PG: Knicks lose to Pacers - Thibs is a Terrorist

[knicksstuff]

We are almost there to go on a 10 game win streak.....Need cam Payne and Precious back in the next week and we will be fine

[Wildcat]

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I don't even want to defend Thibs right now and I even I think the pace stat is stupid.

[stuporman]

Are we allowed to take something positive from the fact that the Knicks were in a position to win the game of every loss this season except for the Boston game and it's about 4th quarter execution on both ends? No?

Ok...I'll show myself out.

[sol537]

Are we allowed to take something positive from the fact that the Knicks were in a position to win the game of every loss this season except for the Boston game and it's about 4th quarter execution on both ends? No?

Ok...I'll show myself out.

4th quarter execution or 4th quarter fatigue? If anyone else of the top 6 misses time due to injury/illness...I fear for what Thibs might do...

[j4remi]

I think I forgot to drop the link for this

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[whocares1]

So it's not a Thibs problem that he can't adapt, everyone else needs to conform to him?

It is a Thibs problem but it’s like wanting your girl to change after you just got married to her lol. FO knows how Thibs operates. They saw how he handled Fournier, Kemba, the first pick they ever made (Obi). If they had a problem with his philosophy why did they sign him to an extension?

the only non defender we acquired was KAT...and we are replacing him with arguably just as bad if not worse defender in Randle?

What legit changed?

Ihart left
Mitch hurt
Precious hurt

those were our bigs that defended and thibs doesn't have any of them right now but instead of adapting the defense...sort of like Udoka has done in HOU with a non rim protecting center...he continues to run the same defensive scheme as if he had ihart and MItch still.

That is 100% coaching.

I don’t think you’re following me. Thibs has his flaws just like anyone else. What we’ve learned from Thibs is that if you’re a role player and you can’t defend he’s not going to play you or at least nothing more than 10 minutes. Thats who he is. Even last year when everyone was behind him 100%. He’s been this way. He’s not going to adapt, so why did the FO extend him? He’s not good at adapting but he’s good at making his team play hard for him. Not saying he’s my preferred choice but being upset about him not playing Tyler Kolek is silly bc it’s expected.

[mpharris36]

It is a Thibs problem but it’s like wanting your girl to change after you just got married to her lol. FO knows how Thibs operates. They saw how he handled Fournier, Kemba, the first pick they ever made (Obi). If they had a problem with his philosophy why did they sign him to an extension?

the only non defender we acquired was KAT...and we are replacing him with arguably just as bad if not worse defender in Randle?

What legit changed?

Ihart left
Mitch hurt
Precious hurt

those were our bigs that defended and thibs doesn't have any of them right now but instead of adapting the defense...sort of like Udoka has done in HOU with a non rim protecting center...he continues to run the same defensive scheme as if he had ihart and MItch still.

That is 100% coaching.

I don’t think you’re following me. Thibs has his flaws just like anyone else. What we’ve learned from Thibs is that if you’re a role player and you can’t defend he’s not going to play you or at least nothing more than 10 minutes. Thats who he is. Even last year when everyone was behind him 100%. He’s been this way. He’s not going to adapt, so why did the FO extend him? He’s not good at adapting but he’s good at making his team play hard for him. Not saying he’s my preferred choice but being upset about him not playing Tyler Kolek is silly bc it’s expected.

Ok lets for a second take out Kolek...because yes his defense is sus right now. Cam Payne is hurt and my guess he goes back to playing him.

Why not give Hukporti a shot...he has shown more defensive acumen then Sims from what I can tell.

Also if we were worried about just getting defensive minded role players yes that is part on the FO as well. Shamet is at least respectable defensively and he got hurt or you probably see him in the rotation. But I don't think its because of our bench bad defense we are losing.

Our starters are playing a ton of minutes the scheme sucks.

Mikal Bridges shouldn't look this bad defensively...KAT shouldn't be in drop coverage.

I'm not going to harp on well who does thibs have to play if Kolek can't play 10-15 mins right now?

Its ultimately a scheme issue. We have a smaller lineup that needs to too switch nearly ever screen outside of maybe Brunson but he is never really involved in the screen because he isn't on the POA offensive player. KAT should be switching onto guards and our wings need to be switching onto opposing teams bigs...

If HOU can manage to be a decent defensively team and has pretty similar personel to us what is thibs excuse.

I get not switching mikal or hart onto a Embiid or Jokic. But that is not what we are talking about.

