2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers (DEN leads 1-0)

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Who wins?

Poll ended at Mon Apr 21, 2025 11:15 pm

Nuggets in 4
5
2%
Nuggets in 5
11
4%
Nuggets in 6
56
20%
Nuggets in 7
55
20%
Clippers in 4
2
1%
Clippers in 5
10
4%
Clippers in 6
107
39%
Clippers in 7
31
11%
 
Total votes: 277

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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#261 » by OkcSinceSGA » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:01 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Jedi32 wrote:If kawhi is fully healthy and plays to the best of his abilities on offense and defense he can be the best player in this series and that would change the entire dynamic of the series.


No, he can't, unless Jokic is injured.

He can be a not too distant second best player in the series...


“Can’t” seems strong. Unlikely? Sure I’d say it’s about an 80% chance Jokic is the best player this series. But it’s not out of the realm of possibility Kawhi or Harden can outplay him in a few games.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#262 » by Sharkboy242 » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:14 pm

Most national media are picking Clippers.

Most people who cover the Nuggets are picking Nuggets.

I assume Clippers media is picking Clippers
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#263 » by CodeBreaker » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:15 pm

Jedi32 wrote:If kawhi is fully healthy and plays to the best of his abilities on offense and defense he can be the best player in this series and that would change the entire dynamic of the series.

there is no way Kawhi can be the best player in a series with Jokic on the opposing team
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#264 » by PeteyPablo » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:24 pm

Jokic is listed at 6'11'' and 280 lbs - Kawhi is listed at 6'7'' and 225 lbs. So this is not apples to apples comparison.



Kawhi accolades :


2× NBA champion (2014, 2019)
2× NBA Finals MVP (2014, 2019)
6× NBA All-Star (2016, 2017, 2019–2021, 2024)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2020)
3× All-NBA First Team (2016, 2017, 2021)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2019, 2020, 2024)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2015, 2016)
3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2015–2017)
4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014, 2019–2021)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA steals leader (2015)
NBA 75th Anniversary Team
AP Athlete of the Year (2019)
Consensus second-team All-American (2011)
2× First-team All-MWC (2010, 2011)
No. 15 retired by San Diego State Aztecs
California Mr. Basketball (2009)









Jokic accolades :


Career highlights and awards
NBA champion (2023)
NBA Finals MVP (2023)
3× NBA Most Valuable Player (2021, 2022, 2024)
7× NBA All-Star (2019–2025)
4× All-NBA First Team (2019, 2021, 2022, 2024)
2× All-NBA Second Team (2020, 2023)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
Hickok Belt (2023)
4× Serbian Player of the Year (2018, 2021, 2022, 2024)
ABA League MVP (2015)
ABA League Top Prospect (2015)
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#265 » by Mamba Mentality » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:25 pm

Sharkboy242 wrote:Most national media are picking Clippers.

Most people who cover the Nuggets are picking Nuggets.

I assume Clippers media is picking Clippers


Clippers opened as series underdogs at +135, now they're betting favorites at -130. That sort of line movement is pretty telling.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#266 » by Jadoogar » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:29 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
Jedi32 wrote:If kawhi is fully healthy and plays to the best of his abilities on offense and defense he can be the best player in this series and that would change the entire dynamic of the series.


No, he can't, unless Jokic is injured.

He can be a not too distant second best player in the series...


“Can’t” seems strong. Unlikely? Sure I’d say it’s about an 80% chance Jokic is the best player this series. But it’s not out of the realm of possibility Kawhi or Harden can outplay him in a few games.


He may not need to be the best player. If the gap between the 2 is small enough, the rest of the clippers roster is probably a lot better than the nuggets, it may be enough.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#267 » by OkcSinceSGA » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:37 pm

I think people are sleeping most on Harden. This is not the guy of the last 3-4 years. He’s #1 in the NBA in isolation efficiency this year. He’s hitting the floater at elite levels. Denver will be very focused on Kawhi.

