Update: Shams says NY/Utah have began trade discussions for Donovan Mitchell part 3

[ITGM]

Jim Dolan is at peak thirsty mode. Be prepared

"Leon, give them whatever they want for Donovan Carmelo Anthony Mitchell... right now!"

[Polk377]

Sit TF down Dolan and stay out of it

If he gets involved we’re giving up the house

Oh yeah.

Only thing Dolan is doing is securing his favorite player Melo once the trade goes down.

[Sprewell4Three]

Ainge is going to try to screw the Knicks. If Ainge is asking for too much. Move on. Let Mitchell go to the Heat or w/e


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NoDopeOnSundays]

People are underrating Mitchell at this point. He just had a season where he put up numbers as good if not better than Steph Curry who lead the Warriors to another title. Y’all talking about Ainge and the Celtics and Tatum and Brown like they just won the chip when in fact it was the 6’3” guard on the Warriors that destroyed them both. You can absolutely win with Mitchell, problem is Knicks didn’t put the right pieces in place for it. No he doesn’t need to be Luka or prime Lebron or Giannis. Jimmy Butler almost took out the Celtics on his own so get out of this mindset that the Celtics are some gold standard. Jazz didn’t build a team properly around Mitchell, Knicks could have an opportunity but changes will need to be made and pieces will need to be moved. This can’t / won’t be the group that gets it done. The problem is that the FO would believe that it is and that’s the main issue more than who Mitchell is as a player it’s the supporting cast around him that’s the issue

Ainge fleeced the Nets for Tatum and Brown, those were their picks, that should be enough of a warning sign on what we're about to do. Mitchell isn't Curry, there's only 1 Curry and people gotta stop comparing other players to him.

The Heat didn't trade Bam, Herro and 4 first rounders to get Jimmy, none of these other examples dumped everything they had into getting 1 guy. The only team that did that in recent history and won anything are the Lakers, AD shot 38% from three in the bubble, now they're looking hopeless, and we don't have a LeBron on our team to offset trading all those players & picks.

It's incredibly hard to trade that many players & picks and field a competitive team in the long term, it's why all these GMs want future picks when they trade their stars, because they're betting against your long term future.

He did so by dumping washed up dudes who had a one year window and it was downhill from there. Knicks am with Mitchell aren’t handing over a top 3 pick to the Jazz anytime soon. We will make the playoffs that’s for sure. Won’t get deep once there most likely but we won’t be in the lotto.

Yeah I’m aware Mitch isn’t Curry just like Im aware Tatum and Brown aren’t Luka or Lebron or Giannis. Mitch is very much in that same tier as both Tatum, Brown, Booker and others.

Giving up that many picks is crazy of course but what is our direction anyway? We are going into year 3 and Obi is still stuck behind Randle. Our other first round picks are stuck in bench roles. Besides RJ we don’t have a promising player who has been given an opportunity to thrive. Is that going to change? With the way we have been spending in free agency? It wasn’t happening and it’s why I was against the signings. The path we took was wrong. There is no turning back at this point. We fuqd up so might as well go all in now. They aren’t going to correct their mistakes and if they do attempt to it will come at a price. We saw it with Kemba. So what now? Trade more picks to dump Randle, Fournier and Mitch and Brunson? Basically would need to give up all those picks involved in the DMitch deal. This is the path they chose so it is what it is now.

They want a 2029 pick, they know that we won't be giving them any lottery picks right away, they're going to go after picks further out with less protections. The Mitchell thing will be cool for a year or two, then it'll be hard to build a team, because he's on a rookie max extension which means we can't trade for another 1 of those, and we'll have to rely on capspace which hasn't always gone our way, half the big names are locked up already.

The asking price is just too high for him, what is the harm in just going into the season and revisiting the trade at the deadline? If he's traded okay, there will be another one, who's to say SGA doesn't want out after another season where he gets mothballed to preserve the tank. I feel like we should just go into the season with what we have, let Grimes or Cam fight it out for the 2 guard spot, you aren't liking what you're seeing from Grimes right now? You and I actually agree on most of the Knicks moves, in terms of not being high on IQ, hating the Randle move, liking Obi and disliking Mitch. We're really not that far off from having a fun team that may be just as competitive with a brighter future, Randle is really the biggest dark cloud hanging over the team. If he's not there, and Obi is starting things look differently.

