Official Scottie Barnes Thread - Part 5

[StopitLeo]

As a roll man Scottie is very good, 88th percentile with an insane eFG of 74.4% generating at an absurd 1.39 points per possession.

the frustrating piece is that the raptors only use him in 0.8 possessions as a roll man. As a reference: guys like sengun has (3.4 possessions) with (1.14 PPP & 49th percentile) and mobley (3.4 possessions) with (1.16 PPP & 51st percentile) get theirs.

In nurse's offense, they like to have him sit in spread offense at the corner as a C&S three pointer. Talk about misuse.

It's the worst way to use him

He's going to need to knock down those shots eventually for the team to be any good. I don't have a problem with it.

For this year anyway.

He wouldn’t be in that position if he had more time as the primary ball-handler instead of Fred, which hopefully is the case next season.

I can’t be sure but that role for Scottie probably happens most when he played with Fred and Pascal; those lineups are not good but seemingly hard to avoid with our roster and injuries. Maybe that changes with Poeltl and guys coming back.

[JShuttlesworth]

He's going to need to knock down those shots eventually for the team to be any good. I don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather see him playing to his strengths than playing to his weaknesses

Set your players up to be successful

That's just me though

I think he is successful. But the team won't get better in the long-term if he's more of a roller.

Scottie needs the ball, he naturally wants to move it regardless

Sitting Barnes in the corner is not a good use of his talent (it's not maximizing it at least), it's just not where his strengths lie

[God Squad]

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/raptors-scottie-barnes-nba-best-passing-forwards/ot96tvgufimllauk8lbxuwnd

Great post. Just highlights why many of us love him. He's in great company on that "frontcourt players with most assists" list. Still raw in areas and obviously not a finished product, but I love him.

One dribble bounce pass off a rebound.

Fake floater into ally oop

Baseline wrap around pass for 3

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/raptors-scottie-barnes-nba-best-passing-forwards/ot96tvgufimllauk8lbxuwnd

[ATLTimekeeper]

I'd rather see him playing to his strengths than playing to his weaknesses

Set your players up to be successful

That's just me though

I think he is successful. But the team won't get better in the long-term if he's more of a roller.

Scottie needs the ball, he naturally wants to move it regardless

Sitting Barnes in the corner is not a good use of his talent (it's not maximizing it at least), it's just not where his strengths lie

Definitely not maximizing, but they're building him up as a player while trying to win. If he could actually initiate with the ball more than it'd be easier. Seems like he's just a weird player to build around. There's no one in the league like him.

[HumbleRen]

He’s already one of the best passing forwards in the league at 21 years old.

A smarter coach would utilize that more.

[aminiaturebuddha]

Baseline wrap around pass for 3

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/raptors-scottie-barnes-nba-best-passing-forwards/ot96tvgufimllauk8lbxuwnd

That one is really impressive, because the play is designed to go to Juancho in the corner (the Raptors run variations of this one all the time, especially after time outs). But he sees the Kings player drop down from the top of the arc to hedge towards the corner, and with his great court vision Scottie is able to know which man will now be open, and adjust on the fly to make the much harder pass back out to Boucher, and he hits him right in his shooting pocket. Just great in-the-moment playmaking.

[Johnny Bball]

Baseline wrap around pass for 3

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/raptors-scottie-barnes-nba-best-passing-forwards/ot96tvgufimllauk8lbxuwnd

That one is really impressive, because the play is designed to go to Juancho in the corner (the Raptors run variations of this one all the time, especially after time outs). But he sees the Kings player drop down from the top of the arc to hedge towards the corner, and with his great court vision Scottie is able to know which man will now be open, and adjust on the fly to make the much harder pass back out to Boucher, and he hits him right in his shooting pocket. Just great in-the-moment playmaking.

It's called The Hammer Play/Set.

Watch on YouTube

;t=2s

[Johnny Bball]

As a roll man Scottie is very good, 88th percentile with an insane eFG of 74.4% generating at an absurd 1.39 points per possession.

the frustrating piece is that the raptors only use him in 0.8 possessions as a roll man. As a reference: guys like sengun has (3.4 possessions) with (1.14 PPP & 49th percentile) and mobley (3.4 possessions) with (1.16 PPP & 51st percentile) get theirs.