Harden is going to have a lot of opportunity to take over games. Especially running Zu pnr down Denver’s throat with DJ and Batum etc cutting for lobs.

This game was the game that started the Clippers surge the last 20 something games. Second night of B2B No Kawhi, DJ or Powell and Harden did this. He bullied the hell out of Cunningham. And people expect Braun to stop him?


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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#268 » by Sharkboy242 » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:42 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:I think people are sleeping most on Harden. This is not the guy of the last 3-4 years. He’s #1 in the NBA in isolation efficiency this year. He’s hitting the floater at elite levels. Denver will be very focused on Kawhi.

Harden is going to have a lot of opportunity to take over games. Especially running Zu pnr down Denver’s throat with DJ and Batum etc cutting for lobs.

This game was the game that started the Clippers surge the last 20 something games. No Kawhi or Powell and Harden did this. He bullied the hell out of Cunningham. And people expect Braun to stop him?



Nah, people are most sleeping on Christian Braun. He’s going to gas Harden out on defense.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#269 » by Beethoven » Thu Apr 17, 2025 5:57 pm

I want to see Kawhi and the clips destroy the thunder
Kobe Bryant forever
GO LAKERS
8-)
I've heard it through the grapevine..NBA gods have already designated Los Angeles LAKERS as NBA Champions in near future. The destiny is real. TRUST ME.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#270 » by MarcusBrody » Thu Apr 17, 2025 6:05 pm

Exp0sed wrote:
LakersSoul wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:Kawhi will get his regardless, it's Harden (and Norm) that will decide this series

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Norm?

Its all about Kawhi, Harden plus Zubac.

On the other side, Joker, Murray plus Braun/Gordon/Porter.
Yeah, the way the Nuggets defense works, Jokic obviously can't close out to the 3 pt. line quickly and\or recover and in time and by default they choose to concede the shot,to conserve Jokic's energy, avoid fouling and have him be in a rebounding position, rather than closing out late which puts him out of position and he's too slow to step out and really bother the shooter anyways. They usually concede the outside shot and the mid-range shot

With Zu crashing the offensive glass it's even more important as neither AG or MPJ can really box him out or even bother him down low


If Powell can make those shots not just consistently but also at a large volume, the Nuggets default strategy will fail

Zu sets mean screens and outside of Braun the Nuggets are very deficient in guards (or players) that can navigate well through screens

Powell will have alot of open looks

Btw, Powell has consistently been lighting up this Denver core, well before he was a Clipper0


This was true the last few years and the beginning of this year, but given KCP's absence and the inability of Denver's current perimeter players to navigate screens effectively, Denver has had Jokic come much higher and stay with the ball handler longer (sometimes doubling) in the second half of the season. To my eye, it hasn't been very effective. Jokic is much better in that drop role where his good hands and reading of the pass can be utilized rather than on the perimeter where his speed is an issue and it requires the other Nuggets to make much more dramatic rotations. Murray and MPJ have never been noted for their great rotations, but Gordon has looked much more likely than previous to fall asleep for some reason. Then - as you note - Jokic pushing up means he's away from the rim so the Nuggets give up more offensive rebounds.

Harden is one of the best ever at using that high screen to torture switching bigs and draw fouls, so i'm really interested to see how the Nuggets approach this.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#271 » by Exp0sed » Thu Apr 17, 2025 6:31 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:I think people are sleeping most on Harden. This is not the guy of the last 3-4 years. He’s #1 in the NBA in isolation efficiency this year. He’s hitting the floater at elite levels. Denver will be very focused on Kawhi.

Harden is going to have a lot of opportunity to take over games. Especially running Zu pnr down Denver’s throat with DJ and Batum etc cutting for lobs.

This game was the game that started the Clippers surge the last 20 something games. Second night of B2B No Kawhi, DJ or Powell and Harden did this. He bullied the hell out of Cunningham. And people expect Braun to stop him?


