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Bulls Trade Rumors Only

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#301 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:34 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:Unless I'm missing something, Pistons are good at drafting, they've made a bunch of good picks with the exception of Killian Hayes.

Cade, Duren, Ivey, Stewart, Ausar, etc. were all good picks and are good young building blocks.


When you are on track for like 10 wins you are terrible. They aren’t trying to lose either. They just suck. That current roster will never amount to anything. Bunch of busts. I don’t care how young they are. Front office grade F.
I'm with you here. I will add that "They have a few great prospects" almost always translates to "they will end up with 1 all-star or fringe all-star"

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#302 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:36 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
gf2020hotmail wrote:I was talking about room under the tax for Drummond. I believe we will have his early bird right and/or the MLE to resign him if wanted, both of which aren't really impacted by the cap. In terms of the luxury tax, Pat's cap hold is pretty irrelevant unless you think there's a real chance that his salary will threaten that, which doesn't seem likely.


At this rate, you'd have to think that the qualifying offer is a real possibility for Pat.


Some bad team that can’t attract good free agents will take a chance and offer more than that. Possibly significantly more. I’m not sure having to possibly match $20 million is better than giving him $16 or $17 million up front.
If someone offers more than 10 mil, let him walk.

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#303 » by Guru » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:38 pm

Guru wrote:
nomorezorro wrote:
Guru wrote:
Read on Twitter


man as much as i want us to sell, it is hard to look at some of these deals and think "we need to get in on this market!"


Exactly


Now

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#304 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:39 pm

boozapalooza wrote:KC says we want to remain competitive and to keep an eye on Philly as our trade partner today. Probably for Drummond but Demar and Caruso make sense there too.

I dont really love what Philly has to offer but their FRP for Drummond would be nice
A FRP doesn't keep the Bulls competitive this season. Why people will not listen to what the front office says is curious.

"We want to see what the team looks like without Zach". They are 32-19, although that wasn't completely without him.

"We will remain competitive THIS season and we think we can move up in the standings"

Whether you agree or not, they aren't hiding anything.

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#305 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:40 pm

jump wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Guru wrote:
They have won 60% of their games in the last few months.


Neat. But you don't just get to throw out the miserable start to the season. As it stands, the Bulls are bound for the play-in and their likely best outcome is a first round exit if they even make the playoffs. I just can't get too worked up about going 19-13.


What you are ignoring is that the 19-13 version is a better more competitive team and could go further in the playoffs. It can be argued that the current iteration is worth keeping if the trade offers are mediocre. Which they seem to have been.


Well, this appears to be the crux of our disagreement. I do not think it is possible that the current iteration of this team can make it out of the first round despite the recently improved play (mostly against bad teams, but with some nice wins as well).
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#306 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:41 pm

nomorezorro wrote:
Guru wrote:
Read on Twitter


man as much as i want us to sell, it is hard to look at some of these deals and think "we need to get in on this market!"


Yeah, this.

IMO, the right thing here is to try to sell re: DeMar and maybe Drummond. But *if* the Bulls are committed to what I think is a bad plan, which is trying to move up in the rankings now, then freaking do something in furtherance of that goal.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#307 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:41 pm

Guru wrote:All the lets trade Pat guys are mad we traded Wendell Carter
Not me.

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#308 » by BahamaBull » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:43 pm

Love me some Ochai. Raps are doing something...Unlike this **** franchise...I hate you MJ!! Its all your fault...I wished i never lived in the 90s. Sucks being a Bulls fan. :banghead:
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#309 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:43 pm

MGB8 wrote:
eierluke wrote:Interesting discussion, Patrick Williams is indeed the guy I'd try to trade immediately.

Yes he has improved, but is he a "building block" (= someone who'll be one of the top 3 players on a team)?
I doubt, to me he'd be a borderlione starter on a good team, but no one who'd be able to carry a good team anytime.
Someone will offer him more than the Qualifying offer and then we do have a problem. Our problem will be that he's not the missing puzzle piece, sine with Coby we do have just one puzzle piece in place at best and it wouldn't be a good idea to throw any upcoming cap flexibility out of the window just to not lose a role player.

Unfortunately he got drafted by AKME so they will not trade him in order not to lose face ...


The issue is that, kind of like Lauri, the team could easily come to regret trading Pat. He is not a superstar and it doesn’t look like he will ever be. But could, based on slow but steady progression, he become an absolutely elite defensive “glue guy,” along the lines of OG (or Deng)? I would put the chances of that at over 25% just based on what he has already shown.

