah we're 14-16 in the East. All his numbers have created a bottom 6 offense in the league. If the league thinks he's "LeBron Lite" and some of the bonkers stuff in this thread then he'd net a massive haul because LeBron is a top 3 player in the league.

Bro I'm not sure why u keep bringing up record when Elfrid Payton is our pg. the worst starting point that wouldn't rven be most teams backup pg.. . . How many of our starting players would start for the other 29 teams in the league?

I'm not sure the point u just argued... ? That its crazy to call Randle LeBron lite in this stretch of games hes showing?

How many games do you think LeBron is winning on our team? Please dont even mention Cleveland because they had a much more talented roster. We have journey men and backups -- as starters on 1 year contracts.

[NewKnicks]

to win a championship, there's like 3 or 4 guys you need as your number one option in any given year and quite often there's only 1 guy. occasionally someone outside that group makes it but it's rare. randle is not ever gonna be in that list. but if you wait to get one of the guys, you might be waiting forever.

Facts.. some on this board act as if those type of players grow on trees.. those are generational types

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

I haven't kept up on all your posts, so what do you think we should do? Are you in the max Randle category or not? I'm thinking you're saying you're not, but just want to confirm.

And thanks for allowing me into your RealGM fam and not bashing me too much along the way.

[god shammgod]

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land

LeBron
Kawhi
Curry
Dirk

all won titles with the teams that drafted them. That's actually everyone on the list except Durant. Who made the Finals at least. We need to draft and develop a difference maker instead of trying the free agents will like us limp dick plan. It seems like we'll never get a number 1 pick, or have a team pass on Durant and pick Oden ahead of us but it's the best route to real finals level contention.

*Edit: Yes technically the Bucks picked Dirk and he was traded on draft night for Tractor Trailor.

*Edit 2: I just learned Tractor Traylor is dead. RIP.

only 1 of those guys was picked in the top 5

[god shammgod]

Facts.. some on this board act as if those type of players grow on trees.. those are generational types

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

I haven't kept up on all your posts, so what do you think we should do? Are you in the max Randle category or not? I'm thinking you're saying you're not, but just want to confirm.

And thanks for allowing me into your RealGM fam and not bashing me too much along the way.

i think you have another year at 20 mill and you'll be able to figure it out after. there's no reason to decide now.

[DaGawd]

all you do is gotta look at the list of champions. the last 10 years.

bron
kawhi
durant
durant
bron
curry
kawhi
bron
bron
dirk

outside of curry and dirk getting 1 each, 3 guys won all the championships. this year the teams people think are mostly likely to win it all are the teams led by bron & durant. they tell you it's a team sport, they lie.

Yup.. and further more most of these guys didn’t win with only the team that drafted them..they switch situations at some point. If the Knicks start committing to building solid teams that can lead to attracting on of these mythical creatures to lead us to the promise land

LeBron
Kawhi
Curry
Dirk

all won titles with the teams that drafted them. That's actually everyone on the list except Durant. Who made the Finals at least. We need to draft and develop a difference maker instead of trying the free agents will like us limp dick plan. It seems like we'll never get a number 1 pick, or have a team pass on Durant and pick Oden ahead of us but it's the best route to real finals level contention.

*Edit: Yes technically the Bucks picked Dirk and he was traded on draft night for Tractor Trailor.

*Edit 2: I just learned Tractor Traylor is dead. RIP.

Lebron had to leave Cleveland and win his first two with the heat before deciding he had unfinished business and went back. Kawhi won one with a loaded spurs team and he wasn’t even really the man yet until later on but they didn’t win another title with him as the lead guy and he decided he wanted out.. Curry and Dirk are the only ones that really stand out and true winners with their drafted team

[nedleeds]

Whate exactly is homer **** about what he said I'm dying to know.

We're 14-16 in a garbage conference with Julius in rarified air. Randle is shooting 40% from 3, vs. 28% last year (and 22%, 27%, 34% and 28% in his other years). Maybe this is permanent change in his outside shooting or it's small sample size. He's mostly in rarified air because we start the worst point guard in organized basketball and Randle runs our offense (that is currently 108.2 (24th of 30)).

So rah rah we're 14-16 in the East. All his numbers have created a bottom 6 offense in the league. If the league thinks he's "LeBron Lite" and some of the bonkers stuff in this thread then he'd net a massive haul because LeBron is a top 3 player in the league.

Bro I'm not sure why u keep bringing up record when Elfrid Payton is our pg. the worst starting point that wouldn't rven be most teams backup pg.. . . How many of our starting players would start for the other 29 teams in the league?

I'm not sure the point u just argued... ? That its crazy to call Randle LeBron lite in this stretch of games hes showing?

How many games do you think LeBron is winning on our team? Please dont even mention Cleveland because they had a much more talented roster. We have journey men and backups -- as starters on 1 year contracts.

LeBron swapped for Randle and we'd be a top 3 seed easily. LeBron, IQ, Bullock, RJ and Mitch. You and me on the bench is a top 3 seed. That's how good LeBron is and how immensely far away from him Randle is ... the LeBron lite stuff in this thread is what I was responding to. It's like saying a candle is Sun lite.

Because we're below .500 in a historically awful conference. Losing to bad teams without 3 starters. Floating one of the worst 6 offenses on Earth. All while having the best covid luck in the league.

[KnixtapeH20]

We in no way compare to the 90's Knicks. That team was STACKED with talent.

My g u realize thats the second time in this same topic you just made up a statement that I aint even say anything close to?

I said we're a gritty defensive team like the 90s Knicks. Stop me when you have a problem with that statement.

i will stop you. Those 90's Knicks battled MJ and the Bulls year in and year out. Our D is not even close to those Knicks teams.