[Spree2Houston]

Read on Twitter

It’s probably what Ainge is hoping for. But I think Dolan will stay out of this one.

[knicksNOTslick]

Whenever blockbuster trades take this long, it's not happening. And for the better - I would really really like to see how our young guys look alongside a real point guard.

This statement makes no sense, we often times have no idea how long negotiations last for, but when the Knicks are involved, every detail, rumor, negotiation is being reported, trades may take weeks to get done.

They must've forgot about the Melo trade and how long that trade took. This might be following that trajectory seeing as how Masai Ujiri was the Nuggets GM at that time and now we're dealing with Ainge, another guy who usually fleeces the other team in deals.

That trade took awhile with all the rumors and Ujiri raising the stakes putting the Nets and Knicks against each other. So much so that Dolan intervened to make it happen.

Ainge seems to be doing the same thing. He's stalling, trying to look for another buyer, hoping the Knicks and Dolan would cave.

[snadler]

Ainge is going to try to screw the Knicks. If Ainge is asking for too much. Move on. Let Mitchell go to the Heat or w/e


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So just to be clear you prefer Mitchell go to the heat for a much lesser package than the Knicks can offer which it would be just so you can feel better?

[Clyde_Style]

I truly do not understand how Randle is going to work with Brunson and Mitchell. RJ needs touches too.

They really wanted Brunson, but in order to pair him with Mitchell? Really? I call BS

This is an ad hoc situation fueled by lust for a star, but none of this was planned. Sure, you can say we didn’t know Ainge was going into full rebuild mode in Utah, but our FO probably knew he was going that direction before the Gobert trade and before they signed Brunson.

The only clear plan was they wanted Brunson and they got him.

I’m not even opposed to trading for Mitchell, but how TF are you going to make Randle work in that line-up? YOU WON’T. He will be a disaster. But, yeah, ignore the issue and pretend our roster will be golden. It won’t. Mitchell might be great, but we have a serious roster construction problem with guys wanting touches and it is not resolvable. You can’t convince me Randle will willinglhy play a mostly off the ball game now and take a back seat to the backcourt. He’s going to pout and turn the locker room into a cesspool

[NoDopeOnSundays]

People are underrating Mitchell at this point. He just had a season where he put up numbers as good if not better than Steph Curry who lead the Warriors to another title. Y’all talking about Ainge and the Celtics and Tatum and Brown like they just won the chip when in fact it was the 6’3” guard on the Warriors that destroyed them both. You can absolutely win with Mitchell, problem is Knicks didn’t put the right pieces in place for it. No he doesn’t need to be Luka or prime Lebron or Giannis. Jimmy Butler almost took out the Celtics on his own so get out of this mindset that the Celtics are some gold standard. Jazz didn’t build a team properly around Mitchell, Knicks could have an opportunity but changes will need to be made and pieces will need to be moved. This can’t / won’t be the group that gets it done. The problem is that the FO would believe that it is and that’s the main issue more than who Mitchell is as a player it’s the supporting cast around him that’s the issue

Ainge fleeced the Nets for Tatum and Brown, those were their picks, that should be enough of a warning sign on what we're about to do. Mitchell isn't Curry, there's only 1 Curry and people gotta stop comparing other players to him.

The Heat didn't trade Bam, Herro and 4 first rounders to get Jimmy, none of these other examples dumped everything they had into getting 1 guy. The only team that did that in recent history and won anything are the Lakers, AD shot 38% from three in the bubble, now they're looking hopeless, and we don't have a LeBron on our team to offset trading all those players & picks.

It's incredibly hard to trade that many players & picks and field a competitive team in the long term, it's why all these GMs want future picks when they trade their stars, because they're betting against your long term future.

The Nets traded unprotected picks for players way past their prime. What we would be getting is a soon to be 26 year old just about to hit his prime. It depends on the deal. If we get to keep most of our young players, that should be alright. Our FO tends to do better with later picks anyways.

