PG: Close, but no cigar

[dougthonus]

I have no problem with the last play. I think anyone complaining about it is just complaining because it missed.

First, you have to realize with a shade less than five seconds, you probably aren't going to get a good look. It just typically takes longer than that to generate a good look.

Next, we did in fact get a pretty good look. One of our two best scorers gets off a mid range jumper that is in his range, maybe 1 step beyond his wheel house, but well in his range. It's not a fade away, it's not off a crazy spin move, he gets to go straight up and shoot a 18-19 footer.

That's probably a 50/50 shot for DeMar, and you with sub 5 seconds, a 50/50 shot is actually a really, really good look. That is a time where you are frequently talking about 20/80 type shots.

[weneeda2guard]

Sucked to lose...but the last two games are good lessons going forward. Some adjustments in scheme, and an adjustment to the roster (need another big....tired of getting killed on the boards) will put this team in a really good position.

The team is still learning to play together, and we know we have a bit of a hole at PF at the moment. Williams may or may not be the future in that spot, but regardless, we need a bit more beef. The team looked a lot different when Tony was in at center. Put-backs are a thing.

In the first half a thing I noticed was us taking off on misses hoping for quick transition points instead of securing the boards which led to the offensive rebounding. We not getting killed on defensive boards its the offensive boards that have hurt us. We can do a better job there by simply putting 2 people on the boards instead of just Vucevic or whoever at the 4.

[Ice Man]

Surely less than 50%. He's a 39% career shooter on long 2s, and that shot was more contested than most. So I don't think it was a very good play for the final 5 seconds. But I've seen worse. Besides, the big issue is not being 12 points behind in the first place, so that the team has to hope for a miracle finish.

[ChettheJet]

They lost getting down by 14 points, not on the last shot. They did this last year got in a deep hole and came oh so close to pulling out a win. Last night they shot poorly as a group. This was the night they should have had PW on the weak side behind the line so Zach and Demar could make one pass out of the double team and then the next pass would be to the corner.

The rotation as is, with PW healthy, is good enough to beat the bottom half of the standings. But they absolutely need a genuine backup PF because as hard as Green plays and as much energy he brings, he's still 6-4 and he's not a PF. You are not going to win games when you have your starting PG at 6-6 guarding a 6-9 PF who started at center for your opponent. The four guard set works fine if the other team has four smaller wing players, if they've got a legit PF out there, you've got that one wrong match up for sure.

[Portiseyes]

Excuse the late night burst of anger but I'm feeling pretty frustrated with Bulls fans on this board. PWill gets injured after taking a palm to the face from a 7ft goon, nowhere in the vicinity of the ball, and we're like hey Knicks fans great game, duhhh doopity dooo. Nah man, F that, someone needs to take an elbow to RJ's dome piece. And how about we try to show some more loyalty to the players on our team who are sweating and bleeding on the court???

I don’t think any of us are being disloyal…even if we won the game, there would still be people complaining about offense, defense, bench play, coaching, etc. I know given our history, we are supposed to hate the Knicks, but lets be real….there has been no rivalry in decades, because neither team has been good at the same time, so the hate has probably waned a bit. It’s good to have both teams back, and doing well. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that the other team played well. From the second quarter onward, we were fighting from behind the whole way, and had multiple times to take the lead, but couldn’t. If it was one of those back to back rematches, I think the bulls make their adjustments, and take the win…but we can look forward to their next game, and hopefully by then, we can be a better well oiled machine.

No one wants to see anyone hurt though. We’ve dealt with too many injuries as a franchise, to even condone trying to hurt another player on an opposing team.

I'm not saying don't analyze the game, nor am I suggesting to seriously injure anyone... I'm saying PWill got injured on an elbows out goonish play and we're like oh, darn, hope he's not hurt. Well I'd rather be dealing than receiving, and not feeling the weak response on Joakim Noah night.

[Red8911]

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You can tell Thibs REALLY wanted to win this game and would of got depressed if Derozen hit that last shot. He is still bitter that he got fired.

[panthermark]

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Caruso's defense was simply amazing. Love the playoff atmosphere at UC.

