Dame traded to the Bucks!

[Effigy]

All I know is that if I were Lillard, this is EXACTLY the story I’d be making public in order to stay “Mr. Loyal” with a franchise that will make up a huge part of my legacy.

I’ll wait until Cronin says Lillard wanted to rescind his request before I give Lillard the benefit of the doubt.

Eh, I don't know how well that would go for him. 'I wanted to rescind my request, but Brian Cronin said I couldn't" I mean, he didn't need Cronin's permission to make the request. All he had to do was go on social media and apologize and rescind the request and say he wants to remain a Blazer and looks forward to the season with Scoot and the rest of the team.

Cronin can say all he wants, but if he did THAT, it would have been harder to trade Dame.

[zzaj]

All I know is that if I were Lillard, this is EXACTLY the story I’d be making public in order to stay “Mr. Loyal” with a franchise that will make up a huge part of my legacy.

I’ll wait until Cronin says Lillard wanted to rescind his request before I give Lillard the benefit of the doubt.

Eh, I don't know how well that would go for him. 'I wanted to rescind my request, but Brian Cronin said I couldn't" I mean, he didn't need Cronin's permission to make the request. All he had to do was go on social media and apologize and rescind the request and say he wants to remain a Blazer and looks forward to the season with Scoot and the rest of the team.

Cronin can say all he wants, but if he did THAT, it would have been harder to trade Dame.

Yeah, the last sentence is part B of my point. I don't believe that Lillard really wanted to stay a Blazer and retire here. I guess reports are coming out now that he only wanted to come back to give Cronin more time to get the trade he wanted done--which makes a lot of sense. I think he knew that the Blazers were rebuilding and that they were not going to give him what he has always wanted--a chance to win.

And FWIW, I don't BLAME Lillard...I'm not trying to bash him. He's my favorite Blazer of all time, and I would want the same exact things if I was in his shoes. I just feel like the spin of "he was going to come back and stay with the team until retirement because he's so loyal" is wrong.

The way I see it in a nutshell (Lillard's injury and Grant's contract complicate things):
1) Cronin has earnestly tried to put something around Lillard, but couldn't because Olshey is a bafoon.
2) Lillard gave Cronin the benefit of the doubt, but felt his clock ticking.
3) Come this years draft, Cronin saw the opportunity to take the next Blazer generation's PG...and noted LIllard's clock ticking.
4) The whole thing came to a head at a poor time during the summer.
5) Lillard decides Miami is the place for multiple reasons--probably because they have a culture of winning, they just came close to rings, he has player friends there, sees it as a fit, it's in a tax-free state, and weather.
6) Lillard talks to his agent and Cronin saying he wants to go to Miami and ONLY Miami.
7) Goodwin tells this to Miami and skeletor licks his chops.

...the rest is anyones guess (and yes, 1-7 are still a total guess), but my hunch is that the whole thing is much less sinister than the media and fans have made it out to be.

[monopoman]

I can see a faction of the Blazers management also wanting to give the keys to the franchise to Scoot, Scoot seems like he is going to be a guy people can easily root for that could be great.

If you want to jumpstart the development process you put Scoot out on day 1 as the starting PG without question. Part of why Dame got so good so quickly was he was given the starting PG position on day 1.

We all know even if Dame was happy being here long term it would just slow Scoot's development in some aspects because Dame would start until he declines or retires.

[Capn'O]

The team wanted to move on from Lillard but didn't want to initiate. Their transactions screamed it even before Scoot but Dame was the first to acknowledge the elephant in the room and he made a rash demand.

Moving on was the right move but a cowardly way to go about it. The team should have initiated but as many have said, emotions were high and that likely clouded decision making.

This is a very fair read on the situation imo.

Sean Highkin is a fantastic no-bias Blazers best reporter, he tweeted he’s going to write his story about what happened, but in his tweet about it, he said “I know both parties (Cronin and Dame) really well, and the reality is both could of handled things better.”

