OT: PSU Sex Scandal and Cover-up

[dougthonus]

I guess where you and I differ is that I don't consider the Paterno part damning, and I'm waiting to see it get bad before calling it bad.

Right now, I'd label it as less than ideal with the potential to get bad. Though I realize this is not a popular or politically correct position to take.

I'm not far away from you. I've been getting reamed out on twitter largely for suggesting that the real person who I have a problem with is McQuery, and that it's a shame there is so much media on attention on Paterno because he's the biggest name involved.

I think it was good for the university to separate itself from Paterno. I also think Paterno should have done more [as he acknowledged himself], but it's sad that this story is largely about Paterno and not about Sandusky/McQuery. I think Paterno's lack of action was damning to a degree, but of all the names involved in the story his actions are the least damning of the group.

Sandusky is obviously public enemy #1.
Paterno's superiors had a legal obligation to report the incident and thus are public enemy #2 (IMO).
McQuery was the only one who could actually testify to anything, so he becomes public enemy #3.
Paterno comes in fourth in that chain in that he fulfilled his legal obligation to report the incident and also had no direct evidence he could offer to the police.

Obviously with something this bad you wish that just any one of the people who knew something did more with it, and Paterno is in that group, but if I'm rating wrongness on a scale of 1-10, Paterno gets the lowest score of the group and has gotten the most bad publicity of it.

[kyrv]

^^ Doug I'm surprised you are getting grief on twitter, or, since it's twitter, maybe I shouldn't be, but that's a very logical and common way to view it as far as I can tell. I also believe the coverage has expanded well past Paterno now that he stepped down, though he's still the big fish.

The one thing I'll note is that when we say Paterno's "superiors", Paterno was King there and Paterno set up Penn State's moral superiority. He had superiors on paper and administratively, but he was the man. A few years ago the president and someone else to fire Paterno and he said no thanks, I'm not fired. Reminds me of the Seinfeld where George's girlfriend keeps saying they aren't broken up.

I want to make a strange comment on McQueary, I think for him things have gotten way out of control. It did take a lot of cajones to go tell Paterno. Paterno and Sandusky were god-like figures on campus. He's now in protective custody - is the message we are sending, hmm, McQueary would have been better off saying nothing.

But as far as numbers 2 through 4 having followed the story I don't think one can come up with a bad order, and there are a lot more names that will be added. Tons more.

Last random babbling, Paterno said he wanted to talk about it, had several days of free time to do it, but instead hires an incredibly expensive lawyer. He knew in 98, he knows he did very wrong. He's also 84 and I think it's cool him and his wife are together and on their own, that's awesome. I'm not sure how much of a beatdown he should get at this point either.

[transplant]

^^ Doug I'm surprised you are getting grief on twitter, or, since it's twitter, maybe I shouldn't be, but that's a very logical and common way to view it as far as I can tell. I also believe the coverage has expanded well past Paterno now that he stepped down, though he's still the big fish.

The one thing I'll note is that when we say Paterno's "superiors", Paterno was King there and Paterno set up Penn State's moral superiority. He had superiors on paper and administratively, but he was the man. A few years ago the president and someone else to fire Paterno and he said no thanks, I'm not fired. Reminds me of the Seinfeld where George's girlfriend keeps saying they aren't broken up.

I want to make a strange comment on McQueary, I think for him things have gotten way out of control. It did take a lot of cajones to go tell Paterno. Paterno and Sandusky were god-like figures on campus. He's now in protective custody - is the message we are sending, hmm, McQueary would have been better off saying nothing.

But as far as numbers 2 through 4 having followed the story I don't think one can come up with a bad order, and there are a lot more names that will be added. Tons more.

Last random babbling, Paterno said he wanted to talk about it, had several days of free time to do it, but instead hires an incredibly expensive lawyer. He knew in 98, he knows he did very wrong. He's also 84 and I think it's cool him and his wife are together and on their own, that's awesome. I'm not sure how much of a beatdown he should get at this point either.

Joe Paterno was the most powerful man on that campus. He could have made it stop. He could have put a monster in a place where monsters don't permanently damage innocent children. He didn't.

Like many, I admired Paterno until this week. I can't ever recall my feelings about a public figure changing so much in such a short time.

[kyrv]

^^ Doug I'm surprised you are getting grief on twitter, or, since it's twitter, maybe I shouldn't be, but that's a very logical and common way to view it as far as I can tell. I also believe the coverage has expanded well past Paterno now that he stepped down, though he's still the big fish.

