PG: Nobody likes Black Santa Claus

[Dave4585]

I kinda feel bad for Jimmer. The media and crowd of the game put this crazy pressure on the guy and make him out to look like a circus act because hes getting more cheers than even someone like Lebron out there when hes a role player at best. I didn't think he looked that bad to be honest, sure Lillard torched him for three and he got beat by a few picks but at least he can hit an outside shot and he drove to the rim and had a nice pass to the GOD AWFUL KYLE O'QUINN who just threw to the outside for no reason.

[moocow007]

Its amazing. While I held only faint hope that this was a playoff team nevertheless it was at .500 playing well and leading a game when Melo tripped over a refs foot.

I'm not going to say that the trip caused the season to go boom but that sprain was teh point when everything fell apart., Hell, Toronto was even looking to trade the Knicks pick at that point because the value was diminishing. Not anymore.

And for those of you who want regime change. [img]I%20hope%20you%20realize%20that%20if%20you%20get%20change%20the%20type%20of%20change%20your%20going%20to%20get%20is%20the%20new%20guy%20trading%20a%201st%20for%20Bargniani%20because%20Dolan%20is%20in%20win%20now%20mode[/img](and fans want to see the GM do something). We'll overlook the fact that this team could trade for LBJ and they still won't sniff Golden State.

Are you trying to convince yourself that Phil Jackson isn't as bad as he's been?

No. I think Jackson inherited a mess. NY has some talent but that talent is surrounded by gaping holes. Namely, in a guard driven league NY's backcourt is horrific. That is a fundamental problem that just can't be patched over.

Jackson didn't inherit this backcourt. It's his backcourt. Every player on this team except Carmelo Anthony was brought in by him. Heck he had a chance to bring back the most successful guard NY has seen in over a decade and he passed on it to sign a fat Frenchman.

I'll posit this. If NY had its first round pick I don't think fans would be so down as they are. NY would have another lottery pick to pair with KP and they could address the backcourt. But they don't have a 1st this year so fans see no way out of the hole. Its not Phil Jackson's fault that NY traded away their lottery pick this year. He's got to work around that mess.

But NY doesn't have their own 1st round pick. But that's really neither here nor there since the bulk of his moves have done absolutely ****. And again, he's revamped this entire roster (except Anthony). That means all his choice. And that has become what?

[FKF]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/704874577407528960[/tweet]

Talk about being held accountable ...

Melo and Dolan are clowns.

Can they just buy the Nets, insert them to the Garden, and AEG takes over the Knicks at Barclays?

[moocow007]

Are you trying to convince yourself that Phil Jackson isn't as bad as he's been?

No. I think Jackson inherited a mess. NY has some talent but that talent is surrounded by gaping holes. Namely, in a guard driven league NY's backcourt is horrific. That is a fundamental problem that just can't be patched over.

I'll posit this. If NY had its first round pick I don't think fans would be so down as they are. NY would have another lottery pick to pair with KP and they could address the backcourt. But they don't have a 1st this year so fans see no way out of the hole. Its not Phil Jackson's fault that NY traded away their lottery pick this year. He's got to work around that mess.

I'll say this, Phil has made his fair share of mistakes & he has made a few good moves but overall the way we built the team after the Melo trade fu*ked us.

We wouldn't be worrying about the sh*t hole we're in this season if we did things properly a couple seasons ago.

Goddamn our front office has been so fu*king stupid.

It's been stupid since Dave Checketts left.

[Dave4585]

Phil Jackson's plan all along was to suck at his job so bad and get fired so he can collect paychecks for years to come in his home in LA

[FKF]

You really have confidence that Tom Thibodeau will be allowed free reign in this franchise without interference? That Isiah won't be undermining everything, as he probably already is?

Thibodeau here without a strong GM as a buffer between Dolan will be a disaster. Mills isn't that GM. He is just another Dolan yes man.

Got it

three points

This just Dolan's mess. Jackson certainly tried to hold Melo accountable and make him a better player. Was working until that Spurs loss.

God a few weeks ago, I was at MSG and watched a good Knicks team outplaying the Thunder without Melo, but just couldnt contain Durant.

For some reason, Melo just went back to his old habits. He has the relationship with Dolan, he's the billionaire's whore. At least, this shows JR/Shump weren't that much the problem.

[moocow007]

You really have confidence that Tom Thibodeau will be allowed free reign in this franchise without interference? That Isiah won't be undermining everything, as he probably already is?

Thibodeau here without a strong GM as a buffer between Dolan will be a disaster. Mills isn't that GM. He is just another Dolan yes man.

Got it

three points

This just Dolan's mess. Jackson certainly tried to hold Melo accountable and make him a better player. Was working until that Spurs loss.

God a few weeks ago, I was at MSG and watched a good Knicks team outplaying the Thunder without Melo, but just couldnt contain Durant.