So goes back to your point exactly imo. Emotions were high, Cronin needed to sack up and just trade Dame when they had clearly made the choice to rebuild vs doing those CLEARLY half assed press conferences about how he “really thinks Dame can play with Scoot and the young guys…” or that “we want to go all in with Dame”. They knew before draft night that they couldn’t get an all-in deal, so Cronin needed to go to Dame at that point and initiate the conversation and tell him, “look Dame, we tried, there’s nothing out there that makes sense, this is the direction we have to go and we think it’s best we move you somewhere where you can win”.

Meanwhile, Dame’s handling of the situation and the “Miami only” bs, plus his agent making bafflingly stupid comments to the media, just made the situation worse.

Exactly, and you have the details much firmer than I do.

Bottom line, these two parties had a fantastic 11 year relationship but the breakup was messy. My dog in this fight is I don't want to see Portland turn on Dame due to the breakup. I watched New York go through a strikingly similar situation with Ewing years back - legendary player, over a decade of commitment, loyal to a fault, team was clearly going in a different direction, Ewing had to be the one to initiate the trade request, and the City briefly turned on him. Both parties - fans and Pat - almost immediately regretted any animosity they felt and it was a sheepish relationship up until his jersey retirement where Pat said frankly "we've had our ups and our downs" (standing ovation) and that buried the hatchet. With that, Dame was much more present in the community here than Pat ever was. I just hope Portland can understand where he came from and appreciate the man right from the get go. Both he and the Blazers are in a better position to move forward than they were a week ago.

[monopoman]

I am also seeing some say that Cronin never tried to make a move to win now with Dame I don't think this is true. Cronin looked into options with the #3 pick and other assets to make a move for a star win now player no other team was interested.

Now Dame is right the team was rebuilding but it was partly due to necessity as much as desire. The offers Cronin was getting were either a clear overpay or they were not even willing to negotiate. I think the only player he might have been able to get is OG but Masai wanted like 3 unprotected 1st round picks and a great PG or SG like Simons or Scoot.

OG is good but he sure as **** isn't worth that even if he would make a great addition to a Dame led Blazers team.

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

so Cronin needed to go to Dame at that point and initiate the conversation and tell him, “look Dame, we tried, there’s nothing out there that makes sense, this is the direction we have to go and we think it’s best we move you somewhere where you can win”.

Meanwhile, Dame’s handling of the situation and the “Miami only” bs, plus his agent making bafflingly stupid comments to the media, just made the situation worse.

It wouldn't have mattered, because in the end, after Cronin having your quoted talk with Dame, Cronin wanted to make it messy either way, because he wanted to fully control the trade talks. He had been acting sneaky and deceptive the entire time. And once he got his chance to trade Dame, he refused any chance of fixing the situation. Cronin is dishonest and cutthroat. You can't operate like that and maintain good relationships.


This isn't a competent, well run organization, like the Lakers, Spurs, Heat, etc.... for example, the Shaq trade in 2004. The Lakers and Shaq agreed to finally part ways, and Shaq called Jerry Buss (then owner) and told him "Send me to Miami then"... Jerry Buss said "Okay", picked up the phone and called Miami, and they worked out the best deal in good faith negotiations, sent Shaq to Miami, got a fair deal, and everyone moved on without burning bridges. Was it the absolute best possible return? Probably not, but Jerry Buss and the Lakers know there are more important things to consider, and any little extra return is not worth the destroyed relationships and bad karma.


Cronin isn't built like that. Cronin wanted to make it messy, -no matter what-, because :

- he wants to open trade talks,
- he will lie about anything and everything to manipulate an outcome,
- and he doesn't give a **** what Dame wants.


That's the difference between how some franchises work.... and apparently how Portland works. Lying, taking advantage of, and manipulating people at every turn is not a recipe for success.


You look at how Dame played hardball with the trade situation.... but did you stop to think why he did that? Perhaps he knew what he was dealing with (Cronin)... and in the end, did Cronin graciously send Dame to Miami and make Dame look bad for playing hardball? Nope.. in the end, Cronin proved Dame exactly right... exposing Cronin for being unreasonable, dishonest, petty, etc...