He is a 2 way player in that he can both defend (with position defense versatility), can shoot (though clearly not a high volume gunner) and can handle, drive and pass some. On the latter items, while right now he is, at best, a 4th option on a good team - you could easily see his handle and skills progress to where he is a solid 3rd option and borderline but not quite 2nd option on a good team (a la OG). If that happens, that is a critical player for pretty much any team. The issue with Pat is energy level (and consistency of energy level) and assertiveness / aggressiveness.
That's what rookie contracts are for. You don't pay a guy based on what he might become when he hasn't shown any sign of becoming it during his rookie contract.

Laurie showed way more promise.

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#310 » by JimmyButler21 » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:45 pm

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#311 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:49 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
Guru wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Neat. But you don't just get to throw out the miserable start to the season. As it stands, the Bulls are bound for the play-in and their likely best outcome is a first round exit if they even make the playoffs. I just can't get too worked up about going 19-13.


60% seems pretty competitive.



The Bulls are 24-27. They have not won 60% of their games. We don't just get to pretend the beginning of the season didn't occur. Even with the recent improved play, the Bulls are basically bum-slaying. They have a good record against bad teams and a bad record against good teams. There is zero reason to believe this team, as currently constructed, is going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm enjoying the Coby White experience as much as anyone else, but pretending this team is actually good is pretty silly.
But you get to pretend the last 32 games (a majority of the season) didn't happen?

I'm not saying it should change your mind. But if you are debating it, you should probably explain why the last 32 games means less than the first 19 games.

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#312 » by DuckIII » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:50 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
Guru wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Neat. But you don't just get to throw out the miserable start to the season. As it stands, the Bulls are bound for the play-in and their likely best outcome is a first round exit if they even make the playoffs. I just can't get too worked up about going 19-13.


60% seems pretty competitive.



The Bulls are 24-27. They have not won 60% of their games. We don't just get to pretend the beginning of the season didn't occur. Even with the recent improved play, the Bulls are basically bum-slaying. They have a good record against bad teams and a bad record against good teams. There is zero reason to believe this team, as currently constructed, is going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm enjoying the Coby White experience as much as anyone else, but pretending this team is actually good is pretty silly.


When it comes to evaluating the "competitiveness" of their team some fans, and evidently AK, deem postseason play a sufficient indicator of a team that is either already there or headed in the right direction. I don't understand why, but the phenomenon remains despite:

1. In the NBA it is virtual requirement to have at least one legitimate superstar (top 10-ish depending on other factors) to be a contender. We have zero. And despite how wonderful Coby's development is, with it being clear he is an important part of this team's future, he is not that type of player. Nor is any other young player.

2. The only three ways to get such a player is free agency, trade and the draft. We have no capspace, one of the lamest if not the lamest war chest in the NBA for effecting major trades for elite talent, and we're too good for a high lottery pick and don't even have all of our own future picks locked up.

3. 20 OUT OF 30 TEAMS REACH POSTSEASON PLAY. It is not, standing alone, an indicator of anything relevant to actual contention.

4. Regular season wins are isolated affairs. In the playoffs you need a dynamic and versatile roster that can adapt and adjust in context with playing the same team over and over and over in response to the adjustments your opponent makes. We have one of the most one-note, least offensively and defensively versatile rosters in the NBA.

5. 2 of our "core" players are old. The third has a chronic injury history, is a complimentary star not a cornerstone even at his best, and both he and the organization want a divorce anyway which neither can have at this point due to a season ending surgery.

Not that this will convince anyone who just disregards all of this and tries to convince themselves we are in a good spot, but the evidence is overwhelming that we are in just about the least desirable situation an NBA team can find itself in.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#313 » by ch434355 » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:51 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Guru wrote:
60% seems pretty competitive.



The Bulls are 24-27. They have not won 60% of their games. We don't just get to pretend the beginning of the season didn't occur. Even with the recent improved play, the Bulls are basically bum-slaying. They have a good record against bad teams and a bad record against good teams. There is zero reason to believe this team, as currently constructed, is going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm enjoying the Coby White experience as much as anyone else, but pretending this team is actually good is pretty silly.
But you get to pretend the last 32 games (a majority of the season) didn't happen?

I'm not saying it should change your mind. But if you are debating it, you should probably explain why the last 32 games means less than the first 19 games.

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What? He didn't pretend the last 32 didn't happen, or that they mean less. YOU guys are pretending the games before that didn't matter.