The Lakers did that, won a title, now their team looks like it's on welfare and the 26 yr old all-star they traded a kings ransom for isn't as good as they thought. The Nets also traded a lot for Harden, didn't work out.


I'm just not a fan of these kind of trade the farm for 1 guy type deals.

[snadler]

From Hahn:

Donovan Mitchell Watch is officially on. I don’t have reason to believe a deal is imminent at this point but I did earlier this week. The Jazz know what the Knicks have and what they’re willing to give up (draft capital). As I’ve said before, the Jazz do not seem to want RJ Barrett in a deal mainly because he is due a contract extension by October. Thibs has a great appreciation for Barrett. However that doesn’t mean he won’t be included in a deal of a third team emerges to help facilitate. The Jazz have other vets they wouldn’t mind moving on from and that could factor into the discussions.
What we know is the Knicks aren’t worried about the pick package they can offer. But the salary match is the complicated part because Utah apparently wants expiring contracts back. Look at the Gobert trade for framework.
Most people in the league — and media — feel this is an inevitability much like in 2011 when Carmelo Anthony wanted to be in New York. Other teams showed interest but most believed Melo would eventually wind up with the Knicks.
This isnt expected to be a roster-gutting type deal like that one, however. But to match the money…for players back the Jazz (or a third team) would want is a challenge,

[knicksNOTslick]

Ainge is going to try to screw the Knicks. If Ainge is asking for too much. Move on. Let Mitchell go to the Heat or w/e


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. If I'm the Knicks, I offer Ainge a deal slightly better than what the Heat could actually offer and let him know that's about as far as we can go. Just wait it out.

You think Ainge would like to help Pat Riley more than us if we got a better offer on the table? Maybe DWade would push for it, he's probably the one Utah Jazz guy that prefers Tyler Herro.

[Clyde_Style]

Randle is the # 1 issue, not whether or not Donovan Mitchell is good at basketball. Don’t try sweeping this under the rug. Randle is a problem child and if you think he was a brat last season, he’ll probably be worse if this trade goes down and he is still here

[Buttah304]

I’ll never forget Dolan telling the media “we’re getting big time pieces” when we had $70+ million in cap space during the KD sweepstakes. Mills was whispering in his ear and probably built a shrine of Durant guaranteeing it would happen.

We landed Bobby fuqqing Portis.

If Leon and WWW don’t deliver Donovan they are going to get Ned Stark’d.

I love Donovan and if I had to personally rank him I would probably have him pegged as #16 in the league. But man this package is going to be absolutely brutal. It’s going to be one of those things where I know I’ll feel moderately disgusted but excited AF to watch him. Even that doesn’t sound right.

[KnixtapeH20]

Ainge is going to try to screw the Knicks. If Ainge is asking for too much. Move on. Let Mitchell go to the Heat or w/e


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So just to be clear you prefer Mitchell go to the heat for a much lesser package than the Knicks can offer which it would be just so you can feel better?

No one gives AF about feeling better bro. It's very clear what he's saying. Do not let this **** screw us and leave us w.o all our picks and young players **** that. Move on like he said if ainge won't budge. We're not the ones that are desperate or NEED to make this move.

[snadler]

Ainge is going to try to screw the Knicks. If Ainge is asking for too much. Move on. Let Mitchell go to the Heat or w/e


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So just to be clear you prefer Mitchell go to the heat for a much lesser package than the Knicks can offer which it would be just so you can feel better?

No one gives AF about feeling better bro. It's very clear what he's saying. Do not let this **** screw us and leave us w.o all our picks and young players **** that. Move on like he said if ainge won't budge. We're not the ones that are desperate or NEED to make this move.

Oh I know what he’s saying, but his comment about going to Miami is just stupid, because the only way mitchell goes to Miami would be if Ainge takes a much lesser deal then the Knicks..so if that’s going to make him happy then good for him

[knicksNOTslick]

Ainge fleeced the Nets for Tatum and Brown, those were their picks, that should be enough of a warning sign on what we're about to do. Mitchell isn't Curry, there's only 1 Curry and people gotta stop comparing other players to him.

