Stillwater's monster draft thread (consolidated)

[Stillwater]

Your first sentence ignores the math that either Zion or Ja will be available. The workout opportunity is getting a chance to change their mind on the idea that those two are superior players. He doesnt seem to want that opportunity.

Additionally if the Pelicans change their mind and decide on Ja, I haven't seen anything out there that specifically says Memphis would prefer Zion over RJ. He is being given a chance to possibly earn that spot. Doesn't want that opportunity either.

If it's about not wanting to go to a dysfunctional organization, somebody should let him know what's been going on in NY and LA, the spots you just said he might like to go.

It's pretty hard to spin this as something other than what it appears.

Theoretically Memphis could wheel and deal with Conley and whatever else and then end up up with the 3rd or 4th pick as well. He doesn't want that opportunity should it arise either.

There is no math involved Zion is the consensus #1 If Griff picks Ja over Zion he will lose his job... and Memphis has publicly stated Ja was their top target and Barrett has stated he prefers LAL or NY which one has to assume is due to them picking 3 and 4 and due to their ability to get quality FA so he isn't buried on a tanking team...that is the type of competitor RJ is and the main reason in addition to the market and $ he will make playing in a larger market etc.
It has nothing to do with Memphis being in Memphis and more to do with them being **** for fa

[Richfield]

Both NY and LA could end up with zero big name FA’s, tanking has less incentive than it ever did staring at new evidence, and if KD does go to NY I wouldnt put it past the Knicks to want to see what it takes to get Mike Conley to join him over a rookie and try to win it all as soon as possible. I applaud your effort to defend him and spin it into the opposite of what it appears and say its because he’s so competitive. So ill agree to disagree. Or better yet ill agree just on the part of your post that reads “that is the type of competitor RJ is”.

[Stillwater]

Both NY and LA could end up with zero big name FA’s, tanking has less incentive than it ever did staring at new evidence, and if KD does go to NY I wouldnt put it past the Knicks to want to see what it takes to get Mike Conley to join him over a rookie and try to win it all as soon as possible. I applaud your effort to defend him and spin it into the opposite of what it appears and say its because he’s so competitive. So ill agree to disagree. Or better yet ill agree just on the part of your post that reads “that is the type of competitor RJ is”.

lol I'm not spinning anything.
whatever his motivations are about ny or lal being his preference is irrelevant to me. if cavs trade for him he will have worked out for them otherwise they wouldnt give up enough knowing he had no interest in cle either

[Stillwater]

So it was Physical all along.https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/254016/Cam-Reddish-To-Undergo-Core-Muscle-Surgery
Reddish just got a huge pass from me and I wouldn't be surprised if he now goes 3-5

[Richfield]

Ill admit I haven't done my homework on the details of this. But instead of seeing it as a medical red flag or that he might be injury prone in his core muscles or have this same problem again in the future, you see it as an excuse as to why he wasn't better and assume he will be in the future and it raises his value?

I enjoy watching you rationalize.

[Stillwater]

Ill admit I haven't done my homework on the details of this. But instead of seeing it as a medical red flag or that he might be injury prone in his core muscles or have this same problem again in the future, you see it as an excuse as to why he wasn't better and assume he will be in the future and it raises his value?

I enjoy watching you rationalize.

if the repair doesn't work than it confirms he is all that he was in college and that makes his stock less, but the point is it will likely raise his stock as the repair for this is usually very successful and really is about the only thing that had the capability of changing my mind about him as a prospect. I mean if what was perceived as passiveness was a direct result of the physical issue that will not be present after the repair, one has to assume his game will be elevated to what it was expected to be going into the college season. rationalization isn't really the best description of what I am doing... more or less just reacting to facts

[Richfield]

If i could go back and not say rationalize, i would do so.

I enjoy your optimism / point of view, and hope you are spot on accurate about Reddish. I enjoyed the few minutes of what I saw of him last year. No idea how it will translate to the pros, but as a fan of the game visually he had a unique flow, what i saw was aesthetically pleasing.

[Richfield]

Ive only watched the highlight reel of Kevin Porter Jr. But offensively he just looks instinctually or mentally way ahead of the defenders. Amazing offensive instincts/anticipation/rhythm.