The one thing I'll note is that when we say Paterno's "superiors", Paterno was King there and Paterno set up Penn State's moral superiority. He had superiors on paper and administratively, but he was the man. A few years ago the president and someone else to fire Paterno and he said no thanks, I'm not fired. Reminds me of the Seinfeld where George's girlfriend keeps saying they aren't broken up.

I want to make a strange comment on McQueary, I think for him things have gotten way out of control. It did take a lot of cajones to go tell Paterno. Paterno and Sandusky were god-like figures on campus. He's now in protective custody - is the message we are sending, hmm, McQueary would have been better off saying nothing.

But as far as numbers 2 through 4 having followed the story I don't think one can come up with a bad order, and there are a lot more names that will be added. Tons more.

Last random babbling, Paterno said he wanted to talk about it, had several days of free time to do it, but instead hires an incredibly expensive lawyer. He knew in 98, he knows he did very wrong. He's also 84 and I think it's cool him and his wife are together and on their own, that's awesome. I'm not sure how much of a beatdown he should get at this point either.

Joe Paterno was the most powerful man on that campus. He could have made it stop. He could have put a monster in a place where monsters don't permanently damage innocent children. He didn't.

Like many, I admired Paterno until this week. I can't ever recall my feelings about a public figure changing so much in such a short time.

I can only think of OJ that something happened that at first I couldn't and wouldn't believe.

I do think some people don't realize that even in his mid 70's Paterno was by a huge margin THE most powerful person on that campus.

Not sure if you saw but earlier in the thread someone said that Paterno was just the football coach and couldn't get someone kicked off campus.

[transplant]

I can only think of OJ that something happened that at first I couldn't and wouldn't believe.

I do think some people don't realize that even in his mid 70's Paterno was by a huge margin THE most powerful person on that campus.

Not sure if you saw but earlier in the thread someone said that Paterno was just the football coach and couldn't get someone kicked off campus.

Just a football coach? Yeah, that's rich.

Paterno is not the monster, but he was the monster's PRIMARY ENABLER.

I've heard that Paterno wants to make a statement. There's a part of me that wants to hear it, but another part of me fears that his statement will infuriate me more.

**** Penn State football and **** Paterno's reputation. We're talking about f'ing games...GAMES! Supposedly responsible and admirable adults allowed an ever-increasing number of children to be raped and abused because of the overriding importance of f'ing GAMES!

My God, we are f'ed up.

[kyrv]

I didn't really care who won but I guess it is good that Penn State lost so we don't have to hear "this one was for JoePa".

[dougthonus]

Last random babbling, Paterno said he wanted to talk about it, had several days of free time to do it, but instead hires an incredibly expensive lawyer. He knew in 98, he knows he did very wrong. He's also 84 and I think it's cool him and his wife are together and on their own, that's awesome. I'm not sure how much of a beatdown he should get at this point either.

I have to admit, I haven't been following the coverage that closely recently, but what pointed to Paterno knowing in 98?

[dougthonus]

One interesting side note, I was talking to my brother (PSU alum) about this a bit, and he said Sandusky and Paterno weren't that close and had a rift when Paterno forced Sandusky out. I'm not sure if that's really true or not, but if true, I find it makes Paterno's actions all the more puzzling.

[DuckIII]

We're talking about f'ing games...GAMES! Supposedly responsible and admirable adults allowed an ever-increasing number of children to be raped and abused because of the overriding importance of f'ing GAMES!

Money, not games. Money. Not that this makes it better. But to say that it was about games ignores the overriding truth about NCAA athletics, which is that it is a multi-billion dollar system with one of the most powerful old boy networks on the planet.

[DuckIII]

Last random babbling, Paterno said he wanted to talk about it, had several days of free time to do it, but instead hires an incredibly expensive lawyer. He knew in 98, he knows he did very wrong. He's also 84 and I think it's cool him and his wife are together and on their own, that's awesome. I'm not sure how much of a beatdown he should get at this point either.

I have to admit, I haven't been following the coverage that closely recently, but what pointed to Paterno knowing in 98?

As I understand, it is a series of admittedly not unreasonable assumptions. But assumptions nonetheless.