Our top 5 guys Vuc, Zo, Zach, Caruso, Derozan (in no order) are relatively "high end" NBA talent. I'm thinking, is the gap in terms of quality between those 5 and the next group Green, TBJ, Patrick, Alize, Bradley, DJJ too wide (low-end unproven talent)? (Coby hasn't played so I leave him out). We need probably 2 more guys closer to the top 5 groups in terms of proven quality to take this team to the next level. Proven veteran role players.

a bit out of topic, I didn't really care that we didn't go for Larry Nance Jr, in that Lauri trade. I thought DJJ may be good enough to help us. But he hasn't seen the floor a single minute. Larry Nance Jr. can probably do more than Pat at this point. At least I have an option to go with Nance if I need to sit Pat.

I agree with the talent perspective.
Ball, Lavine, DD, and Vuc...plus Caruso as a reserve/closer. That is high level.
I like Green as a rotational bench player.
Jury is still out on White and Williams.

One problem is that Vuc is the only true "big" of the group.
One problem is experience (players playing together AND coaching).
One problem is that our bench scoring sucks. (But Coby is tailor made to be a bench scorer)

Assuming (hoping) Williams and White can contribute....this team is "experience" and a rotational big away from being a serious threat.

[Michael Jackson]

Defense is desire and knowing your opponent. Was Bill Russel more athletic than Wilt? RJ has good hands, good footwork and he is long. On offense he knows how to use his length against smaller opponents. Like I said he is Deng, but still more athletic. Toppin needs to keep learning from Taj too. That is. A perfect mentor for him. Thibs is my favorite coach ever, aside from him wearing guys out, but damn if he doesn’t make them reach potential.

Said the same thing this week. Taj has already blessed Obi who is starting to show signs. Taj is one of my favorite players now. Just fantastic guy to have on your team and he’s won games for us.

George Foreman’s Grill wouldn’t stand a chance against the Tom Thibodeau Juicer. He squeezes out the last drop

I never understood why he gets so much hate from the general fan base and media. The "he runs his players into the ground" thing is way overblown. Good players want to play and play a lot (unless your Ben Simmons). A coaches job is to win basketball games. And all he's ever done is win basketball games. There are franchises like the Kings and Pistons that haven't won a playoff game in over a decade. Thibs won a playoff SERIES with Nate Robinson as his best offensive player. And then I'm the next round stole a game against LeBron 's Heat with that same Nate Robinson led roster.

Everyone always thinks teams should go with the hot big name over proven success. That's how you end up with the David Fizdales of the league.

Thibs is by far my favorite coach, but he does run guys too hard. You can only redline for so long without consequence unless you are a special type like Mj or even a Butler. Most players will breakdown (Rose, Noah, Deng) just because. I so love the attitude though and he gets players at a peak they shouldn't arrive at, but it isn't sustainable for the long run in most cases. Still as a fan I love the guy. No one gets more juice squeezed than that man.

[Michael Jackson]

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Caruso's defense was simply amazing. Love the playoff atmosphere at UC.

Our top 5 guys Vuc, Zo, Zach, Caruso, Derozan (in no order) are relatively "high end" NBA talent. I'm thinking, is the gap in terms of quality between those 5 and the next group Green, TBJ, Patrick, Alize, Bradley, DJJ too wide (low-end unproven talent)? (Coby hasn't played so I leave him out). We need probably 2 more guys closer to the top 5 groups in terms of proven quality to take this team to the next level. Proven veteran role players.

a bit out of topic, I didn't really care that we didn't go for Larry Nance Jr, in that Lauri trade. I thought DJJ may be good enough to help us. But he hasn't seen the floor a single minute. Larry Nance Jr. can probably do more than Pat at this point. At least I have an option to go with Nance if I need to sit Pat.

I agree with the talent perspective.
Ball, Lavine, DD, and Vuc...plus Caruso as a reserve/closer. That is high level.
I like Green as a rotational bench player.
Jury is still out on White and Williams.