[wco81]

I’ll also add, Cronin not having the stones to just face reality and making the player demand this trade is why I think he’s a bad GM. I think he’s going to be as bad as Olshey when it comes to overvaluing “his guys”.

Maybe as a first-time GM, he didn't want to seem disrespectful to one of the greatest players in the history of the franchise.

He had to try to make decisions for the best interests of the franchise, which probably meant moving on from Lillard.

But he didn't want to appear like he pushed Dame out the door?

[Wizenheimer]

I know it seems to be a thing to try and find villains and assign 100% of the blame to them.

Other than Dame's agent, and maybe Pat Riley, there aren't any villains in this story. What there is is a GM who spent a year straddling a fence between rebuilding and trying to contend around an aging superstar (while secretly wanting to hop over the fence into a full rebuild). And who is working on mastering the art of GM double-speak, and pretty obviously practiced that art with the aging superstar

and of course there's the aging superstar who felt misled and betrayed by the double-speak to the point he asked to be traded from a place he didn't really want to leave, and trusted an agent who is a snake, who in turn trashed most of the leverage the double-speaking GM had...and that pissed of the GM big-time (and by the way, double-speak is a valuable skill in a GM)

By mid July this situation was not salvageable. I've been saying here since that time that the Blazer FO would never trade Dame to Miami...they were that monumentally pissed off about the actions of Dame's agent, Dame, and Pat Riley. It was a river of no return (I got a bargain on metaphors at the hyperbole store)

Cronin wasn't straight with Dame and Dame didn't manage his agent well at all. Both screwed up and both are responsible for the divorce and how messy it got
*******************************************************************

I will say this about Dame: he's intelligent and savvy. I am having a little difficulty buying that he was naive about several things here.

* Like the reality that a GM might not give him the straight scoop;
* that circumstances can radically change after a lottery and draft: Dame saw 12 drafts in his 11 seasons;
* that the actions of his agent didn't undercut the Blazer's leverage which torpedoed Dame's chances of landing in Miami
* that the situation was to the point he wouldn't be able to walk it back

[Wizenheimer]

I’ll also add, Cronin not having the stones to just face reality and making the player demand this trade is why I think he’s a bad GM. I think he’s going to be as bad as Olshey when it comes to overvaluing “his guys”.

it already appears he's doing that with Ant. I read that it was Cronin who first brought Olshey's attention to Ant

[Effigy]

All I know is that if I were Lillard, this is EXACTLY the story I’d be making public in order to stay “Mr. Loyal” with a franchise that will make up a huge part of my legacy.

I’ll wait until Cronin says Lillard wanted to rescind his request before I give Lillard the benefit of the doubt.

Eh, I don't know how well that would go for him. 'I wanted to rescind my request, but Brian Cronin said I couldn't" I mean, he didn't need Cronin's permission to make the request. All he had to do was go on social media and apologize and rescind the request and say he wants to remain a Blazer and looks forward to the season with Scoot and the rest of the team.

Cronin can say all he wants, but if he did THAT, it would have been harder to trade Dame.

Yeah, the last sentence is part B of my point. I don't believe that Lillard really wanted to stay a Blazer and retire here. I guess reports are coming out now that he only wanted to come back to give Cronin more time to get the trade he wanted done--which makes a lot of sense. I think he knew that the Blazers were rebuilding and that they were not going to give him what he has always wanted--a chance to win.

And FWIW, I don't BLAME Lillard...I'm not trying to bash him. He's my favorite Blazer of all time, and I would want the same exact things if I was in his shoes. I just feel like the spin of "he was going to come back and stay with the team until retirement because he's so loyal" is wrong.

The way I see it in a nutshell (Lillard's injury and Grant's contract complicate things):
1) Cronin has earnestly tried to put something around Lillard, but couldn't because Olshey is a bafoon.
2) Lillard gave Cronin the benefit of the doubt, but felt his clock ticking.
3) Come this years draft, Cronin saw the opportunity to take the next Blazer generation's PG...and noted LIllard's clock ticking.
4) The whole thing came to a head at a poor time during the summer.
5) Lillard decides Miami is the place for multiple reasons--probably because they have a culture of winning, they just came close to rings, he has player friends there, sees it as a fit, it's in a tax-free state, and weather.
6) Lillard talks to his agent and Cronin saying he wants to go to Miami and ONLY Miami.
7) Goodwin tells this to Miami and skeletor licks his chops.