In nurse's offense, they like to have him sit in spread offense at the corner as a C&S three pointer. Talk about misuse.

It's the worst way to use him

Not at all. They should have been doing it all year. He's shown the big to big passing here when they run this.

[Tha Cynic]

It's the worst way to use him

He's going to need to knock down those shots eventually for the team to be any good. I don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather see him playing to his strengths than playing to his weaknesses

Set your players up to be successful

That's just me though

To build him up individually into a more dynamic player I think expanding his mid range is a better play here. But, the Raptors are developing him the same way they developed their role players (starting with the 3). It makes me wonder what that does to a player's style of play on offense like OG for example who's very mechanical. I'm hoping this doesn't put him into a box. I'm not the expert here, but Siakam and Powell were able to expand more inside later.

Let's hope he kind of takes it upon himself like Siakam did and work more on his midrange game which becomes very important in the playoffs.

[Godaddycurse]

One problem with Barnes setting screens and being the roll man is his health/knees/legs. Can you imagine the beating he will take w/ defenders running hard into him?

Prior to Poeltl our screeners would always slip the screen before making contact which render it pretty useless for the ballhandler/harder for them to set up a play.

[JShuttlesworth]

He's going to need to knock down those shots eventually for the team to be any good. I don't have a problem with it.

I'd rather see him playing to his strengths than playing to his weaknesses

Set your players up to be successful

That's just me though

To build him up individually into a more dynamic player I think expanding his mid range is a better play here. But, the Raptors are developing him the same way they developed their role players (starting with the 3). It makes me wonder what that does to a player's style of play on offense like OG for example who's very mechanical. I'm hoping this doesn't put him into a box. I'm not the expert here, but I don't think developing the same way you developed your 3 and D guy is the right way.

Let's hope he kind of takes it upon himself like Siakam did and work more on his midrange game which becomes very important in the playoffs.

Agreed, I think developing his mid range is much more important than the corner three

The mid range will open up everything else for him

[Tha Cynic]

It's the worst way to use him

He's going to need to knock down those shots eventually for the team to be any good. I don't have a problem with it.

For this year anyway.

He wouldn’t be in that position if he had more time as the primary ball-handler instead of Fred, which hopefully is the case next season.

I can’t be sure but that role for Scottie probably happens most when he played with Fred and Pascal; those lineups are not good but seemingly hard to avoid with our roster and injuries. Maybe that changes with Poeltl and guys coming back.

This is it exactly. He's being developed as a role player in our current roster. I'm not sure how you expect some offensive explosion from there next season when he's barely taking mid range jumpers or trying anything other than inside pushshots and open 3s. He needs to fail doing things more dynamic in a lost season imo.

[HumbleRen]

He's going to need to knock down those shots eventually for the team to be any good. I don't have a problem with it.

For this year anyway.

He wouldn’t be in that position if he had more time as the primary ball-handler instead of Fred, which hopefully is the case next season.

I can’t be sure but that role for Scottie probably happens most when he played with Fred and Pascal; those lineups are not good but seemingly hard to avoid with our roster and injuries. Maybe that changes with Poeltl and guys coming back.

This is it exactly. He's being developed as a role player in our current roster. I'm not sure how you expect some offensive explosion from there next season when he's barely taking mid range jumpers or trying anything other than inside pushshots and open 3s. He needs to fail doing things more dynamic in a lost season imo.

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

[Johnny Bball]

For this year anyway.

He wouldn’t be in that position if he had more time as the primary ball-handler instead of Fred, which hopefully is the case next season.

I can’t be sure but that role for Scottie probably happens most when he played with Fred and Pascal; those lineups are not good but seemingly hard to avoid with our roster and injuries. Maybe that changes with Poeltl and guys coming back.

This is it exactly. He's being developed as a role player in our current roster. I'm not sure how you expect some offensive explosion from there next season when he's barely taking mid range jumpers or trying anything other than inside pushshots and open 3s. He needs to fail doing things more dynamic in a lost season imo.

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

[TorontoBarneys]

This is it exactly. He's being developed as a role player in our current roster. I'm not sure how you expect some offensive explosion from there next season when he's barely taking mid range jumpers or trying anything other than inside pushshots and open 3s. He needs to fail doing things more dynamic in a lost season imo.