One problem is that Vuc is the only true "big" of the group.
One problem is experience (players playing together AND coaching).
One problem is that our bench scoring sucks. (But Coby is tailor made to be a bench scorer)

Assuming (hoping) Williams and White can contribute....this team is "experience" and a rotational big away from being a serious threat.

Bulls prioritized front end talent over depth, but spread it out. They also prioritized active athletic players off the bench over more skilled, better fit players. In many ways we are looking at Billy's Florida teams or at least that approach not nessecarily a mirror of them. Part of that, is it was what was available, b ut it is a direction. You are banking on a couple of these guys taking leaps though and it is really an open competition. Pat they are invested in and are giving more rope because he is the highest draft pick (outside of Lonzo but we know what Lonzo is) out there and still young. He will have his wings clipped at some point though if he doesn't show up. Thats why they traded away the squad they had, and didn't want the picks. They re trying to develop just Pat and Ayo right now. Coby is at his sink or swim point. There is only so much time you can develop players in any given season.

Pat worries me of course, but MPJ even coming off of back injury took a minute to start blossoming. He now got a max extension (which he is under performing but the point still stands) and that is the culture that AK is from. Murray and Jokic didn't jump off the page either immediately. I think they will give Williams his shot as long as internally they are seeing him do the things they ask him to do. We don't know what it is we just see what we can see and it is frustrating, but they might have a plan (and that plan could be to trade him sooner than later, I don't know)

[Michael Jackson]

I have no problem with the last play. I think anyone complaining about it is just complaining because it missed.

First, you have to realize with a shade less than five seconds, you probably aren't going to get a good look. It just typically takes longer than that to generate a good look.

Next, we did in fact get a pretty good look. One of our two best scorers gets off a mid range jumper that is in his range, maybe 1 step beyond his wheel house, but well in his range. It's not a fade away, it's not off a crazy spin move, he gets to go straight up and shoot a 18-19 footer.

That's probably a 50/50 shot for DeMar, and you with sub 5 seconds, a 50/50 shot is actually a really, really good look. That is a time where you are frequently talking about 20/80 type shots.

Very true the play was fine. The shot was off but it was a good play to run. The Bulls didn't deserve to win, the win in that game was that they didn't fold under the Knicks pressure and fought back. Would a W have been sweeter? Yes of course, but this isn't a team that is one that is going to steam roll through the league, this is a team that has a lot to learn and is middle to upper middle quality. Say a 50 win team at best, not a 60 + win team. This loss was appropriate. If at the end of the season they are still stumped by Toronto or Knicks defenses I will join the lynch mob, but I expect growth. I don't expect perfection right now. I saw what I needed and that was a team that wasn't scared. I would like to see Zach not whine though

[kodo]

Surely less than 50%. He's a 39% career shooter on long 2s, and that shot was more contested than most. So I don't think it was a very good play for the final 5 seconds. But I've seen worse. Besides, the big issue is not being 12 points behind in the first place, so that the team has to hope for a miracle finish.

Agreed. Derozan is a mid range & slasher guy, that shot was basically a 3 pointer. He was started his move at the above the break 3 point line, was only about a foot in. The other issue was there was clearly a decision point where either Derozan or Lavine could have gotten the ball on the handoff, and 6' 8" RJ took DDR while Fournier was on Lavine. I liked the Lavine vs Fournier matchup much better, especially since with 4 seconds the shot is almost certainly going to be a long range shot.

If this play happened as designed, it wasn't a great one. Buuuuut everyone played their hearts out even getting to this point, the game wasn't lost on this play. Heck, might as well complain about the clear path non-call.

I still the think the overall loss was due to length. When Vuc was in, we were +8 yet we still lose by 1. Vuc isn't a superstar. He just has length and can board. And by length I don't even mean matching up to 6' 11" guys like Giannis or AD, we couldn't even handle the 6' 8" guys Randle & RJ.

When people say smallball works, "small" means 6' 8" guys like Tobias Harris. We're putting point guards and 6' 3" Javonte Green on power forwards. We're playing munchkin-ball, not small-ball.

