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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI "Re-Building" Edition)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#321 » by The Effect » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:11 am

AddiFB wrote:
Bensational wrote:
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Caught up with #Magic CEO Alex Martins, you got to hear his message to fans, "will be a quick rebuild" watch at 6,11 on @WESH #Orlando #NBA


For a "quick" rebuild, I'd imagine that means that the Magic have their eye on some ready established talent, which they plan to chase as the franchise player/centerpiece of the team. someone available in the next free agency or two. you can't rely on landing a franchise caliber player through the draft in a short amount of time - too many variables. what you can rely on is targeting ready-now talent.

i think their plan will be heavily based upon loading up on efficiently paid talent as a supporting cast for 1-2 stars, and BPA talent in the draft, with enough financial flexibility to chase a franchise talent.

my gut tells me that James Harden is our man.


I've been feeling that Harden is our target for quite a while now. We won't be a "1 superstar - lots of role players" team this time around. Build around a solid team from top to bottom, filled with good players, instead of endorsement/fame chasers.


2 "problems" i have with that thought are
1 - I know everyone seems to think hes pretty much a rental, but i really think henny and the rest of the FO value Afflalo and wont just be giving up on him after a year (or even less according to some), so i dont see where harden would fit

2 - Isnt everything being mentioned about us having cap space in '14 to sign 2 Max players? Signing harden to a max deal would make that impossible
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#322 » by SpursFan4Life » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:22 am

If the Magic want a franchise player to build around that they dont have to draft but will stay loyal in a smaller market.....there is really just one that they should target but it may take 3 years and that is Kevin Love. Because guys like LeBron, Wade, Bosh, ect...ect....arent goning to want to move away from the spotlight. In my earlier post...I said the Magic would be wise to get Harrow, Pope, and Deing to go along with Harkless. What are they missing? A power foward in that line-up. Can you imagine Kevin Love there? Harrow/Pope/ZHarkless/Love/Deing...woulod be scary and young.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#323 » by mhi » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:22 am

rcklsscognition wrote:ESPN player rankings going up now. We have 6 Magic/Ex-Magic in the worst bunch.

#465- Liggins
#449- Harper
#427- O'Quinn
#426- Orton (not on Magic)
#423- Ish
#411- Eyenga

Do you think the FO values Harper and Liggins, or are we making them out to be better than they really are?


Although the list is premature and without much sample, I would say none of these players project to be a servicable starter in this league.

Not a bad thing either, just means high picks during the "rebuild".
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#324 » by SOUL » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:23 am

remember when Harper was Shard 2.0?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#325 » by AddiFB » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:25 am

SOUL wrote:remember when Harper was Shard 2.0?


Remember when Dwight was Tim Duncan 2.0 and not Shaq 2.0?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#326 » by ChildishGambino » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:29 am

SOUL wrote:remember when Harper was Shard 2.0?

if he played maybe he would be....
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#327 » by ADRajX » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:32 am

I'm very happy with the hiring of Parker... anything to help our scouting department, I'm for it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#328 » by Def Swami » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:34 am

rcklsscognition wrote:ESPN player rankings going up now. We have 6 Magic/Ex-Magic in the worst bunch.

#465- Liggins
#449- Harper
#427- O'Quinn
#426- Orton (not on Magic)
#423- Ish
#411- Eyenga

Do you think the FO values Harper and Liggins, or are we making them out to be better than they really are?

Liggins never impressed me. Works hard, plays hard, but doesn't seem to do anything well on offense. Or at least, I've never seen it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#329 » by RickB-Orlando » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:39 am

rcklsscognition wrote:
The Effect wrote:
recko321 wrote:Idk if this was posted but doesn't Chicago own charlottes 2012 unprotected 1st? TPE for rip + char 1st?

It has been mentioned and im almost positive its top 12 protected, but even still i dont think they will be willing to give that up just to get out of a contract that expires at the end of the year


Keep a bookmark on draft pick debt. It's got all owed picks and protections on it and is updated often.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/draft-pick-debt/

Chicago Bulls: Receives 2013 first-round pick (top-12 protected in 2013, top-10 in 2014, top-8 in 2015, unprotected in 2016) from the Charlotte Bobcats via the Tyrus Thomas trade on 2/18/10.

Unless I missed it, doesn't appear to have the Dwight trade effects on it yet.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#330 » by MagicFan41 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:43 am

Anybody think we could do something like Harrington for Boozer + Charlotte's 1st? That pick could be really high when it becomes unprotected in a few years and Chicago would get a boozer replacement at half the cost, and aren't hamstringed by his contract for another 3 years.

Just trying to think of some guys we could take off of other teams' hands (maybe using the TPE too) for potentially valuable picks....any contracts come to mind from teams that have decent picks to throw in for us?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#331 » by Bensational » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:45 am

alright, looking forward quickly, and not factoring in draft picks and hopes of landing a Shabazz/Noel/Wiggins/[insert college prospect name here] in the draft, what we can potentially do is:

Summer 2013:

without doing any trades, we will be in position for roughly $42M in committed salary.

