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Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

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What should the Knicks approach be with Frank

Try to develop until prime years (~26) - essentially hold until it's 100% clear what he is
45
30%
Hold and try to develop until the end of rookie contract
64
43%
Hold until season's end/middle of next season to make a decision
13
9%
Look to trade him now for assets and/or a salary dump
23
15%
Other
5
3%
 
Total votes: 150

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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#301 » by mpharris36 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:45 pm

whocares1 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
What happens when he sh*ts the bed in the gleague? Has Frank ever dominated a summer league game?


how will you know if you don't find out...playing zero minutes isn't helping.


Nothing is helping. Playing him a lot of minutes, playing him a little bit of minutes, not playing him at all. Nothing is working and it’s not because of Fiz. Alan Hahn said it on the radio today. Dude lacks confidence out there as soon as he misses a couple shots in a row. Even if Burke and Timmy are struggling a team still has to guard them. When Frank isn’t shooting he’s predictable and that affects his teammates.

The micro-analysis of why Frank is struggling isn’t worth it. He’s simply not ready and Fiz is neither helping nor hurting Frank’s development. Until he plays with an edge he’s not going to get consistent minutes.



the famous words of your username....WHO CARES!

if losing ultimately matters...WHO CARES!!!!
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#302 » by mpharris36 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:52 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
What happens when he sh*ts the bed in the gleague? Has Frank ever dominated a summer league game?


how will you know if you don't find out...playing zero minutes isn't helping.


Nothing's helping. He’s been bad on both ends of the ball. Perhaps he simply sucks.


as does the rest of the roster...your point?

still doesn't address the ultimate development goal which we have been down time and time again.

Perhaps he simply does suck.... however if you look at our roster...this might be a new revelation to you but we had the worst record in december with his 4 DNP's and his minutes shrinking...so yes we suck...with or without him. But he is under contract for 2 more years at least so it would behoove the knicks and FO to get him right...whether thats to eventually keep him or trade him...it benefits nobody for him to be playing like this.

I'm at least trying to find solutions to try and fix him...because whatever flat is doing now isn't helping.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#303 » by whocares1 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:53 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
how will you know if you don't find out...playing zero minutes isn't helping.


Nothing is helping. Playing him a lot of minutes, playing him a little bit of minutes, not playing him at all. Nothing is working and it’s not because of Fiz. Alan Hahn said it on the radio today. Dude lacks confidence out there as soon as he misses a couple shots in a row. Even if Burke and Timmy are struggling a team still has to guard them. When Frank isn’t shooting he’s predictable and that affects his teammates.

The micro-analysis of why Frank is struggling isn’t worth it. He’s simply not ready and Fiz is neither helping nor hurting Frank’s development. Until he plays with an edge he’s not going to get consistent minutes.



the famous words of your username....WHO CARES!

if losing ultimately matters...WHO CARES!!!!


It affects spacing for players I actually care about. Knox, Trier, and Mitch. So yes I have to care.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#304 » by Cookies4Life » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:58 pm

I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#305 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:00 am

whocares1 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
Nothing is helping. Playing him a lot of minutes, playing him a little bit of minutes, not playing him at all. Nothing is working and it’s not because of Fiz. Alan Hahn said it on the radio today. Dude lacks confidence out there as soon as he misses a couple shots in a row. Even if Burke and Timmy are struggling a team still has to guard them. When Frank isn’t shooting he’s predictable and that affects his teammates.

The micro-analysis of why Frank is struggling isn’t worth it. He’s simply not ready and Fiz is neither helping nor hurting Frank’s development. Until he plays with an edge he’s not going to get consistent minutes.



the famous words of your username....WHO CARES!

if losing ultimately matters...WHO CARES!!!!


It affects spacing for players I actually care about. Knox, Trier, and Mitch. So yes I have to care.


oh really do you have any stats to back that up

frank and knox share the floor with a 103.8 OFF rating
mudiay and knox share the floor with a 104.2 OFF rating

man oh man that shooting costing us .4 OFF rating is KILLING THIS TEAM! :eyeroll:

lets try burke...