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

Hot off the press from Johnny Quality: Barnes is a star player and is being treated like one.

[nikster]

This is it exactly. He's being developed as a role player in our current roster. I'm not sure how you expect some offensive explosion from there next season when he's barely taking mid range jumpers or trying anything other than inside pushshots and open 3s. He needs to fail doing things more dynamic in a lost season imo.

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

Barnes has the ball in his hands more than any sophomore except Cade, Giddey and Jalen Green. Cade is way ahead of the pack but Scottie is right behind Giddey and Green, and that difference is largely just bringing the ball up. He has the ball as much as Banchero. He gets more front court touches and has the ball in his hands twice as much Mobley.

I get we can use Barnes more effectively, but this idea that we are doing Barnes a massive disservice by not giving him the ball enough is ridiculous. There are many ways to effectively develop a player

[HumbleRen]

This is it exactly. He's being developed as a role player in our current roster. I'm not sure how you expect some offensive explosion from there next season when he's barely taking mid range jumpers or trying anything other than inside pushshots and open 3s. He needs to fail doing things more dynamic in a lost season imo.

They’re in win now mode.

Scottie being a role player is their best chance to win in the short term.

Long term ? I don’t think it’s the best pathway for him to come into his full potential but that’s the path they’ve chosen.

Leaps come from off season work and usage/repetition.

Barnes made his improvement half way through the season last year and is starting to do that again this year. And he's not a role player nor is he being treated like one. The ball is in his hands more near every fourth quarter, which is obviously his choice too.

I just personally don’t think Nurse sets his players up in the most advantageous spots in accordance to their strength.

[ItsDanger]

Scottie showed more mid range in first half of last season. To see more the spacing and personnel on the court needs improvement. Some guys like their spots and if more than one like same spot(s), well you can figure out someone must defer.

[BetterCallSaul]

I would push back on the notion that he's being developed as a role player. He is being developed as a winning player. As a winning player, you need to have the versatility to help your team on the ball as a focal point but also as a supporter to other focal points. He's not LeBron on offence, he's more like a more skilled Draymond (but way worse screener).
The other notable thing is that being developed as a winning player means you have to be precise and not make mistakes. Chucking up shots is not good, defensive lapses because you're more interested in taking the ball back the other way in transition are not good.

On the other hand, I totally agree that Scottie's offensive star will only come around with a dynamic mid-range profile. His pull-up, step back and push shots very very hard to guard and if he becomes really efficient at those, he will easily be dropping 25ppg. And yes, to develop that, he needs to take and miss a lot of those. Unfortunately this team doesn't tank and won't allow him to do that. It doesn't mean he won't learn how, it just means he doesn't get full NBA seasons to test that out. Meanwhile, he is learning about all the much harder aspects of being an elite player, so if he does develop that in between game he will become such a well rounded player.

It's not like he never gets touches to test out his offence, it's just that there's pressure on those touches. They aren't free and easy like on a tanking team. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, these are winning habits and they aren't easy to learn.

[HumbleRen]

I would push back on the notion that he's being developed as a role player. He is being developed as a winning player. As a winning player, you need to have the versatility to help your team on the ball as a focal point but also as a supporter to other focal points. He's not LeBron on offence, he's more like a more skilled Draymond (but way worse screener).
The other notable thing is that being developed as a winning player means you have to be precise and not make mistakes. Chucking up shots is not good, defensive lapses because you're more interested in taking the ball back the other way in transition are not good.

On the other hand, I totally agree that Scottie's offensive star will only come around with a dynamic mid-range profile. His pull-up, step back and push shots very very hard to guard and if he becomes really efficient at those, he will easily be dropping 25ppg. And yes, to develop that, he needs to take and miss a lot of those. Unfortunately this team doesn't tank and won't allow him to do that. It doesn't mean he won't learn how, it just means he doesn't get full NBA seasons to test that out. Meanwhile, he is learning about all the much harder aspects of being an elite player, so if he does develop that in between game he will become such a well rounded player.

It's not like he never gets touches to test out his offence, it's just that there's pressure on those touches. They aren't free and easy like on a tanking team. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, these are winning habits and they aren't easy to learn.

Very well said.

I agree with most of this.