I don't think Denver's game plan would be to focus on Kawhi, Kawhi is a machine but it's Harden that makes the Clipper engine run, getting everyone involved and setting up Zu,Powell etc

I think they will prioritize trying to stop Harden and let Kawhi get his

Morey has turned out to be a total fraud, he lied and went back on his word as far as paying Harden, who may I remind you won the 76ers the first game in Boston when Joe L was out, right before that off season. Then he went and gave that dough to PG13, when Harden is 5 times the player PG is at this point

Harden has been balling all season and had the Clippers way over expectations, they were like the 4th seed in the bloodbath West, even before Kawhi started working his way back

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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#272 » by Exp0sed » Thu Apr 17, 2025 6:39 pm

Sharkboy242 wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:I think people are sleeping most on Harden. This is not the guy of the last 3-4 years. He’s #1 in the NBA in isolation efficiency this year. He’s hitting the floater at elite levels. Denver will be very focused on Kawhi.

Harden is going to have a lot of opportunity to take over games. Especially running Zu pnr down Denver’s throat with DJ and Batum etc cutting for lobs.

This game was the game that started the Clippers surge the last 20 something games. No Kawhi or Powell and Harden did this. He bullied the hell out of Cunningham. And people expect Braun to stop him?



Nah, people are most sleeping on Christian Braun. He’s going to gas Harden out on defense.
Gas him on defense?
Braun isn't Steph running around behind three different screens..he's mostly stationary at the half court, just a timely cut here and there

and in transition, Harden can't catch CB amyway and he isn't going to try, so he def won't get gassed from that, lol

Harden will take it in stride and just cook Braun doubly so on the other end of the floor

Harden's also big, strong and a good post defender, not like CB can simply overpower him like he does some smaller guards

Tbh, i'm a Jokic stan and these last couple of years Harden is the one guy i really wanted to see next to Jokic

I think that duo would have been brilliant and unstoppable. shame we'll never get to see that..

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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#273 » by Jedi32 » Thu Apr 17, 2025 6:55 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Jedi32 wrote:If kawhi is fully healthy and plays to the best of his abilities on offense and defense he can be the best player in this series and that would change the entire dynamic of the series.


No, he can't, unless Jokic is injured.

He can be a not too distant second best player in the series...

Yes he can. Jokic is not in kawhi's league defensively, especially if kawhi is healthy and locked in.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#274 » by Jedi32 » Thu Apr 17, 2025 6:56 pm

CodeBreaker wrote:
Jedi32 wrote:If kawhi is fully healthy and plays to the best of his abilities on offense and defense he can be the best player in this series and that would change the entire dynamic of the series.

there is no way Kawhi can be the best player in a series with Jokic on the opposing team

Yes he can. Defense is a part of the game.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#275 » by Exp0sed » Thu Apr 17, 2025 7:01 pm

MarcusBrody wrote:
Exp0sed wrote:
LakersSoul wrote:
Norm?

Its all about Kawhi, Harden plus Zubac.

On the other side, Joker, Murray plus Braun/Gordon/Porter.
Yeah, the way the Nuggets defense works, Jokic obviously can't close out to the 3 pt. line quickly and\or recover and in time and by default they choose to concede the shot,to conserve Jokic's energy, avoid fouling and have him be in a rebounding position, rather than closing out late which puts him out of position and he's too slow to step out and really bother the shooter anyways. They usually concede the outside shot and the mid-range shot

With Zu crashing the offensive glass it's even more important as neither AG or MPJ can really box him out or even bother him down low


If Powell can make those shots not just consistently but also at a large volume, the Nuggets default strategy will fail

Zu sets mean screens and outside of Braun the Nuggets are very deficient in guards (or players) that can navigate well through screens

Powell will have alot of open looks

Btw, Powell has consistently been lighting up this Denver core, well before he was a Clipper0


This was true the last few years and the beginning of this year, but given KCP's absence and the inability of Denver's current perimeter players to navigate screens effectively, Denver has had Jokic come much higher and stay with the ball handler longer (sometimes doubling) in the second half of the season. To my eye, it hasn't been very effective. Jokic is much better in that drop role where his good hands and reading of the pass can be utilized rather than on the perimeter where his speed is an issue and it requires the other Nuggets to make much more dramatic rotations. Murray and MPJ have never been noted for their great rotations, but Gordon has looked much more likely than previous to fall asleep for some reason. Then - as you note - Jokic pushing up means he's away from the rim so the Nuggets give up more offensive rebounds.