102.8....hmmm thats worse than Frank.... hmmmmmmmmmm really effecting knox's game huh....

and thats for anyone who only cares about knox's offensive developement...having a smart defensive guard with him doesn't hurt his development easily. I don't want him to get into bad habits playing alongside turnstiles defensively.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#306 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:03 am

Cookies4Life wrote:I'm still perplexed as to why he's such a polarizing figure for this fanbase.

Why exactly wouldn't the entire fanbase be behind this kid and root for his development?

Do we forget he was viewed as a long term project coming out of the draft, now people want his head on a plate after about 120 games into his pro career that has been mired with some stupid coaches, dysfunctional rosters and the pressure of developing in such a stressful environment as NYC?

If he didn't show flashes at the very least on the offensive end than I'd be very concerned. he's already eclipsed his career high 3 times this year and this is with Fizdale's unusual rotation patterns of giving multiple DNP's to certain guys on the team.

I thought the plan was to tank and try to get Zion/RJ/Ja? Why wouldn't we want this kid to be getting 30 plus minutes a game right now. Worse case, he develops at a snails pace and helps this team lose games. Best case he starts improving and showing more consistency on the offensive end.

Some people react well to getting DNP's while others not so much. This isn't some 10 year veteran; he's one of the youngest players in the league and we should absolutely be fostering his development by playing him, not having him ride the bench and be a spectator watching terrible players like Hardaway Jr chuck up 20 plus shots.

I'm baffled by this fanbase- I thought the one good quality we all had is we root for our draft picks since we get a connection with them being somewhat "homegrown." He's on a rookie contract, already one of the best defenders on the team and I'd rather roll out there with him seeing at minimum 25 minutes nightly. But most importantly, allowing the kid to work through his mistakes rather than keeping him on such a short leash.

This isn't rocket science- we're trying to tank and we have a bunch of young guys that need minutes in order to develop. it's the perfect time to allow the young kids to get ample PT and see who's a keeper for the future. Guys like Kanter and Lee should be the one's riding the pine, not rookies and 2nd year players.



the correct answer is probably somewhere around the fanbase not being that smart...
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#307 » by whocares1 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:11 am

mpharris36 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:

the famous words of your username....WHO CARES!

if losing ultimately matters...WHO CARES!!!!


It affects spacing for players I actually care about. Knox, Trier, and Mitch. So yes I have to care.


oh really do you have any stats to back that up

frank and knox share the floor with a 103.8 OFF rating
mudiay and knox share the floor with a 104.2 OFF rating

man oh man that shooting costing us .4 OFF rating is KILLING THIS TEAM! :eyeroll:

lets try burke...

102.8....hmmm thats worse than Frank.... hmmmmmmmmmm really effecting knox's game huh....

and thats for anyone who only cares about knox's offensive developement...having a smart defensive guard with him doesn't hurt his development easily. I don't want him to get into bad habits playing alongside turnstiles defensively.


You only use stats when it benefits you. How about Frank being the worst offensive guard in the NBA and 88th in DRPM. Truth is that Frank isn’t worth it man. He isn’t what you wanted him to be Fiz or no Fiz.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#308 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:17 am

A young player with shot confidence. Idk how you boost his confidence, just playing him and lay bricks certainly wouldn't help.

But then again, I've always felt it's mental. Minutes wont help that.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#309 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:37 am

whocares1 wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
whocares1 wrote:
It affects spacing for players I actually care about. Knox, Trier, and Mitch. So yes I have to care.


oh really do you have any stats to back that up

frank and knox share the floor with a 103.8 OFF rating
mudiay and knox share the floor with a 104.2 OFF rating

man oh man that shooting costing us .4 OFF rating is KILLING THIS TEAM! :eyeroll:

lets try burke...