They're 24-27. They all count exactly the same.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#314 » by Stratmaster » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:53 pm

ch434355 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:

The Bulls are 24-27. They have not won 60% of their games. We don't just get to pretend the beginning of the season didn't occur. Even with the recent improved play, the Bulls are basically bum-slaying. They have a good record against bad teams and a bad record against good teams. There is zero reason to believe this team, as currently constructed, is going anywhere in the playoffs. I'm enjoying the Coby White experience as much as anyone else, but pretending this team is actually good is pretty silly.
But you get to pretend the last 32 games (a majority of the season) didn't happen?

I'm not saying it should change your mind. But if you are debating it, you should probably explain why the last 32 games means less than the first 19 games.

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What? He didn't pretend the last 32 didn't happen, or that they mean less. YOU guys are pretending the games before that didn't matter.

They're 24-27. They all count exactly the same.
Do they? Would you rather have a team that gets in the playoffs who started the season 10-20 but ended it 22-8? Or the other way around?

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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#315 » by ch434355 » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:53 pm

I seriously can't believe we're debating on keeping this things together over a mild hot streak
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#316 » by burlydee » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:54 pm

Guru wrote:Over the past month of bulls games I haven't seen a player on another team that could score as smoothly as DDR other than Durant in that final 2 quarters of that game. That's meaningful.


Watch more basketball.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#317 » by ch434355 » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:55 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
ch434355 wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:But you get to pretend the last 32 games (a majority of the season) didn't happen?

I'm not saying it should change your mind. But if you are debating it, you should probably explain why the last 32 games means less than the first 19 games.

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What? He didn't pretend the last 32 didn't happen, or that they mean less. YOU guys are pretending the games before that didn't matter.

They're 24-27. They all count exactly the same.
Do they? Would you rather have a team that gets in the playoffs who started the season 10-20 but ended it 22-8? Or the other way around?

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It makes no difference. And it's moot anyways, because you're delusional if you think this team is doing anything whatsoever in the playoffs.

Seriously, I can't believe we're still debating about this team that has been broken for multiple seasons now.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#318 » by burlydee » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:55 pm

ch434355 wrote:I seriously can't believe we're debating on keeping this things together over a mild hot streak


It's not even a hot streak. Bulls are 5-5 over there last 10. Everyone is confused by this franchise.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#319 » by ChettheJet » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:55 pm

At this point with there not being very many offers for good, not great, players, so many teams just hanging on to their larger contract guys, expiring or not, makes me think AKME are not seeing how what they could get today is good enough to not just wait until the summer. It doesn't seem like the teams with the extra picks in the next 2 years are willing to move them for what's available. The Bulls aren't cleaning house to tank, so taking a low return for Drummond, Caruso and DeRozan just to make trades and appease a few shortsighted internet experts is the dumbest route.

I are starting to believe that Bulls had a plan, resigning Zach then Vuc, extending Coby, not rushing Williams and all that, having DeRozan be a FA. But the league changed somewhat and so many teams piled up picks and so many teams dealt the max that they could, so new CBA saw a lot of big names just resign with their teams and what shapes up now is in opposition to the plan AKME were aiming for. caught flat footed by the way things work out today.

Now AKME may have mapped out a strategy that during the trading period and prior to the draft that could include helping Drummond with a S&T, maybe teams that like Caruso are waiting for some of their contracts to run out or cut the guarantee when he is an expiring. In both cases it could well be that teams see those 2 as their need but want to get them for one of two full seasons and not just a playoff run this year.

When it comes to Patrick, I have no problem believing that there are teams who have conclude that they need a 3/4 who is a very good 1-4 defender, shoots a high % of threes, has shown a mid range game, they have a very good starting back court maybe even a solid pair of reserves and most importantly look for someone has the potential to improve. (No I'm not going on a deep scouting trip to identify that team for you) That team is going to offer Pat $80M/4 because they've scouted him with the Bulls, they have seen what he is capable of, charted how few touches he gets with Lavine and DeRozan controlling the ball so much of the time, that the Bulls have not had a genuine PG in his 4 years. They think he's a piece that fits in with what they have and need.

I don't think AKME have the guts to see what they've seen and make the necessary moves to get a real PF, put Patrick at the SF and turn him loose.
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Re: Bulls Trade Rumors Only 

Post#320 » by Guru » Thu Feb 8, 2024 3:55 pm

burlydee wrote:
Guru wrote:Over the past month of bulls games I haven't seen a player on another team that could score as smoothly as DDR other than Durant in that final 2 quarters of that game. That's meaningful.


Watch more basketball.


The league is terrible. Too much scoring and iso ball. Too many games. It's a terrible product with a juvenile immature fan base.

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