Bulls Free Agency - Merged

[Betta Bulleavit]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

[Leslie Forman]

Nobody is flocking to Chicago to play with 19M Lavine and 8M Felicio. And call it for culture of winning. Those are negative players by all advanced stats who contribute anything other than winning.

I dont get how this are considered good ideas.

You haven't seen a fully healthy LaVine with a healthy and experience Lauri and the Bulls with a full desire to win.
You have no idea what players might want to team up with LaVine if he plays extremely well.

If the Bulls don't develop talent, no FA is going to come anyway. What about that is hard to understand as a good idea?

This is how you end up with a Chandler Parsons or Evan Turner.

[TheSuzerain]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

Where's the urgency to offer this though?

If Bulls don't offer Lavine the deal he wants, what is Lavine's next step?

[samwana]

You expect Lavine to leave? Well good news is that he is currently working on a deal to stay in Chicago. He's not interested in leaving at all. Lavine will be re-signing with us.

Holv03, what would you expect the terms of the deal to be as of this morning?


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Not sure but we could see so sething somilar to Niko contract or a 4yr 75m type of deal. Still in negotiations but he's returning that's all I have heard. He's focus on being a Bull for the future.

Bad news, both the contract and the amount of $.
I was hoping someone would offer him a big contract.

4/75 would be a really bad contract before it is even signed. Ugh

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[Betta Bulleavit]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

Where's the urgency to offer this though?

If Bulls don't offer Lavine the deal he wants, what is Lavine's next step?

He can either take what we give him or take the QO. To me, that’s a nuclear option that I don’t think bodes well for either side. Bad risk for Lavine and a bad look for then Bulls in terms of FA optics.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Holv03, what would you expect the terms of the deal to be as of this morning?


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Not sure but we could see so sething somilar to Niko contract or a 4yr 75m type of deal. Still in negotiations but he's returning that's all I have heard. He's focus on being a Bull for the future.

Bad news, both the contract and the amount of $.
I was hoping someone would offer him a big contract.

4/75 would be a really bad contract before it is even signed. Ugh

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I don’t love it. But as I’ve stated, there are plenty of guys with lower upside that will be making more both this season and next.

[Jvaughn]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

Where's the urgency to offer this though?

If Bulls don't offer Lavine the deal he wants, what is Lavine's next step?

He can go get Atlanta or Sacramento to offer him more, then put us in a place where we're forced to decide to match or lose him for nothing.

And who's to say it's urgent? We don't even have any reports to say its been offered.

[samwana]

Not sure but we could see so sething somilar to Niko contract or a 4yr 75m type of deal. Still in negotiations but he's returning that's all I have heard. He's focus on being a Bull for the future.

Bad news, both the contract and the amount of $.
I was hoping someone would offer him a big contract.

4/75 would be a really bad contract before it is even signed. Ugh

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I don’t love it. But as I’ve stated, there are plenty of guys with lower upside that will be making more both this season and next.

I hate the numbers. Zach hasn't done anything positive for the team. By all stats he is a bad basketball player. He has a smooth shot and can do fancy dunks. He makes his teammates worse, way worse. I don't want our team to play his kind of basketball, it's ugly.

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[MGB8]

I don’t buy the Kings or Hawks reports. Agent fluff. Let him get another team to offer a big deal, and then the Bulls figure out if they match or not. With my vote for not.

Better to let him walk than sign a crippling deal.

[BigJimFinn]

Looks at this list here. There are a ton of players on here making more than 18 million that I'd take Lavine over. That's why I think that's a decent deal since we have to use the cap space anyway. He has an upside that could earn him a max contract if he reaches his ceiling, so you can't let those guys just leave the team when they are this young.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

Yes, there are many bad contracts in the NBA, and many teams tend to overpay free agents.
And when you pick out the players making 20+ million who are worse than LaVine, you realise they are on teams who are not very good, and would like to get rid of those contracts to get better. Most teams are never contending for titles, because they make mistakes before getting to that level. The only way the Bulls can ever become a contender is by avoiding such mistakes, and signing players who overperform their contracts. If you believe LaVine likely to overperform $18M contract, then your stance is justifiable even if I completely disagree. What I cannot understand are people who don't expect him to become great but want to overpay him just because.

[MGB8]

If Lavine gets 19 per year I am out. There is no point watching this team grow. We are literally two years in row handling bad contracts. Basically putting shakles on our hands and legs

So let me understand this. Your stance is that rather than retaining an asset we acquired, we should simply allow said asset to walk away due to the perceived cost?
Now, let me ask you this...where is that 19 mil going in your mind then? As you can see, just having cap room does not mean anything in the NBA.

So you essentially want to deal away or discard any asset that you deem unworthy of such a pay day and then have no actual plan to acquire more assets or improved ones?
Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Good chance that Lavine would not be an asset if he costs $19 million per year. In the same way that Felicio was an asset for $1 million/year but became a liability when that became $8 million/year.

This.

[BR0D1E86]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

Where's the urgency to offer this though?

If Bulls don't offer Lavine the deal he wants, what is Lavine's next step?

He can go get Atlanta or Sacramento to offer him more, then put us in a place where we're forced to decide to match or lose him for nothing.

And who's to say it's urgent? We don't even have any reports to say its been offered.

Then he can go. For four straight seasons he’s literally been worse for his team than piling up his salary and burning it.

[sco]

Does the VanVleet deal (9 mil per year) give any indication of Portis' value/contract?