[Clyde_Style]

Defense is desire and knowing your opponent. Was Bill Russel more athletic than Wilt? RJ has good hands, good footwork and he is long. On offense he knows how to use his length against smaller opponents. Like I said he is Deng, but still more athletic. Toppin needs to keep learning from Taj too. That is. A perfect mentor for him. Thibs is my favorite coach ever, aside from him wearing guys out, but damn if he doesn’t make them reach potential.

Said the same thing this week. Taj has already blessed Obi who is starting to show signs. Taj is one of my favorite players now. Just fantastic guy to have on your team and he’s won games for us.

George Foreman’s Grill wouldn’t stand a chance against the Tom Thibodeau Juicer. He squeezes out the last drop

I never understood why he gets so much hate from the general fan base and media. The "he runs his players into the ground" thing is way overblown. Good players want to play and play a lot (unless your Ben Simmons). A coaches job is to win basketball games. And all he's ever done is win basketball games. There are franchises like the Kings and Pistons that haven't won a playoff game in over a decade. Thibs won a playoff SERIES with Nate Robinson as his best offensive player. And then I'm the next round stole a game against LeBron 's Heat with that same Nate Robinson led roster.

Everyone always thinks teams should go with the hot big name over proven success. That's how you end up with the David Fizdales of the league.

Fizdale is reviled by Knicks fans. Show us his goofy face and we turn into bloodthirsty savages. He is probably a nice man after all, but he's just a hustler who talked his way into jobs he had no business doing. The man can't coach his way out of a paper bag. I'm kind of shocked he even got an assistant gig again. Him and Mark Jackson should never coach again.

Nate the Great. I actually liked Nate. He was a freak athlete.

For a great Nate experience, this game was a classic

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Nate had shot the ball at the wrong basket at the end of a quarter and D'Antoni benched him for many games. The night he was let out of the doghouse he came off the bench and erupted for 41 points. It was one of the greatest eat chit performances of all time

[MrSparkle]

Said the same thing this week. Taj has already blessed Obi who is starting to show signs. Taj is one of my favorite players now. Just fantastic guy to have on your team and he’s won games for us.

George Foreman’s Grill wouldn’t stand a chance against the Tom Thibodeau Juicer. He squeezes out the last drop

I never understood why he gets so much hate from the general fan base and media. The "he runs his players into the ground" thing is way overblown. Good players want to play and play a lot (unless your Ben Simmons). A coaches job is to win basketball games. And all he's ever done is win basketball games. There are franchises like the Kings and Pistons that haven't won a playoff game in over a decade. Thibs won a playoff SERIES with Nate Robinson as his best offensive player. And then I'm the next round stole a game against LeBron 's Heat with that same Nate Robinson led roster.

Everyone always thinks teams should go with the hot big name over proven success. That's how you end up with the David Fizdales of the league.

Thibs is by far my favorite coach, but he does run guys too hard. You can only redline for so long without consequence unless you are a special type like Mj or even a Butler. Most players will breakdown (Rose, Noah, Deng) just because. I so love the attitude though and he gets players at a peak they shouldn't arrive at, but it isn't sustainable for the long run in most cases. Still as a fan I love the guy. No one gets more juice squeezed than that man.

I still don’t think he had anything to do with Rose, Noah and Deng. The latter two had way more injuries before Thibs even showed up, and I doubt 3 full seasons in Deng’s prime (2 of which were his only ASGs) were enough to ravage his career. Meanwhile Taj is still going strong. Clearly Rose trusts Thibs. Hard to imagine a guy trusting his coach if there was a compelling argument that Thibs accelerated his breakdown.

It just doesn’t add up. Noah might’ve pushed too hard in that 13/14 season. I think everybody did, except GarPax, who decided to give them a very aging 7-man rotation with no backup playmaker and 8 G-League/nursing-home scrubs. But I don’t think Thibs encouraged Noah to hurt himself with suicides in practice. He just establishes a winning culture where guys start valuing wins over coddling their bodies. But so many superstars do this; play through pain. It’s just that our guys didn’t have the skills like a Kobe or Wade to compensate when their knees and ankles were giving out.

In the end though, their play under Thibs earned them monster contracts that LAL and NYK had to eat for years later. I bet both dudes play their careers back the same way under Thibs if they had a choice.