102.8....hmmm thats worse than Frank.... hmmmmmmmmmm really effecting knox's game huh....

and thats for anyone who only cares about knox's offensive developement...having a smart defensive guard with him doesn't hurt his development easily. I don't want him to get into bad habits playing alongside turnstiles defensively.


You only use stats when it benefits you. How about Frank being the worst offensive guard in the NBA and 88th in DRPM. Truth is that Frank isn’t worth it man. He isn’t what you wanted him to be Fiz or no Fiz.



He's bad...I get that. I don't know how else to explain it to you...they are all bad! Mudiay makes himself better...he doesn't not help knox or the team overall by our disastrous (or glorious) december vs a relatively easy schedule and him playing 32 minutes a night....so basically they are all bad...regardless of what stats anyone says. So again no one is helping or hurting anyone but you are the worried about frank hurting Knox...and im telling you there isn't a player on this roster that will help knox. So im just debunking the argument no more no less.

Your post is making out like im sugar coating franks performance on offense...he hasn't been good but in terms of effecting other players that argument is bogus and I proved that regardless of his atrocious offensive ratings. Which I have acknowledge...
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#310 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:39 am

Thugger HBC wrote:A young player with shot confidence. Idk how you boost his confidence, just playing him and lay bricks certainly wouldn't help.

But then again, I've always felt it's mental. Minutes wont help that.


dajounte murray went to the dleague
siakam spent time in the dleague

i don't know why this isn't at least an option...
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#311 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:46 am

mpharris36 wrote:in a development year Fiz seems to be pretty clueless in terms of communicating to his players. If he was planning on using Burke (which he clearly was). Why in the world wouldn't he communicate that to his players?

Seems like he has literally no direction or idea what he is doing going by a game by game basis instead of looking at the totality of what he is doing...

I don't know that the Frank back-and-forth is very productive for anyone - I mean its a bunch of Knicks fans trying to talk about what would be a good pro basketball team's moves based on the experience of watching every twitch the Knicks GMs have made over the last 20 years. So everyone's supremely underqualified to have the least idea .. as is Mills. So I really haven't wanted to put my oar in as well in this thread.

However ... I have a much shorter leash for Fizdale than nearly every other (even semi-) regular poster, and while I think mph is need not necessarily be "right" in the quoted post, he is imo groping towards something that possibly may well be real.

I was amazed by Fizdale's explanation of his use of Frank for a minute at the end of the penultimate game. (And here I have to apologize to whoever asked in the game thread why Frank had been so quickly yanked again when Fizdale pulled him - in that thread I waived it off as to off/def subs but that clearly - by Fiz's comments afterwards - wasn't the case.) He said he tried Frank - essentially to stench the flood of pts for the opponents, but then paused and said that probably it would have been better to have played Burke. Ok, so Burke had gone 3-16 in 2 games and then sat the next 92 minutes of basketball, so throwing him on cold to try to lead a win there would make absolutely no sense. And indeed in the 25 Dec game he went 1/7 (giving him 4/25 in 50 minutes of court time since he came back from injury).

But it was something to say. I have no idea whether that was an internal debate he was having on the bench before putting Frank in - in which case wtf - or snake oil he made up in the press conference. However vocalizing it, either way, I think pretty much made up his mind that he was going to play Burke the next game in place of Ntilikina's minutes. That is, once he had said it would probably have been better to play Burke (at that juncture) he couldn't back away from the idea that it was better to play Burke .. and Burke should get the backup PG minutes in the next game. And then came this incoherent rubbish about players struggling and .. yeah .. we all see that's made up of whole cloth regardless of view about Ntilikina since .. box score stats ... as ex post facto justification.

Long story short .. I think flat is fos and has no plan.

Other flat news: it was pretty tellling to see that flat put out a statement praising KP for being generally "a good egg". He's trying to shore up his relationship with KP. If the Knicks recruit KD or KL then imo 100% KP signs. Otherwise, I'm really starting to wonder, even though I dare say KP is enthusiastic/supportive for now, and has some of the young Knicks as under his wing.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#312 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:50 am

eeeesssh double post :(
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#313 » by fatalogic » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:02 am

Like most things I think Knicks Film schoo had a pretty good take on it. Perhaps when Fiz say struggling he means in approach not scoring. If he bases his rotations on approach then his rotations make sense to me. Can’t tell me he is trying to win with one of the worst defensive units in the league.