VanVleet was a young bench player at end of contract, made a big name for himself this year as a sixth-man. Only 20 mpg last year but def increased big time as season went on. Toronto got a pretty great deal for a guy they expect to only get better.

I think on one hand, Portis' stats have proven more across a season than VanVleet (last year, Portis took a mighty jump statistically in his Per36 and PER). But I do think VanVleet will be a bigger impact across his deal.

Seeing this and other contracts, makes me think we could get a 3/32 with Portis .. or 4/45. I'd be very happy with that (think we should really focus on getting it just under 12 mil/per at least)

I hope the FO cares about your happiness more than mine, cuz that would not make me happy.

Good for Bobby if he can get $10M+ per year, but bad for Bulls if they are tying up any significant contracts for bench guys. I can live with Felicio deal, but that's about it.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Bad news, both the contract and the amount of $.
I was hoping someone would offer him a big contract.

4/75 would be a really bad contract before it is even signed. Ugh

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I don’t love it. But as I’ve stated, there are plenty of guys with lower upside that will be making more both this season and next.

I hate the numbers. Zach hasn't done anything positive for the team. By all stats he is a bad basketball player. He has a smooth shot and can do fancy dunks. He makes his teammates worse, way worse. I don't want our team to play his kind of basketball, it's ugly.

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People invest way too much into that narrative. First, for all of the talk about guys making their teammates better or worse, there are only a handful of players that truly have that capability. Lavine isn’t one of them. Secondly, and this is something that I’ve stated before that nobody ever really wants to acknowledge is that in both locations that he’s been in THE LOSING WAS HAPPENING BEFORE HE ARRIVED! The only teal argument that people can make is that it didn’t end with him either. But this notion that you put Zach into the equation and all of a sudden the losing starts is a bunch of hogwash.

[Jvaughn]

He can go get Atlanta or Sacramento to offer him more, then put us in a place where we're forced to decide to match or lose him for nothing.

And who's to say it's urgent? We don't even have any reports to say its been offered.

Then he can go. For four straight seasons he’s literally been worse for his team than piling up his salary and burning it.

Not going to judge his Minnesota time. That whole team was a mess before Jimmy got there. KAT and Wiggins are jokes and are arguably bigger issues. And Lavine was wildly inefficient last year, but anyone expecting him to come back off an ACL injury and improve a Bulls team like we had last year was kidding themselves.

The positives I see in him are that he may be the only person on this team who can consistently create for themself. At this point he is the only player who can give you 20+ on any given night. He can score at all three levels and has a tendency to catch fire. He definitely needs to work on his off ball defense, his shot selection, and his willingness to pass, but I think he's worth a flyer.

We're not talking about giving him $100 million. If $75 mil is that magic number, roll the dice. It's not like we've had any real luck attracting big FAs here over the years, so we're going to have to take some risks at growing that talent at home. Letting assets walk is not the way to do that.

[musiqsoulchild]

If those numbers are right, I am sold.

I mean, in 2010 that's how much we gave Carlos Boozer. And that was a value contract in 2010.

[TheSuzerain]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

Where's the urgency to offer this though?

If Bulls don't offer Lavine the deal he wants, what is Lavine's next step?

He can either take what we give him or take the QO. To me, that’s a nuclear option that I don’t think bodes well for either side. Bad risk for Lavine and a bad look for then Bulls in terms of FA optics.

If those are indeed Lavine's choices (and I think there is a very good chance that is the case), then the Bulls are in a dominant negotiating position. Our offer to Lavine should reflect that.

[sco]

If those numbers are right, I am sold.

I mean, in 2010 that's how much we gave Carlos Boozer. And that was a value contract in 2010.

And the Boozer deal turned out well. 2 wrongs don't make...

[TheSuzerain]

18.75M falls squarely in that “cooking my grits “ category where I would probably do it, but begrudgingly. My perfect range falls between 15 and 17M. After that, I’m hesitant but would do it as long as we are under 20. Know though that there are quite a few guys with far less upside that are making similar money.

Where's the urgency to offer this though?

If Bulls don't offer Lavine the deal he wants, what is Lavine's next step?

He can go get Atlanta or Sacramento to offer him more, then put us in a place where we're forced to decide to match or lose him for nothing.

And who's to say it's urgent? We don't even have any reports to say its been offered.

Lavine's ability to get that offer from Atlanta or Sacramento is not a sure thing at all.

[samwana]

I don’t love it. But as I’ve stated, there are plenty of guys with lower upside that will be making more both this season and next.

I hate the numbers. Zach hasn't done anything positive for the team. By all stats he is a bad basketball player. He has a smooth shot and can do fancy dunks. He makes his teammates worse, way worse. I don't want our team to play his kind of basketball, it's ugly.

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People invest way too much into that narrative. First, for all of the talk about guys making their teammates better or worse, there are only a handful of players that truly have that capability. Lavine isn’t one of them. Secondly, and this is something that I’ve stated before that nobody ever really wants to acknowledge is that in both locations that he’s been in THE LOSING WAS HAPPENING BEFORE HE ARRIVED! The only teal argument that people can make is that it didn’t end with him either. But this notion that you put Zach into the equation and all of a sudden the losing starts is a bunch of hogwash.

We have seen it happen with our own team, as soon as Zach came back Lauri and Dunn's game both vanished. As aoin as Zach was hold out, Lauri started balling again.

Zach makes teams worse, all the stats show it. Plus the eye test showing the same. Zach is a ball hog and loves to take bad shots with teammates being open and ready.

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