[Ice Man]

When people say smallball works, "small" means 6' 8" guys like Tobias Harris. We're putting point guards and 6' 3" Javonte Green on power forwards. We're playing munchkin-ball, not small-ball.

Not just that, but non-shooting munchkins. It would be one thing if the bench got beaten on the boards and outmuscled but were a bunch of Kembas who could even the score with 3s. But our Try Hards can't do that. DeVonte, Troy, and Alize all have career 3-point percentages in the low 30s.

[logical_art]

I have no problem with the last play. I think anyone complaining about it is just complaining because it missed.

First, you have to realize with a shade less than five seconds, you probably aren't going to get a good look. It just typically takes longer than that to generate a good look.

Next, we did in fact get a pretty good look. One of our two best scorers gets off a mid range jumper that is in his range, maybe 1 step beyond his wheel house, but well in his range. It's not a fade away, it's not off a crazy spin move, he gets to go straight up and shoot a 18-19 footer.

That's probably a 50/50 shot for DeMar, and you with sub 5 seconds, a 50/50 shot is actually a really, really good look. That is a time where you are frequently talking about 20/80 type shots.

A 20 footer with two men on him including one of the best shot blockers in the sport? How is that a good outcome?

[Chi town]

Random Thoughts...

- We played meh. Knicks played more aggressive and shot better. We lost by one. We have more talent. We were shorthanded two rotation players.

- Knicks will be a top 5 East team. Barret has really improved. Quickly will get better. Randle's D has come along way. Thibs has done a good job and they could very easily take down a team like the Sixers or Heat. Thibs grinds his players but he has so much depth I think they can handle it.

- Lonzo has to be more aggressive and score on nights we aren't getting anything from our bench. He started 0-3 from three and was clapping after missed shots... upset. He's got to get over that and keep shooting and attacking. His D kept us in the game but he plays more aggressive on offense and finds his shot and we win that game.

- We need a bench scorer shooter badly. Coby will have a role that fits him perfectly when he returns and we will need his scoring.

- PW showed a couple flashes on offense and D before he got cheap shotted at the rim. Without him at PF we are screwed. Just not enough size and strength. Alize ain't it. Bradly needs to play over him.

- Sad to say... TBJ ain't it either. IN thse playoff type games he just not strong or aggressive enough. He turned it over a couple times at the rim.

- Taj was huge for the Knicks lastnight. His impact for us would be massive. We need a tough vet big like him. Think we will get one once buyouts start.

[GoBlue72391]

Hard for me to be mad at tonight's outcome. Didnt play well but didnt lay down either.

Beyond that, saw a lot of Bulls legends that defined the last 13 years of my life. Kurt Thomas, Ben Gordon, C-Booz, Aaron Gray, Lu Deng, Kirk, Keith Bogan.

Cool ass night.

Ben Gordon was a very pleasant surprise. I was very excited to see he was there and I hope that means he's doing better now.

[GoBlue72391]

What did we all make of Tony Bradley's 6 minutes.

I thought he did something we haven't seen from this team so far in that he actually effected shots at the rim.

Would really like to see him get some more run

He was solid and provided some much needed size. I think he'll be a competent backup if we give him more minutes.

[GoBlue72391]

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Clamps Mode: ACTIVATED

[GoBlue72391]

AK threw all our eggs into the Patrick Williams gamble, and we're seeing the results.

Yea, fire the bum!

The man has worked a miracle with the roster. He believes Theis was not the answer, I trust him. 1 year and we are a legit playoff team and possible contender. What can he do in year two? At the same rate it will be Champs, then another year equals dynasty.

Is that not good enough? It has to be right now?

I know you believe you could have done better, but I question that. Sorry, I am glad to have AK.

This response is absurd.

Just because AK has done an overall fantastic job (and he absolutely has) doesn't make him immune to any criticism whatsoever. I don't see anyone calling for his job and I don't see anyone saying they could have done better, just questioning going all-in on PWill, which is a perfectly reasonable criticism at this point.

Everyone is open to criticism regardless of how good they are at their job.