Harden is one of the best ever at using that high screen to torture switching bigs and draw fouls, so i'm really interested to see how the Nuggets approach this.
I watch alot of Nuggets games during the Jokic era. Jokic being high on the screen isn't a new thing, it came and went and also matchup dependant

In order for Jokic to concievably be high on the screen vs. the Clips - the Nuggets will have to change their starting lineup

Maybd that's something we'll see if they'll be down 0-2 or at the halftime of game two if they're down one and behind

What i mean is, that Zu has been rolling very aggresively to the basket, like a, knocking guys in his way over. Harden is one of the GOAT lob pasers, both in terms of placement and timing\"connection" with the rolling big. If Jokic is high on the screen, he uses his i.q, hands and playing the angles to deny the entry pass but since Zu is so big and rolls very aggresively and because Harden can throw any pass and is automatic with the lob - Jokic isn't going to have the time to recover. thus imo, this strategy isn't viable for the Nuggets vs. the Clippers

If they go with Watson instead of Murray (if he's sucking or his injury is acting up) or perhaps MPJ if he's getting lost defensively and Watson cheats off shooters lurking to help down low, to break up the lob or at least provide some sort of contest at the rim when Zu catches it deep, then...maybe but in their usual starting unit I just don't think it's viable

Either way, Nuggets will mix looks and coverages cuz that's just how it's done in 2025, you can't give a player like Harden the same coverage on every posesion

But mostly I think they'll at least begin the series daring Harden to hit 3's, mid range shots\floaters or go to the cup meaning: they'll dare him to attack the drop

If he capitalizes on that and punishes them, we'll see which adjustments Adelman can muster up


Jokic high hedges put pressure on mediocre ball handlers and passers but Harden is an elite ball handler and passer that probably has the most muscle memory and experience as a pnr ball handler since Stockton and he can make the right read and execute the right pass in his sleep

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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#276 » by Djoker » Thu Apr 17, 2025 7:29 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#277 » by Cubbies2120 » Thu Apr 17, 2025 8:11 pm

Jedi32 wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
Jedi32 wrote:If kawhi is fully healthy and plays to the best of his abilities on offense and defense he can be the best player in this series and that would change the entire dynamic of the series.


No, he can't, unless Jokic is injured.

He can be a not too distant second best player in the series...

Yes he can. Jokic is not in kawhi's league defensively, especially if kawhi is healthy and locked in.


And Kawhi is not in Jokic's league in playmaking or scoring...
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#278 » by ejftw » Thu Apr 17, 2025 8:13 pm

Mamba Mentality wrote:
Sharkboy242 wrote:Most national media are picking Clippers.

Most people who cover the Nuggets are picking Nuggets.

I assume Clippers media is picking Clippers


Clippers opened as series underdogs at +135, now they're betting favorites at -130. That sort of line movement is pretty telling.


It just means more bets are coming in for the Clippers so the book makers are edging it over more than anything else
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#279 » by Jedi32 » Thu Apr 17, 2025 8:15 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
Jedi32 wrote:
Cubbies2120 wrote:
No, he can't, unless Jokic is injured.

He can be a not too distant second best player in the series...

Yes he can. Jokic is not in kawhi's league defensively, especially if kawhi is healthy and locked in.


And Kawhi is not in Jokic's league in playmaking or scoring...

Play making I can agree, scoring gap is not that big to me.
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Re: 2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers 

Post#280 » by PeteyPablo » Thu Apr 17, 2025 9:03 pm

Kawhi Playoffs numbers :

2019 30.5 PPG 24 games Championship
2020 28.2 PPG 13 games semi finals
2021 30.4 PPG 11 games WCF
2022 34.5 PPG 2 games

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