So we're not a gritty team?

Are we not a defensive minded team?
Are we not a top 2 defensive team in the entire league?

Why u gotta add statements that I never said? Where did I said this was the 90s Knicks?

I said "We're a gritty defensive team like the 90s Knicks"


Where in that statement did I say anything not factual?

[NewKnicks]

Exactly.

The way that the NBA is structured right now where the max salaries are just so much disproportionately larger than the salary cap a team has to operate under that it's all about timing. You don't sign on max or high salary players over time. You do it in one shot by landing big contracts in one offseason while the core guys you do have still do not have crazy big cap holds.

The Knicks opportunity to make this jump in this 'window' is this offseason.

Robinson will still be a small caphold. Randle will still be a (relatively) small caphold (for an All-Star level talent). Barrett is still relatively small for what he can produce. Quickley is a 25th overall pick small. No other big contracts belonging to players that won't be part of the go forward is on the books. You have a coach that the stars know and like (from Team USA). You have a front office filled with respected guys from respected organizations. You haven't heard a peep out of James Dolan.

Randle, Barrett, Robinson, Quickley may not be franchise players but they are very much top notch quality players all with plenty of years on the upswing. If the Knicks can land someone like LaVine (who's salary is also relatively light for his All-Star level abilities) then you've got one heck of a team that a 'franchise' type player would actually find very appealing. And even if it's not a super max franchise type, it's some other impact level player (or two) that can make this team an extremely dangerous team with all of the players being high value, high asset types that then can give you, in subsequent years, the ability to trade for the elite players if nothing pops in this offseason.

Is this what the Knicks front office sees and is planning around? IMHO? Yes.

Derrick Rose was just to add a guy for the bench and the locker room to help this team win. He's not some demon that was going to take IQ's minutes or ball stop or any of that panicked nonsense. He cost the Knicks pretty much nothing nor does adding Rose for DSJr prevent them from making bigger moves before the deadline (which I strongly believe is what they are working on) to better position themselves for the offseason and beyond. Winning doesn't mean not improving for the long term. For the Knicks one actually helps the other for what appears to be what their plan is. Winning not only makes this team more attractive to free agents, it makes the players they have more valuable in terms of assets.

The issue with trading for Lavine is that the Bulls will be asking (and getting) probably 2 of IQ/RJ/Mitch. Lavine's price is going to much higher than people think. Although I don't think the Bulls want to trade him anyway (completely different topic).

Bulls will ask for:

2-3 #1's, plus one or two of RJ/IQ/Mitch. A good portion of the teams in the league will pursue him as well if he's truly available. That will continue to drive the price up.

Not saying you said this, but I don't want to mortgage the future again by giving up a huge chunk of our assets. We're not ready as a franchise to make this type of move.

Value is dependent on the market. The market is based on teams that have the assets AND are wanting to trade for a guy like LaVine.

So they same way not panicking about having to max out Randle or that Randle is somehow faking this season out, so I would suggest folks not panicking about what it takes to get a LaVine or similar player. The Knicks have a ton of draft picks. They have a lottery player they just drafted in Obi.

Do you guys honestly believe that Leon Rose is amassing all those picks because he's planning to use it? Do you guys really believe that now that Randle (who is only 26) has finally taken the next step that they are thinking about how to develop Obi Toppin?

Mortgaging the future?

What if your plan says your future is now. Again, let's also be honest here, Leon Rose didn't get hired to do a 'traditional' rebuild.
Nor would Rose hire a win now coach and add all these guys from winning organizations to his staff to bunker down for a long rebuild. So it should be crystal clear here what their future is now. As such what does that make the value of future assets? At some point it has to be about the here and now is what I think folks are missing. You can't keep chasing the future. There's a popular saying "tomorrow is always a day away". If you keep looking for tomorrow you'll never get to where you need to go.

The Knicks problems in the past has been lack of a plan and lack of the brainpower to execute the plan to success...not about traditional rebuilds or win now moves...they tried and failed at both cause they didn't have the front office and/or luck to pull either off. They tried to win now moves and got outwitted by Pat the Rat (for example) or didn't have the concept of managing cap space. They tried the traditional rebuilds but just couldn't luck into the draft positions (now that tanking for top picks is MUCH harder) to get the players that would impact the team. Looks like this time around the Knicks might finally have that (20 years later). Just so happens it appears that their plan is to win sooner than later.

So...since it's pretty clear that they have a plan (win now) so we have 2 choices here. 1) hold our breath and hope that they continue to build through the draft by holding onto future assets OR 2) accept that they are trying to make a quick jump to contention and that everything is being maneuvered to make that happen now (meaning future assets being converted to present assets is very much what it likely would mean). And if that's the case, then the focus should be on how best to leverage the future assets to get present day assets.

I still want to try something different as a franchise, as in keeping assets and building through the draft. We always fail when we try to trade for the next big 'star'.

I'm not saying don't trade some of our assets that fit the plan (and age) of our current build, but I don't want to give up a significant portion of our assets for one player. We are not one player away from contending. I know you didn't say that either, but if we trade for a Beal or Lavine or assets will be completely gutted in one move.

We don't know if our front office is up to the task of being great at drafting yet. They might be, although I think the Obi pick was terrible.

Let's say we don't make any of these moves, and then we hit big on a player (or two) in the next draft? We'll be in much better position doing that than giving up those same picks for a Beal/Lavine.

On the flipside based on what you said, it does feel that Leon is piling up for a big move soon.

I just want us to build a championship roster, not a roster than competes and gets bounced in the 2nd round year after year.