The Heat didn't trade Bam, Herro and 4 first rounders to get Jimmy, none of these other examples dumped everything they had into getting 1 guy. The only team that did that in recent history and won anything are the Lakers, AD shot 38% from three in the bubble, now they're looking hopeless, and we don't have a LeBron on our team to offset trading all those players & picks.

It's incredibly hard to trade that many players & picks and field a competitive team in the long term, it's why all these GMs want future picks when they trade their stars, because they're betting against your long term future.

The Nets traded unprotected picks for players way past their prime. What we would be getting is a soon to be 26 year old just about to hit his prime. It depends on the deal. If we get to keep most of our young players, that should be alright. Our FO tends to do better with later picks anyways.

The Lakers did that, won a title, now their team looks like it's on welfare and the 26 yr old all-star they traded a kings ransom for isn't as good as they thought. The Nets also traded a lot for Harden, didn't work out.


I'm just not a fan of these kind of trade the farm for 1 guy type deals.

You wouldn't trade the farm for a title? Are you a Knicks fan. We haven't won since the 70s.

The Anthony Davis trade worked out since they got a ring out of it. Who cares if you're on welfare afterwards. Totally worth it. Bad example.

They traded for Harden past his prime. He was, what? 31? And the dude doesn't take care of his body, coming in to camp out of shape. Completely unprofessional. The red flags were apparent.

[nyknicks09]

Leon needs to include Randle in the deal and keep Obi at all cost.

Randle, Grimes, IQ, McBride, and 5 future 1st round picks for DM

JB
DM
RJ
Obi
Mitch

We can run the floor like The Showtime Lakers with this lineup.

[HEZI]

Ainge fleeced the Nets for Tatum and Brown, those were their picks, that should be enough of a warning sign on what we're about to do. Mitchell isn't Curry, there's only 1 Curry and people gotta stop comparing other players to him.

The Heat didn't trade Bam, Herro and 4 first rounders to get Jimmy, none of these other examples dumped everything they had into getting 1 guy. The only team that did that in recent history and won anything are the Lakers, AD shot 38% from three in the bubble, now they're looking hopeless, and we don't have a LeBron on our team to offset trading all those players & picks.

It's incredibly hard to trade that many players & picks and field a competitive team in the long term, it's why all these GMs want future picks when they trade their stars, because they're betting against your long term future.

He did so by dumping washed up dudes who had a one year window and it was downhill from there. Knicks am with Mitchell aren’t handing over a top 3 pick to the Jazz anytime soon. We will make the playoffs that’s for sure. Won’t get deep once there most likely but we won’t be in the lotto.

Yeah I’m aware Mitch isn’t Curry just like Im aware Tatum and Brown aren’t Luka or Lebron or Giannis. Mitch is very much in that same tier as both Tatum, Brown, Booker and others.

Giving up that many picks is crazy of course but what is our direction anyway? We are going into year 3 and Obi is still stuck behind Randle. Our other first round picks are stuck in bench roles. Besides RJ we don’t have a promising player who has been given an opportunity to thrive. Is that going to change? With the way we have been spending in free agency? It wasn’t happening and it’s why I was against the signings. The path we took was wrong. There is no turning back at this point. We fuqd up so might as well go all in now. They aren’t going to correct their mistakes and if they do attempt to it will come at a price. We saw it with Kemba. So what now? Trade more picks to dump Randle, Fournier and Mitch and Brunson? Basically would need to give up all those picks involved in the DMitch deal. This is the path they chose so it is what it is now.

They want a 2029 pick, they know that we won't be giving them any lottery picks right away, they're going to go after picks further out with less protections. The Mitchell thing will be cool for a year or two, then it'll be hard to build a team, because he's on a rookie max extension which means we can't trade for another 1 of those, and we'll have to rely on capspace which hasn't always gone our way, half the big names are locked up already.

The asking price is just too high for him, what is the harm in just going into the season and revisiting the trade at the deadline? If he's traded okay, there will be another one, who's to say SGA doesn't want out after another season where he gets mothballed to preserve the tank. I feel like we should just go into the season with what we have, let Grimes or Cam fight it out for the 2 guard spot, you aren't liking what you're seeing from Grimes right now? You and I actually agree on most of the Knicks moves, in terms of not being high on IQ, hating the Randle move, liking Obi and disliking Mitch. We're really not that far off from having a fun team that may be just as competitive with a brighter future, Randle is really the biggest dark cloud hanging over the team. If he's not there, and Obi is starting things look differently.

