(Dallas) PG Thread: It's Official. F*ck Joakim.

[j4remi]

There's a fairly alarming issue where this team starts off every game trying to establish its scorers with a lot of isolations and not much motion. This has seen them in the hole early damn consistently and as much as we complain about the bench...the bench typically has players come in that move more, pass more and help everyone settle in (it helps that the bench replaces one or two of the scorers and allows a more singular focal point for the offense to run through). Poor rebounding fundamentals are also something to watch for, because these dudes just aren't boxing out enough. But there's also the good, KP is moving closer to being an unstoppable offensive force with his rebounding coming back around as well. When Melo is hot, everything starts to sync up and the team starts looking high caliber. The bench also has some emerging talent; specifically Willy whose rebounding is a difference maker, BJ who even on a low assist night helps ball movement and Holiday who has aggression that everyone wants to play with.

Rose: His scoring wasn't there last night and contributed big time to early struggles and he didn't establish ball movement. But after foul trouble got him an extended rest, he came in and focused on orchestrating. His defense was better in this one, he forced JJ Barea to make a lot of tough baskets and he tallied another 5 assists. The promise here is that he didn't have his offense going and didn't force it. Just 6 FGAs but plenty of nice passes.

Lee: The guy's pretty reliable. He makes the open ones pretty much anywhere on the court and he plays an aggressive brand of defense. This was a quiet game for him but you'll take 7, 2 and 2 from your best wing defender when he's an outlet and swing option rather than a focal point.

Melo: Tale of two Melo's but really his play didn't change all that much. In the first half, he forced isolations and missed everything; got in his head which led to more mental errors and took offensive flow away from his own team. In the second half, he got better spacing for the isolations, but they were similar situations and he was converting. The flame thrower Melo created havoc for a defense that didn't have an answer for him other than letting other Knicks have good looks. The rhythm for Melo helped him mentally too and he started passing more, especially in two man games with KP including a really pretty dribble hand-off and screen for a KP three in the fourth when KP had established his scoring. Melo's been rebounding well and tallying 3 or more assists fairly often lately, but his scoring has been streaky with a saving grace that on most nights in the moments he doesn't have it, he doesn't force it (exception of fourth quarters) which has helped his efficiency numbers but last night he was full Welo. 24, 7 and 3 in a game where people had pitchforks and torches ready after two quarters.

KP: 24 and 11 with a block that looked like a big brother picking on the youngest kid in the family. The assortment of turn around J's out the post against little guys is looking more and more reliable even if I prefer up and overs to draw fouls. He really showed variety last night, off ball cutting, turn around jumping, the one leg Dirk special and a crossover into a pull up that looked Durant-esque at one point even. He got busy on the boards too and in extended minutes at Center; he became a better defensive presence.

Noah: Only played 15 minutes because the Mavs completely ignored him on the offensive end. The Knicks didn't have an effective way to take advantage of all that space and the Mavs running a pair of swing forwards meant KP was stuck in an awkward defensive assignment whenever he shared floor space with Noah. To be worth his contract, Noah has to find ways to be effective in these instances.

BJ: He promotes ball movement, period. He didn't put up any gaudy stats but he picked his spots to take the shot and he passed the ball and kept things going. He was okay last night, but that's it.

Holiday: He was the spark in this one; 16 pts, 4 boards, 2 assists, 2 steals and a beauty of a block on Barnes (who was killing it). Holiday's defense is really fun to watch and the fact that he's a perpetual motion player meant that in the third quarter when he paired with Lee the floor was opened up wide for Melo to abused mismatches and KP to find comfortable locations to operate. He's had a couple of tough games but been really reliable for the majority of these games and really deserves minutes with the starters.

Willy: Dude grabs boards, hustles on defense and smart off ball decisions as an offensive player. He was contained in this one but that'll happen, he still grabbed 6 boards and made a visible difference when he was out there in 13 minutes.

Ndour: Makes the right cuts, hustles, plays hard defense and chases down boards...sounds pretty great right? But then there are his hands; which are laughably bad (like the WR in the Replacements who gets open but drops the ball every time). His hands are so bad that they ruin most of the good and cause TO's. BJ probably has double digit TO's attempting to throw the ball to this man alone and he can't help it because Ndour is so wide open at times. Also, Ndour's jumper is anywhere from UGLY to ehhhhhh. Dude is literally catching the ball away from being an alright piece to bring off the bench periodically.

Sasha: Got 12 mins and I wasn't impressed, but he worked hard...there's that.

Baker: Just give us ANYTHING so that you can take Sasha's minutes fam...and I don't mean shooting a three up double digits with 10 seconds on the clock (though screw the Mavs for full court pressing and getting mad about it...don't defend like it's still a game and get mad when the offense responds like so)

Kuz: 3 minutes out there...still finds a way to score.

KOQ: Wild to think he managed 3 FGAs in 3 mins but he somehow filled up his statsheet for such a limited time; 2 points, an assist, 2 boards and a block to boot. Willy took his spot, but he seems ready to be productive if Willy has rookie woes.