The thing most people seem to be ignoring is that with David Fizdale, results are only part of the equation. For him, approach seems to matter just as much.

In no uncertain terms, Frank has been horrible on the offensive end this year, and that is maybe not a strong enough word to describe his performance. Of the 159 players this season with a 16 usage rate or higher who’ve played at least 10 games and 20 minutes a night, Ntilikina’s 43.6 true shooting percentage ranks dead last. Yet that didn’t stop Fizdale from giving him another bite at the apple after a few games on the bench earlier this month.

Had Frank maintained the approach he had in those first three games, regardless of the results, he likely would have been able to give his mom a Merry Christmas. That wasn’t the case though. We know Frank is doing what the coaching staff asks when he drives the lane and shoots without hesitation. In his two outbursts against Charlotte and Cleveland, Ntilikina had seven and nine drives, respectively, to go with 24 total shots. In the five games after that, he averaged only 5.2 drives and 5.6 field goal attempts.

That might not seem like a drastic enough difference to warrant a seat back on the bench, but when you factor in the results – 21% shooting over those five games – yeah, it kind of does.

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/12/26/where-were-at-with-frank-ntilikina/
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#314 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:14 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:A young player with shot confidence. Idk how you boost his confidence, just playing him and lay bricks certainly wouldn't help.

But then again, I've always felt it's mental. Minutes wont help that.


dajounte murray went to the dleague
siakam spent time in the dleague

i don't know why this isn't at least an option...

Lesser competition isn't his issue. How can you guard the best players, but afraid to go at one?

Sending to the g might make him quit the sport.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#315 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:17 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:A young player with shot confidence. Idk how you boost his confidence, just playing him and lay bricks certainly wouldn't help.

But then again, I've always felt it's mental. Minutes wont help that.


dajounte murray went to the dleague
siakam spent time in the dleague

i don't know why this isn't at least an option...

Lesser competition isn't his issue. How can you guard the best players, but afraid to go at one?

Sending to the g might make him quit the sport.


because his defensive skill set is clearly way ahead of his offensive skillset??

i think your exaggerating a little bit, the kid made it to the NBA he isn't a little scared boy in a corner...he's a development piece that needs reps.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#316 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:27 am

fatalogic wrote:Like most things I think Knicks Film schoo had a pretty good take on it. Perhaps when Fiz say struggling he means in approach not scoring. If he bases his rotations on approach then his rotations make sense to me. Can’t tell me he is trying to win with one of the worst defensive units in the league.

The thing most people seem to be ignoring is that with David Fizdale, results are only part of the equation. For him, approach seems to matter just as much.

In no uncertain terms, Frank has been horrible on the offensive end this year, and that is maybe not a strong enough word to describe his performance. Of the 159 players this season with a 16 usage rate or higher who’ve played at least 10 games and 20 minutes a night, Ntilikina’s 43.6 true shooting percentage ranks dead last. Yet that didn’t stop Fizdale from giving him another bite at the apple after a few games on the bench earlier this month.

Had Frank maintained the approach he had in those first three games, regardless of the results, he likely would have been able to give his mom a Merry Christmas. That wasn’t the case though. We know Frank is doing what the coaching staff asks when he drives the lane and shoots without hesitation. In his two outbursts against Charlotte and Cleveland, Ntilikina had seven and nine drives, respectively, to go with 24 total shots. In the five games after that, he averaged only 5.2 drives and 5.6 field goal attempts.

That might not seem like a drastic enough difference to warrant a seat back on the bench, but when you factor in the results – 21% shooting over those five games – yeah, it kind of does.