Not switching a wing onto Myles Turner was terrorist activity. KAT switches onto Hali and forces him to take a contested shot over him is much better than giving Myles Turner wide open 3 after wide open 3. That is 100% scheme!

[ctorres]

Not saying he’s my preferred choice but being upset about him not playing Tyler Kolek is silly bc it’s expected.

I don't see how Kolek could get more than 12-14 minutes a game unless Brunson is out. I can't imagine Thibs playing Kolek and Brunson together.

I don't know if they've fully given up on McBride running the point and just having him as someone who is interchangeable with Hart, Bridges, and Anunoby as the 2, 3, and 4 spots.

Kolek and McBride are about the same height. However, Kolek has a 6'3 wingspan, whereas McBride has a 6'9 wingspan

So Kolek has much more to overcome on the defensive end beyond basketball IQ and effort

[TKKnicks1]

Knicks gonna win their next 5

[F N 11]

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All this so Knicks can be top of the league in points allowed. Dude is a clown. People know we are a slow team.

[F N 11]

Are we allowed to take something positive from the fact that the Knicks were in a position to win the game of every loss this season except for the Boston game and it's about 4th quarter execution on both ends? No?

Ok...I'll show myself out.

4th quarter execution or 4th quarter fatigue? If anyone else of the top 6 misses time due to injury/illness...I fear for what Thibs might do...

Nothing positive about it. It got masked by wins. We can’t be playing guys 40 mins each against a short handed pacers team. Any modern coach will have us smashing fools.

[E-Balla]

Reading the board silently. This whole topic hilarious to me. We mad at the coach that's made us relevant again because our star chasing FO gave him a 6 man roster.

[KnixinSix]

It is a Thibs problem but it’s like wanting your girl to change after you just got married to her lol. FO knows how Thibs operates. They saw how he handled Fournier, Kemba, the first pick they ever made (Obi). If they had a problem with his philosophy why did they sign him to an extension?

the only non defender we acquired was KAT...and we are replacing him with arguably just as bad if not worse defender in Randle?

What legit changed?

Ihart left
Mitch hurt
Precious hurt

those were our bigs that defended and thibs doesn't have any of them right now but instead of adapting the defense...sort of like Udoka has done in HOU with a non rim protecting center...he continues to run the same defensive scheme as if he had ihart and MItch still.

That is 100% coaching.

I don’t think you’re following me. Thibs has his flaws just like anyone else. What we’ve learned from Thibs is that if you’re a role player and you can’t defend he’s not going to play you or at least nothing more than 10 minutes. Thats who he is. Even last year when everyone was behind him 100%. He’s been this way. He’s not going to adapt, so why did the FO extend him? He’s not good at adapting but he’s good at making his team play hard for him. Not saying he’s my preferred choice but being upset about him not playing Tyler Kolek is silly bc it’s expected.

I have no idea how good a Thib's team can be not coaching out of his preferred defensive system.

Because to me that is a very big question at the moment. However is the plan to run a mix of last years system and also be more purely switch heavy at times when Mitch and or Precious come back?

[KnixinSix]

the only non defender we acquired was KAT...and we are replacing him with arguably just as bad if not worse defender in Randle?

What legit changed?

Ihart left
Mitch hurt
Precious hurt

those were our bigs that defended and thibs doesn't have any of them right now but instead of adapting the defense...sort of like Udoka has done in HOU with a non rim protecting center...he continues to run the same defensive scheme as if he had ihart and MItch still.

That is 100% coaching.

I don’t think you’re following me. Thibs has his flaws just like anyone else. What we’ve learned from Thibs is that if you’re a role player and you can’t defend he’s not going to play you or at least nothing more than 10 minutes. Thats who he is. Even last year when everyone was behind him 100%. He’s been this way. He’s not going to adapt, so why did the FO extend him? He’s not good at adapting but he’s good at making his team play hard for him. Not saying he’s my preferred choice but being upset about him not playing Tyler Kolek is silly bc it’s expected.

Ok lets for a second take out Kolek...because yes his defense is sus right now. Cam Payne is hurt and my guess he goes back to playing him.

Why not give Hukporti a shot...he has shown more defensive acumen then Sims from what I can tell.

Also if we were worried about just getting defensive minded role players yes that is part on the FO as well. Shamet is at least respectable defensively and he got hurt or you probably see him in the rotation. But I don't think its because of our bench bad defense we are losing.