Lance "Why'd they Sign that guy again" Thomas: Didn't play, it had zero negative impact on the squad.

Jeff: Great half time adjustments are the story of his night. He wasn't afraid to bench Noah when it wasn't working and he also gave Melo extended bench time after the stagnant start for the squad was boosted by greedy Melo plays. Tough to overhype a win over such a depleted opponent but he came to coach, did his job and got the win without giving in to the pressures of big contracts meaning a guy HAS to play.

Random: Bogut annoys me...that's all.

[levendis]

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[Knickerbock]

Clearly our team is a big mess.. And there are many problems..

But I believe it's clear now that to solve several of the problems.. Knicks need to use smaller line ups.. kp isn't at his best constantly running around trying to guard on the perimeter.. Melo obviously can't stay with elite small forwards...

Kristaps defends better at the 5 spot and he is a nightmare for opposing bigs defending him. We clearly know Carmelo plays better at the 4 spot. The spacing on offense will overall be much better.

Now what do we do with Joakim Noah....? I think that we still really need joakim a lot.. We already did small ball with mike Woodson.. During that time we got beat down on the boards.. We need his intensity and leadership on the court.

So what do you guys think we should do....?

[Triple C]

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The Rambis effect

[Amsterdam]

If yelling like a wild animal after grabbing an easy rebound were an NBA skill, Joakim Noah would be the DPOY.

Unfortunately, it's not and he has nothing worthwhile to contribute to a team. We got hoodwinked by Chicago and Phil. Noah has officially become the Lance Thomas of NBA centers.

Hernangomez is better than Noah RIGHT NOW.

Heck, comparing him to a wild animal is too much of a compliment. He's more like a wounded dog at the Animal Care and Control of NYC.

The new era has begun. KP at the 5 and Melo at the 4.

Dude you having no fkn clue as to the impact he may be having on O'Quinn, Hernangomez or KP as bigs. They in fact are playing very well this year individually and I personally feel Noah has had some influence, with his warrior mentality. Don't under estimate the value these type of players have on the overall psyche of the team. Our issues lie in the overall coming together as a team and this takes a little time.
It's easy to sit in the comforts of your living room and critisize a Knicks player, even through we WON.

SMFH

[god shammgod]

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The Rambis effect

celtics fans must really be going nuts. they went from one of the top defenses to the worst.

[Knickerbock]

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The Rambis effect

celtics fans must really be going nuts. they went from one of the top defenses to the worst.

Is crowder really their entire defense..?

[dakomish23]

New York traded center Robin Lopez, guard Jose Calderon and guard Jerian Grant to Chicago, which shipped guard Justin Holiday, Rose and a 2017 second-round pick back to the Knicks.

just wanted this to sink in

And by dumping Failderon in the deal, we opened up the cap space to sign Jennings and Kuz

So really we got

DRose
Holiday
Jennings
Kuz
2nd rd pick

For

RoLo
Grant
Failderon

Not bad

[Polk377]

soooo Noah might have been a mistake......With most of the league going to small ball it doesn't make sense having a guy who doesn't even look at the basket out there clogging space. That lineup with Rose-Lee-Holliday-Melo-KP looked really good. They were playing great defense, pushing the ball up quick and getting good shots.

The problem is when Noah and Rose are on the court at the same time teams can have a field day doubling Melo and KP. Move Noah to the bench next to Hernangomez with Jennings-Baker-Kuz.

KP is magical and is developing an arsenal similar to Melo. He needs to touch the ball on every possession in the half court.

Hot and Cold Melo is nerve racking to watch put you know he can catch fire at any moment.

Holliday has shown more than anyone would have expected so far. Where are you guys that said he can't play and wanted him waived?

I wish we had a PG who could actually shoot the ball. Is it too late to trade Jennings for JJ Barea?

[F N 11]

Damn we didnt even go down by that much allowing 77 lol. When the games start mounting the numbers start being serious.


I like small ball as well but we have to give Noah a chance still. He can be a 72 million dollar great bench player though. However with him we also had I believed one of the leagues top efficiency lineups. Its just KP chasing pretty much SF's and Melo doing the same is not whats best.

Knicks can be a matchup nightmare with KP at the 5 and Melo at the 4. They just have space and cant be guarded.
The lane was so open with KP at the 5. I see endless possibilities of Rose just driving by his man with no rim protection. Its something we have to do more.

[HEZI]

soooo Noah might have been a mistake......With most of the league going to small ball it doesn't make sense having a guy who doesn't even look at the basket out there clogging space. That lineup with Rose-Lee-Holliday-Melo-KP looked really good. They were playing great defense, pushing the ball up quick and getting good shots.

The problem is when Noah and Rose are on the court at the same time teams can have a field day doubling Melo and KP. Move Noah to the bench next to Hernangomez with Jennings-Baker-Kuz.

KP is magical and is developing an arsenal similar to Melo. He needs to touch the ball on every possession in the half court.