For some reason, Melo just went back to his old habits. He has the relationship with Dolan, he's the billionaire's whore. At least, this shows JR/Shump weren't that much the problem.

Anthony isn't the reason the Knicks are being embarrassed on a nightly bases. If he was then he'd be on the Lebron James level of talent cause that would be the only way a crap team would even be sniffing .500 if their star goes sour.

[Dave4585]

Just blow this **** up already, I honestly rather see them bad as a rebuilding team rather than bad with the Misfits of Basketball Island who are the only ones that NY can sign because no top player wants to come here.

[Reign23]

couldn't watch the game but obv haven't missed anything beside another embarrasing loss for our knicks (aka "melo and the d-leaguers")

[Bill Pidto]

Are you trying to convince yourself that Phil Jackson isn't as bad as he's been?

No. I think Jackson inherited a mess. NY has some talent but that talent is surrounded by gaping holes. Namely, in a guard driven league NY's backcourt is horrific. That is a fundamental problem that just can't be patched over.

Jackson didn't inherit this backcourt. It's his backcourt. Every player on this team except Carmelo Anthony was brought in by him. Heck he had a chance to bring back the most successful guard NY has seen in over a decade and he passed on it to sign a fat Frenchman.

I'll posit this. If NY had its first round pick I don't think fans would be so down as they are. NY would have another lottery pick to pair with KP and they could address the backcourt. But they don't have a 1st this year so fans see no way out of the hole. Its not Phil Jackson's fault that NY traded away their lottery pick this year. He's got to work around that mess.

But NY doesn't have their own 1st round pick. But that's really neither here nor there since the bulk of his moves have done absolutely ****. And again, he's revamped this entire roster (except Anthony). That means all his choice. And that has become what?

C'mon, it's not that easy, man. You're overlooking a lot of elements. Just because these are all Phil's guys doesn't mean he had a very wide selection. You act as if he had a choice of almost any group of players in the league, and just happened to make the wrong decisions out of stupidity/laziness/stubornness.

Phil has passed up on some talent here and there. Some players he never had a shot at. Others he didn't think were worth the price tag. And I'm good with that. As lame and disappointing as this season has been for me, especially since I was one of the guys predicting a great season, I can still handle these losses and look to the near future with a smile.

Summer is around the corner, and it's shaping up to be pretty eventful. I don't know why im surprised at this board acting like such children, but I really can't believe so many people aren't willing to wait another few months to see how this shakes out. If this was Charlotte or Milwaukee, I think they'd be pretty stoked to have, in just 2 years, gotten rid of so many knuckleheads, cleared so much cap, and added a player like KP.

This is what a fresh new slate looks like. And we're supposed to fire Phil now because we're not winning yet?

[NY2TheBay]

"No Mr. Dolan they were chanting Jimmy! Jimmy!"
Dolan - "excellent"

[vincccent]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/vincccent/status/704984507322081280[/tweet]

[thebuzzardman]

Same lineup / rotation, same results its incredible how a coach can look down the bench and see Sasha and thinks he can help, Rambis sticks to the same rotation, Galloway could be off and he sticks with him, Jose gives you nothing and he sticks with him, only two players, Melo and KP should get the benefit of doubt.

And yet KP got the whopping 24 minutes.


The Knicks suck and it's not like I can even look forward to KP's development, because he's hardly getting any minutes, and frankly hasn't been all that great the last 5 games anyway.

[thebuzzardman]

Amazing...no Aldridge or Lopez and the Blazers are doing very well.

It's a guards league now. Everyone got the memo but Phil.

[Fat Kat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/vincccent/status/704984507322081280[/tweet]

And some people defend this clown. Hard to evaluate this team when you have such a glaring hole at the pg position. Rambis needs to go back to the broadcast booth and pretend he knows what he's talking about.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks management/coaching hires since '03:
- Isiah Thomas
- Lenny Wilkins
- Larry Brown
- Donnie Walsh
- Mike D'Antoni
- Glen Grunwald
- Mike Woodson
- Phil Jackson
- Derek Fisher
- Kurt Rambis

Prior to joining the Knicks:
- Great basketball minds
- Each had a fair share of notable success during previous stints (even if some had a few failures along the way)

Beginning of their Knicks tenure:
- Positive vibes and high hopes
- Not much to strongly suggest they could fail as miserably at their job as they end up failing