Can somebody bring me back down to earth with him? Or point me to where in the forum he’s been discussed in depth (if anybody knows off the top of their head)?

What are the question marks with him? Motor? Focus? He seems pretty “cool” out there. Is he a full time player or he floats at times? From what i looked at seems like he’d be rated higher or would have been more productive/hyped if he was doing those things full time.

Ill get killed for bringing up Harden’s name as what some of his flashes remind me of, but those subtle little out of rhythm things that get him space are truly a pleasure to watch. Offensively he's an artist.

[gflem]

Ive only watched the highlight reel of Kevin Porter Jr. But offensively he just looks instinctually or mentally way ahead of the defenders. Amazing offensive instincts/anticipation/rhythm.

Can somebody bring me back down to earth with him? Or point me to where in the forum he’s been discussed in depth (if anybody knows off the top of their head)?

What are the question marks with him? Motor? Focus? He seems pretty “cool” out there. Is he a full time player or he floats at times? From what i looked at seems like he’d be rated higher or would have been more productive/hyped if he was doing those things full time.

Ill get killed for bringing up Harden’s name as what some of his flashes remind me of, but those subtle little out of rhythm things that get him space are truly a pleasure to watch. Offensively he's an artist.

Try the draft board. There are discussions about most of the top players in the draft there. Not all people posting are experts, though some think they are, but the discussions are interesting and sometimes entertaining.

[Richfield]

Thanks. I've searched a bit and it's not easy to find substance, it's mostly just predictions where he'll fall in a person's mock. Quite a wide range on that. I saw work ethic mentioned. That hints at what maybe he does not do. But talent wise I really like what he does do.

Westbrook is known for motor and intensity, so I want to make clear that aspect of Westbrook is not what I'm talking about when I say this. But the way he attacks the rim and plays above it reminds me of Westbrook. The stuff he does below the rim reminds me of Harden. As far as physical movements, it looks like those two had a lovechild and his name is Kevin Porter Jr.

If there's a better talent at 5 I hope the Cavs can identify it. But I'd be very hopeful if Cavs take KPJ and put him next to Sexton. I think they'd complement one another well ith KPJ as a scoring guard. Defensively too, I think IF there are motor questions with KPJ, you want him next to another guy that does have that grit, like Sexton, so he knows he has a better chance to get steals and transition opportunities when he applies the effort playing next an unselfish team guy like Sexton.

[Stillwater]

In this mock I have the Cavs drafting Barrett or Culver who are both available at 5.
and taking a flyer on Keldon Johnson who slides to 26.
there are several movers with Reddish back in the top 4 and King mid 1st with others like Okpala and Herro falling quite a bit.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/596467/
{I would not take Johnson at 26} I would take Claxton or Gafford with intention to trade TT or Henson or both at the dl

[Richfield]

Schofield seems like one of those guys that everybody projects late first early second, then a few years later half the league regrets not taking him earlier in the first.

[Stillwater]

IN this one Cavs trade down to 8 ,17 and 2020 pick rights back from ATL for 5. Cavs also get a deal done with Miami for the 13th eating JJ contract for Smith , Cavs send out 26.
In other moves Boston gives up Tatum Memphis pick 2020,2 picks this yr etc for AD.
Miami s/t Goran and future to PHO for the 6th pick
I also have SAC eating Mozgov for the 16th from ORL
CHI eating Roberson and Patterson for 21 and a future
tried to predict who teams would target as the mock went on.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/598300/
Obviously a lot could go differently and there is no telling if the Cavs would bother trading down nor do I know if they should but I definitely think they have a good shot at getting 13.