Our starters are playing a ton of minutes the scheme sucks.

Mikal Bridges shouldn't look this bad defensively...KAT shouldn't be in drop coverage.

I'm not going to harp on well who does thibs have to play if Kolek can't play 10-15 mins right now?

Its ultimately a scheme issue. We have a smaller lineup that needs to too switch nearly ever screen outside of maybe Brunson but he is never really involved in the screen because he isn't on the POA offensive player. KAT should be switching onto guards and our wings need to be switching onto opposing teams bigs...

If HOU can manage to be a decent defensively team and has pretty similar personel to us what is thibs excuse.

I get not switching mikal or hart onto a Embiid or Jokic. But that is not what we are talking about.

Not switching a wing onto Myles Turner was terrorist activity. KAT switches onto Hali and forces him to take a contested shot over him is much better than giving Myles Turner wide open 3 after wide open 3. That is 100% scheme!

I mean I think its a bit more nuanced but what you are saying definitely is part of it for sure.

Right now I think its 50% acclimating both players , 40% on Thibs not making things at least a little easier or more beneficial for the players, and 10% on the players.

[MrDollarBills]

Thibs ain’t it, folks. I was a fan of his previously because he was setting our culture for a bubble team. Now that we’re a potential contender, we need an elite modern coach. It may be time to turn the game (see Jackson to Kerr in GSW)

I'm starting feel this way. But who?

Dan Hurley and Jay Wright make some sense. I'm sure there are other worthy candidates out there. BOS, OKC, PHX, and CLE all found top-tier coaches in recent years.

I'm not on the fire Thibs train but I'm super biased towards Dan Hurley

[Red Vines]

This team is full of professionals I don't think every game early in the season needs to be treated like a game 7 to make them champions... Give them some freedom to experiment, get some chemistry, develop the bench, we'll win enough early on talent alone. I think you'll get better results in the end with some trust and patience.

[prophet_of_rage]

i wonder how good this team could be with an actual PG.

i remember last year that was the main thing i felt this team needed this offseason - an upgrade at PG. ideally a guy that comes off the bench to backup brunson but also play with him. let brunson play off ball or look to do what he does which is score on ball when he has it.

it's even more critical in this nonsense offense thibs runs. you need a ball handler that can set the table. get into the paint and set guys up etc. brunson isn't that and probably never will be.

if you look at the roster critically, there are no real "break you down off the dribble" guys other than brunson. bridges? nope. hart? OG? hell no. Kat? he can drive a bit but is a big slow 7 footer. team lacks ball handling and creation.

would have probably been better off getting someone like tyus jones instead of bridges. biggest loss of randle was his ability to generate looks for others.

when was the last time brunson broke down the defense and sprayed it to a wide open shooter? it essentially never happens. randle for all his flaws would be generating 6+ of those per game at minimum.

Agreed. That's why KAT trade made me uneasy.

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[prophet_of_rage]

here is what I don't get about the Bridges "thing".
We gave up our 3rd and 4th scoring option for OG and then paying him an absolute fortune. he also showed that he has the bag to be a good 3rd option on a contender.

So why not trade for a better fit (means better defender and/or shooter) and keep draft picks if we don't use Bridges as a top 3 option?
For 1-2 picks you could have gotten Caruso for example. Or go after Wiggins, Jerami Grant, DeAndre Hunter etc and keep the assets for another depth-move. just don't get it.

The Mikal trade was to complete the Villanova connection. They overpaid bc they had to bc obviously the Nets aren’t going to do business with the Knicks unless they really got an amazing deal. Even if the Knicks had waited till the season to make the trade the Nets likely would’ve gotten similar assets from other teams that aren’t crosstown rivals.

The villanova connection is one of the dumbest reasons to overpay for a role player. Sorry. Should've let some other team do it.

Shoulda been baby Lakers and traded for BI.

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[ctorres]

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[NiceLikeChrist]

Reading the board silently. This whole topic hilarious to me. We mad at the coach that's made us relevant again because our star chasing FO gave him a 6 man roster.

where is the evidence? not like we've seen more than 6 guys play. pacers played 9 guys and 3 nobodies when they were down 3 rotation players and it got them 130 pts and a W

the fact remains at this point last season deuce was getting 3 minutes a game. thibs is a nonce who doesn't realize the players he has at his disposal until he is quite literally forced into playing them. it'll take 2 more injuries for him to learn whether or not any of the rookies are serviceable