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/12/26/where-were-at-with-frank-ntilikina/

This is Macri - a long term Frankophobe, not Knickstape, a long term Frankophile. It gives their site some kind of push/pull attraction (in theory), I suppose. Frankly, I think we are all well past needing to read the trolls so we can get excited, but it's a marketing strategy of some sort I suppose.
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#317 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:31 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
dajounte murray went to the dleague
siakam spent time in the dleague

i don't know why this isn't at least an option...

Lesser competition isn't his issue. How can you guard the best players, but afraid to go at one?

Sending to the g might make him quit the sport.


because his defensive skill set is clearly way ahead of his offensive skillset??

i think your exaggerating a little bit, the kid made it to the NBA he isn't a little scared boy in a corner...he's a development piece that needs reps.

It's all mental with Frank. he said it himself that he's always thinking. But right now his confidence is shot. that's not what the g-league is for,
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#318 » by mpharris36 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:41 am

Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Lesser competition isn't his issue. How can you guard the best players, but afraid to go at one?

Sending to the g might make him quit the sport.


because his defensive skill set is clearly way ahead of his offensive skillset??

i think your exaggerating a little bit, the kid made it to the NBA he isn't a little scared boy in a corner...he's a development piece that needs reps.

It's all mental with Frank. he said it himself that he's always thinking. But right now his confidence is shot. that's not what the g-league is for,


i dont disagree with you thats its mostly if not all mental...but he's a very raw offensive player. Having a couple 30 minute performances with accumulated stats might be what he needs.

thats what saikam and murray needed. Being able to shoot without the a ton of people watching and the game on TV...who knows if it will work but I don't know how sitting on the bench helps confidence. Like a lot of people say who knows what will and wont help him...but we wont know if we don't find out....
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#319 » by cuyankees » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:42 am

fatalogic wrote:Like most things I think Knicks Film schoo had a pretty good take on it. Perhaps when Fiz say struggling he means in approach not scoring. If he bases his rotations on approach then his rotations make sense to me. Can’t tell me he is trying to win with one of the worst defensive units in the league.

The thing most people seem to be ignoring is that with David Fizdale, results are only part of the equation. For him, approach seems to matter just as much.

In no uncertain terms, Frank has been horrible on the offensive end this year, and that is maybe not a strong enough word to describe his performance. Of the 159 players this season with a 16 usage rate or higher who’ve played at least 10 games and 20 minutes a night, Ntilikina’s 43.6 true shooting percentage ranks dead last. Yet that didn’t stop Fizdale from giving him another bite at the apple after a few games on the bench earlier this month.

Had Frank maintained the approach he had in those first three games, regardless of the results, he likely would have been able to give his mom a Merry Christmas. That wasn’t the case though. We know Frank is doing what the coaching staff asks when he drives the lane and shoots without hesitation. In his two outbursts against Charlotte and Cleveland, Ntilikina had seven and nine drives, respectively, to go with 24 total shots. In the five games after that, he averaged only 5.2 drives and 5.6 field goal attempts.

That might not seem like a drastic enough difference to warrant a seat back on the bench, but when you factor in the results – 21% shooting over those five games – yeah, it kind of does.

https://knicksfilmschool.com/2018/12/26/where-were-at-with-frank-ntilikina/

Interesting stat w the drives per game and obviously that translates to aggression that Fiz wants to see
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Re: Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank 

Post#320 » by Thugger HBC » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:46 am

mpharris36 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
because his defensive skill set is clearly way ahead of his offensive skillset??

i think your exaggerating a little bit, the kid made it to the NBA he isn't a little scared boy in a corner...he's a development piece that needs reps.

It's all mental with Frank. he said it himself that he's always thinking. But right now his confidence is shot. that's not what the g-league is for,


thats not what saikam and murray said. Being able to shoot without the a ton of people watching and the game on TV...who knows if it will work but I don't know how sitting on the bench helps confidence. Like a lot of people say who knows what will and wont help him...but we wont know if we don't find out....

Have you thought that maybe the team knows? Unless you believe you see Frank more than they do.
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