Hot and Cold Melo is nerve racking to watch put you know he can catch fire at any moment.

Holliday has shown more than anyone would have expected so far. Where are you guys that said he can't play and wanted him waived?

I wish we had a PG who could actually shoot the ball. Is it too late to trade Jennings for JJ Barea?

We do have a PG who could shoot, he's in Westchester right now.

[god shammgod]

soooo Noah might have been a mistake......With most of the league going to small ball it doesn't make sense having a guy who doesn't even look at the basket out there clogging space. That lineup with Rose-Lee-Holliday-Melo-KP looked really good. They were playing great defense, pushing the ball up quick and getting good shots.

The problem is when Noah and Rose are on the court at the same time teams can have a field day doubling Melo and KP. Move Noah to the bench next to Hernangomez with Jennings-Baker-Kuz.

KP is magical and is developing an arsenal similar to Melo. He needs to touch the ball on every possession in the half court.

Hot and Cold Melo is nerve racking to watch put you know he can catch fire at any moment.

Holliday has shown more than anyone would have expected so far. Where are you guys that said he can't play and wanted him waived?

I wish we had a PG who could actually shoot the ball. Is it too late to trade Jennings for JJ Barea?

yeah. with kp's ability to shoot, we should really have a starting team where everyone is a threat from 3. they can do it as soon as next year but we'll still be stuck with a pretty expensive limited backup center.

[HEZI]

You know, Jennings passing up wide open layups really bothers me. Why does he look so shook in the paint? I don't know how many times I've seen him have a wide open layup and he just pulls back and dribbles out.

[F N 11]

According to ESPN Knicks scoring 101.0 and allowing 106.5 We're actually 20th in OPPG



Lets keep the Defense going!!

[King of Canada]

Porzingis now #30 in the NBA in scoring, after having a game where he didn't score a FG! He should start moving up that list a bit too.

[Polk377]

soooo Noah might have been a mistake......With most of the league going to small ball it doesn't make sense having a guy who doesn't even look at the basket out there clogging space. That lineup with Rose-Lee-Holliday-Melo-KP looked really good. They were playing great defense, pushing the ball up quick and getting good shots.

The problem is when Noah and Rose are on the court at the same time teams can have a field day doubling Melo and KP. Move Noah to the bench next to Hernangomez with Jennings-Baker-Kuz.

KP is magical and is developing an arsenal similar to Melo. He needs to touch the ball on every possession in the half court.

Hot and Cold Melo is nerve racking to watch put you know he can catch fire at any moment.

Holliday has shown more than anyone would have expected so far. Where are you guys that said he can't play and wanted him waived?

I wish we had a PG who could actually shoot the ball. Is it too late to trade Jennings for JJ Barea?

We do have a PG who could shoot, he's in Westchester right now.

Can people stop with freakin Chasson Randle already. He is not a PG. There is a reason Baker was the primary ball handler in Summer League. He can definitely score but he is not a distributor or can run an offense.

The key target next offseason should be Chris Paul. He can take the team to another level along side Melo and KP. He can actually shoot the ball, is arguably the best distributor in the league and is a solid defender. Melo needs to work some magic to get his friend over here and finally make good on that wedding day toast.

[F N 11]

You know, Jennings passing up wide open layups really bothers me. Why does he look so shook in the paint? I don't know how many times I've seen him have a wide open layup and he just pulls back and dribbles out.

You would look shook too if your athleticism depleted and your like 6'0 175.

[Amsterdam]

Not to mention that when a team's bullies start throwing elbows and cheap shots at our rookies, Noah is the first one there.
His presence as a club house leader cannot and should not be under-valued.

[Knickerbock]

New York traded center Robin Lopez, guard Jose Calderon and guard Jerian Grant to Chicago, which shipped guard Justin Holiday, Rose and a 2017 second-round pick back to the Knicks.

just wanted this to sink in

And by dumping Failderon in the deal, we opened up the cap space to sign Jennings and Kuz

So really we got

DRose
Holiday
Jennings
Kuz
2nd rd pick

For

RoLo
Grant
Failderon

Not bad

It all depends on how Grant developes... And if Rose will remain healthy..

[Juco24]

Like others have already beaten to death! Spacing in today's NBA is essential to success! Just look at last year's finals. The day of strictly low posting big men have gone. And if you look at the Knicks, much of are defensive struggles are because of two things:

1. Melo isn't quick enough to stay with SF's anymore for ANY length of time. Maybe a possession or 2 but that's it.
2. KP struggles too with attempting to guard the perimeter based PFs such as Gibson, Ryan Anderson, Tobias Harris etc

The fix to this is to play KP more at the 5 and allow your BEST defender to be on the court more. Rocket Science??? And if KP is overmatched (not often) insert Willy, who can actually shoot. Noah's ineffectiveness on the offensive side is actually 2 fold because 1. opposing C's aren't guarding him and 2. Opposing C's are resting on their defensive end. I like Noah and all, but he's hurting the team and that's not to say there's not a place for him because it still is. Just need to limit his minutes.