[taj2133]

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[Stillwater]

In this one Memphis shakes up the top 5 by taking Culver after rejecting offers by others to move up prompting PHO to give up Ayton and the 6th to NY for #3 and Robinson outbidding ATL and their 3 later picks.
Barrett falls to 4 and the Lakers agree to deal it and LAL 2020 2nd to CLE for 5 ,26 , Utah 2020 2nd and Osman(Lebrons buddy) since the Lakers were always taking Garland but field offers for Barrett Cavs outbid ATL who was still offering 3 picks later when Garland would surely be gone.
Cavs eat James Johnson's deal get 13 send Miami a future 2nd for J.R.
other trades:
Boston gambles and sends Tatum, Smart 3 1sts 14,20 and Memphis 2020 for Davis despite probability of losing KI in hopes he decides to stay, which Griff likes most because of his affixation on Tatum.
CHI eats Mozgov for 1 yr to get the 16th
Sac sends a 2nd & eats Roberson for the 21st
Cavs grab Barrett and Bol ( 13 could easily be Goga,Little or Sekou if they are there as well)

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/598568/

[Stillwater]

barring any trades or unforeseen changes,
this is the Cavs BB for pick 5 imo:
[with zion and ja no chance]
Barrett
Culver
Sekou
and if Barrett refuses cavs workout than add White or Bol to the list behind Culver and Sekou.
and thats it. one of these prospects will be there.

[jbk1234]

barring any trades or unforeseen changes,
this is the Cavs BB for pick 5 imo:
[with zion and ja no chance]
Barrett
Culver
Sekou
and if Barrett refuses cavs workout than add White or Bol to the list behind Culver and Sekou.
and thats it. one of these prospects will be there.

I'm taking Hunter if he's there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Stillwater]

barring any trades or unforeseen changes,
this is the Cavs BB for pick 5 imo:
[with zion and ja no chance]
Barrett
Culver
Sekou
and if Barrett refuses cavs workout than add White or Bol to the list behind Culver and Sekou.
and thats it. one of these prospects will be there.

I'm taking Hunter if he's there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This team could definitely benefit from his defense but his offensive skill set is too limited imo not being a good initiator(poor ball handler), basket attacking finisher(due to poor explosiveness and finesse) or long range shooter( high % but very low attempt rate)
To me Hunter is a lock down defender who couldn't be a 3rd option on a contender and is too old to believe he will add those skills.
I would take Sekou , Culver and even White before I took Hunter if Barrett is gone.

[jbk1234]

barring any trades or unforeseen changes,
this is the Cavs BB for pick 5 imo:
[with zion and ja no chance]
Barrett
Culver
Sekou
and if Barrett refuses cavs workout than add White or Bol to the list behind Culver and Sekou.
and thats it. one of these prospects will be there.

I'm taking Hunter if he's there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This team could definitely benefit from his defense but his offensive skill set is too limited imo not being a good initiator(poor ball handler), basket attacking finisher(due to poor explosiveness and finesse) or long range shooter( high % but very low attempt rate)
To me Hunter is a lock down defender who couldn't be a 3rd option on a contender and is too old to believe he will add those skills.
I would take Sekou , Culver and even White before I took Hunter if Barrett is gone.

Both Butler and Leonard came into the league with limited offensive games. I don't know but it seems like the bad defenders never become good, or even passable defenders. I think I'd rather draft a guy who will give me elite defense but who has a limited offensive game, than draft the next TJ Warren or Clarkson at No. 5.

[Stillwater]

I'm taking Hunter if he's there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

This team could definitely benefit from his defense but his offensive skill set is too limited imo not being a good initiator(poor ball handler), basket attacking finisher(due to poor explosiveness and finesse) or long range shooter( high % but very low attempt rate)
To me Hunter is a lock down defender who couldn't be a 3rd option on a contender and is too old to believe he will add those skills.
I would take Sekou , Culver and even White before I took Hunter if Barrett is gone.

Both Butler and Leonard came into the league with limited offensive games. I don't know but it seems like the bad defenders never become good, or even passable defenders. I think I'd rather draft a guy who will give me elite defense but who has a limited offensive game, than draft the next TJ Warren or Clarkson at No. 5.

Culver is a solid defender and a better offensive prospect imo. Sekou is only 18 and already a better offensive player with the physical tools to become an elite defender despite only showing solid weak side blocking and ability to stay in front of anyone on the perimeter , should be the top target imo with Barrett probably gone at 3 or 4 and Culver taken too.
To me 5 is too high for a defensive specialist.