During their Knicks tenure or towards the end:
- Desperate gambles (Isiah taking on bad contracts and giving up draft picks for big name talent with bad reputations, Walsh giving A'mare 100 mil with evidence of bad knees, Grunwald trading a 1st rounder for Bargnani, Phil trading Chandler and Felton for Calderon)
- Extreme Stubbornness (Brown demanding players to "play the right way", D'Antoni making players who couldn't fit into his system completely obsolete, Woodson's insistence to "switch" on defense and ISO on offense, Fisher/Rambis refusing to run pick and rolls on a consistent basis or make basic lineup adjustments)
- Found it soooooo difficult to get a trade or signing done, as if to suggest the Knicks get blacklisted or get the short end of the stick compared to any other team in the league (Isiah, Walsh, Jackson)
- Physical health deteriorates dramatically (Wilkins, Walsh, maybe Jackson)
- Develop questionable relationships or attachments with players (Isiah with Marbury, D'Antoni with Duhon, Woodson with JR and Shump, Jackson with Vujacic and Odom, Fisher/Rambis with Calderon)
- Morally reprehensible behavior (Isiah many times, Fisher with Matt Barnes)
- Mental fatigue affecting either coaching decisions or choice of words with the media (Every coach)
- Would hide from the media or lash out at them when moves didn't pan out (Isiah, Walsh, Jackson)

I could go into more detail or add more, but basically, coaches and GM's come to the Knicks and turn into crap. It's like they all lose their minds and common sense once they get to NY.

That is because the evil puppet master was/is manipulating things behind the scenes:

[duetta]

What we're watching out there is absolutely disappointing, but the thing that makes it especially painful is that we traded our 2016 #1 pick twice - and thus can not possibly profit from the losing.

Everyone responsible for trading the rights to our future TWICE deserves to be gone - including the owner.

As for why they're playing so badly, after playing so well earlier, I think there must be serious problems in the locker room - and that the coaching change didn't fix them.

[superjay779]

The only thing more disturbing than watching the Knicks lose game after game is watching all these Isola quotes. I guess we are never going to learn as a group that this guy doesn't know anything. Also how is this worse than Layden and Zeke. Eddy Curry was the worst and we never had no draft pics. Nothing is worse than that. No draft pics equals no hope for the future.

[thebuzzardman]

Are you trying to convince yourself that Phil Jackson isn't as bad as he's been?

No. I think Jackson inherited a mess. NY has some talent but that talent is surrounded by gaping holes. Namely, in a guard driven league NY's backcourt is horrific. That is a fundamental problem that just can't be patched over.

Jackson didn't inherit this backcourt. It's his backcourt. Every player on this team except Carmelo Anthony was brought in by him. Heck he had a chance to bring back the most successful guard NY has seen in over a decade and he passed on it to sign a fat Frenchman.

I'll posit this. If NY had its first round pick I don't think fans would be so down as they are. NY would have another lottery pick to pair with KP and they could address the backcourt. But they don't have a 1st this year so fans see no way out of the hole. Its not Phil Jackson's fault that NY traded away their lottery pick this year. He's got to work around that mess.

But NY doesn't have their own 1st round pick. But that's really neither here nor there since the bulk of his moves have done absolutely ****. And again, he's revamped this entire roster (except Anthony). That means all his choice. And that has become what?

Yeah, have to agree. I mean, I've supported what Phil has done for the most part, but this roster sucks ass. And he put it together. Now, I understand there was a certain amount of financial restraint shown, in that he wasn't going overboard on any signing (except Melo of course) that had too much money or too long a commitment, so that limited choices, but even considering that, it's a lousy collection of players.

[Knicksfan1992]

Are you trying to convince yourself that Phil Jackson isn't as bad as he's been?

No. I think Jackson inherited a mess. NY has some talent but that talent is surrounded by gaping holes. Namely, in a guard driven league NY's backcourt is horrific. That is a fundamental problem that just can't be patched over.

I'll posit this. If NY had its first round pick I don't think fans would be so down as they are. NY would have another lottery pick to pair with KP and they could address the backcourt. But they don't have a 1st this year so fans see no way out of the hole. Its not Phil Jackson's fault that NY traded away their lottery pick this year. He's got to work around that mess.

I'll say this, Phil has made his fair share of mistakes & he has made a few good moves but overall the way we built the team after the Melo trade fu*ked us.

We wouldn't be worrying about the sh*t hole we're in this season if we did things properly a couple seasons ago.

Goddamn our front office has been so fu*king stupid.

This. This. This. We wouldn't be in this mess if we had any frickin clue about which way the league was trending as early as 3 years ago when we traded a bunch of expiring contracts, Novak, and such a dumb effing 1st for Bargnani because the "East is big man" Everyone so quick to blame Phil yet, fail to realize the true chit storm he came into. Now we have a chance to actually somewhat fix things starting this summer with the flexibility and 1st round picks Phil has left untouched and people want to throw that away for some other name to come in and make a big splash? For what? Because a team overachieved for more than half the season and now are quickly regressing to the mean? Give me a break..... Let Phil do his thing. We may not be as good as the team Phil inherited but, we have a much brighter future than that team ever did especially under the management it was under...