(1) That because Sandusky was investigated in 1998, Paterno had to have known it;

(2) That Sandusky's firing/early retiring the next year was likely a result of the 1998 investigation; and

(3) Therefore, Paterno knew that McQueary wasn't lying in 2002 - or at minimum had a substantial basis to believe him such as the normal human instinct to believe your co-worker isn't a monster would be overridden.

Though these are reasonable, they remain assumptions that I won't personally make given the drastic consequences.

However, I am very impressed with dice's point about why, if Paterno did not believe McQueary, did McQueary stay on a Penn State?

[Tommy Udo 6]

Penn State is really a football program with a university attached..... (someone else said this recently but i cant remember who...)

[MAQ]

Penn State is really a football program with a university attached..... (someone else said this recently but i cant remember who...)

Seems like you could say that for the majority of the BCS schools though. It's not fair to the institution though. The vast majority of the kids that attend Penn State do so to go to school, and not to play football.

[Irregular]

Paterno supported the sick 2nd life charity, and gave the keys to Penn State to his sick friend, and did not report to the police.

He is accountable and should be in jail with the rest of them.

The Feds will find out soon enough.

[Irregular]

All you need to do is read the jury report and you will see how Paterno is involved.


Don't be scared

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?sec ... id=8421115

[dice]

I didn't really care who won but I guess it is good that Penn State lost so we don't have to hear "this one was for JoePa".

like sandusky's favorite companions, penn state came up short today

[kyrv]

Last random babbling, Paterno said he wanted to talk about it, had several days of free time to do it, but instead hires an incredibly expensive lawyer. He knew in 98, he knows he did very wrong. He's also 84 and I think it's cool him and his wife are together and on their own, that's awesome. I'm not sure how much of a beatdown he should get at this point either.

I have to admit, I haven't been following the coverage that closely recently, but what pointed to Paterno knowing in 98?

As I understand, it is a series of admittedly not unreasonable assumptions. But assumptions nonetheless.

(1) That because Sandusky was investigated in 1998, Paterno had to have known it;

(2) That Sandusky's firing/early retiring the next year was likely a result of the 1998 investigation; and

(3) Therefore, Paterno knew that McQueary wasn't lying in 2002 - or at minimum had a substantial basis to believe him such as the normal human instinct to believe your co-worker isn't a monster would be overridden.

Though these are reasonable, they remain assumptions that I won't personally make given the drastic consequences.

However, I am very impressed with dice's point about why, if Paterno did not believe McQueary, did McQueary stay on a Penn State?

I believe McQueary got a promotion a short time after the 2002 incident.

Also note Paterno's reaction in 2002. Or, lack of a shocking reaction. The DA in 98 decided not to prosecute for some reason. There are other witnesses who said nothing at all, so really not sure McQueary should be #2 on the list, or should I say, I'm not sure he will end up as #2 once we know more.

Duck fyi there have been people on in the past week who said they 'heard stories' about Sandusky. But it was a huge institutional cover up and the number of names who knew might end up shocking me.

I agree with you on the not games it's money for sure. Last year, that's one year, Paterno and PSU football made 50 million PROFIT. Also not sure if you caught this but Sandusky was representing Penn State in recruiting this past spring, when obviously Paterno knew. McQueary heads recruiting by the way, and I think he knew too. ;p

-------------------------

Obama had a little Bush in him today (giggety). He referred to the victims of the alleged crimes. So, they are definitely victims, but the crimes are alleged? So maybe they are victims but of no crimes?

[dice]

Obama had a little Bush in him today (giggety). He referred to the victims of the alleged crimes. So, they are definitely victims, but the crimes are alleged? So maybe they are victims but of no crimes?

i think that's how anyone would say it

[kyrv]

I didn't really care who won but I guess it is good that Penn State lost so we don't have to hear "this one was for JoePa".

like sandusky's favorite companions, penn state came up short today

Oh snap. You so went there.


Re the victim thing, I just thought it sounded funny. ;p

[BR0D1E86]

I'm not far away from you. I've been getting reamed out on twitter largely for suggesting that the real person who I have a problem with is McQuery, and that it's a shame there is so much media on attention on Paterno because he's the biggest name involved.

You shouldn't be getting grief. Paterno deserved to be fired, he should have done a lot more than he did.

But people calling McQuery a grad student acting like he was some naive youngster wandering in on something are way off base. He was a 28 year old man.

[BR0D1E86]

Q: What do you call an older woman who is into younger boys?

A: A cougar.



Q: What do you call an older man who is into younger boys?

A: A nittany lion.