...the rest is anyones guess (and yes, 1-7 are still a total guess), but my hunch is that the whole thing is much less sinister than the media and fans have made it out to be.

I don't blame Lillard either, or at least, I don't have any problem with him wanting out. He gave us 11 great seasons and is 33 and we have to rebuild. He didn't pull an Anthony Davis and ask out when he was 25 and there was still plenty of time. I think if a player wants to move on and they're approaching their mid 30's, and you're nowhere near ready to contend, the team SHOULD try to help them move on to a better situation.

The only thing is he should have given us a list of places he'd be willing to go at the beginning and not tried to strongarm us into one team. Ironically he might have gone to Miami if he'd done that. If he said 'these are the places I'd accept a trade, if it's at all possible Miami is my top choice and I'd really appreciate it' THEN if the offers are close, Cronin might feel good about sending him to Miami. And since Miami would know there's competition, their offer would be better.


I kind of wonder if part of us not sending him to Miami, or really having any communication with them was to avoid letting him set the precedent of getting to go to only one team that he chose (though again, Davis kind of did that exact same thing when he was 25). It really seems like from what we are hearing, that a Miami offer just wasn't going to be considered unless they overpaid.

[Effigy]

I’ll also add, Cronin not having the stones to just face reality and making the player demand this trade is why I think he’s a bad GM. I think he’s going to be as bad as Olshey when it comes to overvaluing “his guys”.

it already appears he's doing that with Ant. I read that it was Cronin who first brought Olshey's attention to Ant

We'll see, but honestly what are our choices for Ant? I'd place his value at about Jordan Poole's. Is that the return you'd want for him? We need to sit him down and tell him that he is our sixth man. The problem is, he's better than Scoot and Sharpe right now, so he might resist that, but ultimately, that's where his future is almost certainly, both with us, or anyone else.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Can't help but enjoy reading again those posts of Miami fans who said in summer "Duncan and Lowry, saves Portland money, thats the current value of now 33 year old Dame."

it was a terrible trade for POR, read reactions online from neutral sources lol

Ayton sucks, he's 25 in his prime and even his drafting team doesnt want him

Jrue is good but he's 33. He won't get you much from a contender, he at the end of his career.

Contenders willing to pay for old guards if they are superstars that get them over the hump (like Miami).... sure as hell won't overpay for someone who doesn't do that.

And which rebuilding team wants to pay that much for an old guard who doesn't fit in their long term plans?

??

ayton and herro are a wash on value except that ayton at least plays a position of need and they could deal nurk for him too
the picks and two swaps they got from the bucks are worth at least 6 south beach picks

think of jrue as kind of the bonus they got for not being imbeciles and taking your offer

[Shem]

Heat fans are still crying on Twitter/X today. And I don't want them to stop either. Too much fun to read. Especially since they act like they're victims and the NBA is out to get them. I'm also reminded that the ones doing that are paying Elon Musk $8/month of their blue check marks. That's all I need to know.

[Shem]

Read on Twitter

[Shem]

A different Heat nation account. Same sort of message. They're the victims.

Read on Twitter

[Jadoogar]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10091305-inside-the-messy-divorce-between-damian-lillard-and-portland-trail-blazers

In late August, Goodwin suggested to Cronin that he meet with Lillard to mend the relationship in case his client were to return to the team. Cronin agreed, and they met at Lillard's Portland-area mansion on Sept. 5. It was the first time the two had spoken in quite some time.

With a little less than a month away from training camp opening, the two sat in the entertainment center of Lillard's home and the meeting lasted about an hour.

Lillard expressed his disappointment with how his situation had been handled, citing his steadfast commitment to the organization over the years. He questioned why there was no dialogue with Miami and expressed how it would be disheartening to be sent somewhere against his wishes.