So out off getting raped by Ainge and settle for getting raped by Presti?

If anything the time to jump on a deal is actually now because there isn’t much competition from rivals so Knicks can afford to play hardball. Later down the road who knows what happens and who is available and what the asking price is. Might be more or it might be a player that’s is older or worse or a player not interested in playing for us.

We know they are trying to bring someone in so if not today then tomorrow but they won’t have much more time with Dolan and then they will get desperate. That desperation move might be worse much worse than this one even.

This isn’t a fun team man. We’ve got some ok pieces but look at our direction. How awful were we this past year? What was our reward? Ivey? Chet? Banchero? No we got the 11th pick and had to trade out it was bad. It’s not a fun team, when they aren’t good for the playoffs and not bad for the top lotto talent and on top of that we are signing vets to take mins from guys like Obi and Grimes. That’s not going to change it’s going to be more of the same year after year. If so then fk it go get DMitch

[KnixtapeH20]

I truly do not understand how Randle is going to work with Brunson and Mitchell. RJ needs touches too.

They really wanted Brunson, but in order to pair him with Mitchell? Really? I call BS

This is an ad hoc situation fueled by lust for a star, but none of this was planned. Sure, you can say we didn’t know Ainge was going into full rebuild mode in Utah, but our FO probably knew he was going that direction before the Gobert trade and before they signed Brunson.

The only clear plan was they wanted Brunson and they got him.

I’m not even opposed to trading for Mitchell, but how TF are you going to make Randle work in that line-up? YOU WON’T. He will be a disaster. But, yeah, ignore the issue and pretend our roster will be golden. It won’t. Mitchell might be great, but we have a serious roster construction problem with guys wanting touches and it is not resolvable. You can’t convince me Randle will willinglhy play a mostly off the ball game now and take a back seat to the backcourt. He’s going to pout and turn the locker room into a cesspool

There's no too.

RJ is the leader of this team. If we get DMitch it'll be DMitch & RJ team. When we got Brunson I said it was still RJ's team, Brun just gona be the facilitator and not be on some this my team bs. He'll ease himself into the team and get everyone involved.

This is RJ Barrett team whether Randle or any Knicks fan likes it or not.

[AusKnicksTape]

I truly do not understand how Randle is going to work with Brunson and Mitchell. RJ needs touches too.

They really wanted Brunson, but in order to pair him with Mitchell? Really? I call BS

This is an ad hoc situation fueled by lust for a star, but none of this was planned. Sure, you can say we didn’t know Ainge was going into full rebuild mode in Utah, but our FO probably knew he was going that direction before the Gobert trade and before they signed Brunson.

The only clear plan was they wanted Brunson and they got him.

I’m not even opposed to trading for Mitchell, but how TF are you going to make Randle work in that line-up? YOU WON’T. He will be a disaster. But, yeah, ignore the issue and pretend our roster will be golden. It won’t. Mitchell might be great, but we have a serious roster construction problem with guys wanting touches and it is not resolvable. You can’t convince me Randle will willinglhy play a mostly off the ball game now and take a back seat to the backcourt. He’s going to pout and turn the locker room into a cesspool

This. If someones open to starting a thread for thoughts on how to make this work i'd be keen to hear. I know this thread is predominately targeted at the trade discussions but i'd love to see the hypotheticals on what happens in the event that Mitchell signs and RJ and Randle stay.

I genuinely don't see how it can work without RJ's development getting smashed and at that point if you're not focusing on RJ why would you be desperate to hold onto him. There's got to be some front office oversight here as Leon has shown that he looks after his own so they're not about to downgrade Brunson's role here. Brunson isn't getting traded in 6 months when he's eligible too.

Maybe they're thinking they'll move Randle at the deadline? I just cant't see how this works long term. I understand why Utah wouldn't want Randle but I can't understand why the Knicks are reportedly still so high on keeping him (if that is true of course)?

Spida's going to get his. Brunson is clearly going to get his since that was their big sell to him. RJ needs to get his otherwise whats the point.