---- snip... ----


In the Sept. 5 meeting, Cronin conveyed that if he was forced to do a deal with Miami, he had every intention of going after every attractable asset. Lillard knew then he was unlikely to end up in Miami.


Lillard then said if a deal couldn't be worked out with the Heat, he would prefer to rescind his trade request and return to the Trail Blazers.

Cronin's response to the seven-time All-Star was that there was no coming back.

Lillard was shocked, sources said. He said it was discouraging to hear he couldn't return, but added that he didn't want to be somewhere he wasn't wanted, and he ended the meeting.

This is stupid, you can't take back a trade request and pretend it never happened.

[PDXKnight]

Read on Twitter

Gotta love salty miami fans, and its pretty funny isn't it, you sign a contract and someone might expect you to fulfill it.

[PDXKnight]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10091305-inside-the-messy-divorce-between-damian-lillard-and-portland-trail-blazers

In late August, Goodwin suggested to Cronin that he meet with Lillard to mend the relationship in case his client were to return to the team. Cronin agreed, and they met at Lillard's Portland-area mansion on Sept. 5. It was the first time the two had spoken in quite some time.

With a little less than a month away from training camp opening, the two sat in the entertainment center of Lillard's home and the meeting lasted about an hour.

Lillard expressed his disappointment with how his situation had been handled, citing his steadfast commitment to the organization over the years. He questioned why there was no dialogue with Miami and expressed how it would be disheartening to be sent somewhere against his wishes.

---- snip... ----


In the Sept. 5 meeting, Cronin conveyed that if he was forced to do a deal with Miami, he had every intention of going after every attractable asset. Lillard knew then he was unlikely to end up in Miami.


Lillard then said if a deal couldn't be worked out with the Heat, he would prefer to rescind his trade request and return to the Trail Blazers.

Cronin's response to the seven-time All-Star was that there was no coming back.

Lillard was shocked, sources said. He said it was discouraging to hear he couldn't return, but added that he didn't want to be somewhere he wasn't wanted, and he ended the meeting.

This is stupid, you can't take back a trade request and pretend it never happened.

Exactly, words count

[zzaj]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10091305-inside-the-messy-divorce-between-damian-lillard-and-portland-trail-blazers

In late August, Goodwin suggested to Cronin that he meet with Lillard to mend the relationship in case his client were to return to the team. Cronin agreed, and they met at Lillard's Portland-area mansion on Sept. 5. It was the first time the two had spoken in quite some time.

With a little less than a month away from training camp opening, the two sat in the entertainment center of Lillard's home and the meeting lasted about an hour.

Lillard expressed his disappointment with how his situation had been handled, citing his steadfast commitment to the organization over the years. He questioned why there was no dialogue with Miami and expressed how it would be disheartening to be sent somewhere against his wishes.

---- snip... ----


In the Sept. 5 meeting, Cronin conveyed that if he was forced to do a deal with Miami, he had every intention of going after every attractable asset. Lillard knew then he was unlikely to end up in Miami.


Lillard then said if a deal couldn't be worked out with the Heat, he would prefer to rescind his trade request and return to the Trail Blazers.

Cronin's response to the seven-time All-Star was that there was no coming back.

Lillard was shocked, sources said. He said it was discouraging to hear he couldn't return, but added that he didn't want to be somewhere he wasn't wanted, and he ended the meeting.

This is stupid, you can't take back a trade request and pretend it never happened.

And the second reason this line of thinking is stupid...given the trade, BOTH PARTIES ARE HAPPIER. Including the guy who according to this BS reporting was "shocked".

Cronin is happy that he gets to rebuild. Lillard is happy he gets to contend. The casual fan is happy that they get to see an awesome basketball pairing. Shoot, I'd bet Chauncey is even a bit happy he gets to actually implement his scheme without having to placate and cover Lillard's defense.

The only people who are not happy are the Miami Heat and their fans.

[Wizenheimer]

The only people who are not happy are the Miami Heat and their fans.

there IS justice in the world!