Jameer - $8M
Afflalo - $7M
BBD - $6.5M
Turk - $6M
Harrington - $3M
Q - $3M
Vucevic - $1.8M
Harkless - $1.5M
Nicholson - $1.5M
KO - $1M
Rookies (2 1st round + 2 2nd round??)- $4 - 6M

that's a potential MAX contract offer to any of the following FA options/targets in 2013:

James Harden
Serge Ibaka
Al Jefferson
Evan Turner
Tyreke Evans
Paul George
Taj Gibson
Josh Smith
Paul Millsap
Chris Paul
Stephen Curry
Ty Lawson
Brandon Jennings
Monta Ellis
Andre Iguodala


personally, I see Harden as our man. i think that ultimately we'll orchestrate a s&t for him, using Afflalo as a more moderately priced option for OKC.


in the summer of 2014, without doing any trades, and with Harden as our 2013 FA acquisition, we'll have roughly $39M:

Harden - $13.5M
Jameer - $2M (guaranteed)
BBD - $6.5M
Harrington - $3M
Vucevic - $2.8M
Harkless - $2M
Nicholson - $2M
KO - $1M
Rookies (1st round + 2nd round) - $2 - $4M
Capholds - $2M


that's enough for ANOTHER MAX FA from this potential list:


LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Chris Bosh
Greg Monroe
Rudy Gay
Danny Granger
Luol Deng
Zach Randolph
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut
Marcin Gortat


projecting this far ahead is difficult, without knowing how well our rookies from this season or next season will perform, as they will dictate who we would potentially target from that list. there are many that just flat out don't make sense with our younger squad (Kobe/Dirk/Pau), and others that are just very unlikely to join us (LeBron/Wade/Melo). But with a core of:

Vucevic/KO
BBD/Nicholson
Harkless
Harden

plus rookies. we could be adding Monroe/Bosh/Gay/etc to that team.

THAT would be a quick rebuild. it just depends on whether or not you think Harden + another star are enough to take on the Thunder/Heat/Dwight Lakers.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#332 » by The Effect » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:46 am

MagicFan41 wrote:Anybody think we could do something like Harrington for Boozer + Charlotte's 1st? That pick could be really high when it becomes unprotected in a few years and Chicago would get a boozer replacement at half the cost, and aren't hamstringed by his contract for another 3 years.

Im sure they would give us anything we want to take boozer from them, but why the hell would we want him considering we already have 19 PFs and hes gonna make 46mil over the next 3 years and will kill any cap space we have in '14??
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#333 » by magicman123 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:50 am

rcklsscognition wrote:ESPN player rankings going up now. We have 6 Magic/Ex-Magic in the worst bunch.

#465- Liggins
#449- Harper
#427- O'Quinn
#426- Orton (not on Magic)
#423- Ish
#411- Eyenga

Do you think the FO values Harper and Liggins, or are we making them out to be better than they really are?


what did you expect? its not like those players are any good or have done anything in the league..its amazing how over valued players get on the magic board :wink:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#334 » by ChosenSavior » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:53 am

DJRajX wrote:I'm very happy with the hiring of Parker... anything to help our scouting department, I'm for it.


Agreed. It's good to have a former NBA player who had a very solid career as a scout for our team. It's very exciting to see this front office being put together from the ground up. Can't wait to see our team being built the same way now.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#335 » by Bensational » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:59 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Larry Ridley‏@mrlarryridley

Caught up with #Magic CEO Alex Martins, you got to hear his message to fans, "will be a quick rebuild" watch at 6,11 on @WESH #Orlando #NBA


For a "quick" rebuild, I'd imagine that means that the Magic have their eye on some ready established talent, which they plan to chase as the franchise player/centerpiece of the team. someone available in the next free agency or two. you can't rely on landing a franchise caliber player through the draft in a short amount of time - too many variables. what you can rely on is targeting ready-now talent.

i think their plan will be heavily based upon loading up on efficiently paid talent as a supporting cast for 1-2 stars, and BPA talent in the draft, with enough financial flexibility to chase a franchise talent.

my gut tells me that James Harden is our man.

I'd rather hear that they are going to rebuild the right way rather than a "quick rebuild." Not that the 2 things are necessarily mutually exclusive. Still, I think you all see my point.


depends what your definition of "the right way" is.

to me, the right way simply involves good draft picks so that you've always got assets in the bank to deal with, and making sure you can put enough talent on the court together at the one time.


The Effect wrote:2 "problems" i have with that thought are
1 - I know everyone seems to think hes pretty much a rental, but i really think henny and the rest of the FO value Afflalo and wont just be giving up on him after a year (or even less according to some), so i dont see where harden would fit

2 - Isnt everything being mentioned about us having cap space in '14 to sign 2 Max players? Signing harden to a max deal would make that impossible


a lot of what I've read about the Magic's approach this time around is about efficiency. James Harden is a much more efficient focal piece that Afflalo, and as long as Hennigan thinks that paying Harden enough to price him out of OKC's market still keeps him efficient, then I think he's our guy.

there's some big names in 2014, but not as many as you'd think that would help a rebuild from the ground up like we're doing.

LeBron, Wade and Bosh aren't likely to leave a potential dynasty in Miami just so 2 of them can play together in Orlando.

Kobe, Dirk and Pau will all be old, and have long standing relationships with their franchises. I don't consider it likely that any of them leave, and if they did, I don't think they'd be targeted as helpful to the Magic, especially at the price they will command.

Gay, Granger, etc are good, but are they good enough to be a #1/#2 option on a contending team? will they hold up with LeBron and Wade and Durant and Westbrook? personally, I actually think they'd be OK. but it would be a FO decision on how efficient they are.

Bogut, Deng and others have long histories of injury issues. I say we will avoid those kinds of players like the plague.

Then there's the young guys like Monroe, Wall, Jennings, etc. It remains to be seen how good they really are, and they would be restricted options, so their teams are very likely to match whatever they're offered. We don't seem like the type of team that will really want to pay players insanely just to price them out of another team's range. would go against the ideal of efficiency.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#336 » by MagicFan41 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:59 am

The Effect wrote:
MagicFan41 wrote:Anybody think we could do something like Harrington for Boozer + Charlotte's 1st? That pick could be really high when it becomes unprotected in a few years and Chicago would get a boozer replacement at half the cost, and aren't hamstringed by his contract for another 3 years.

Im sure they would give us anything we want to take boozer from them, but why the hell would we want him considering we already have 19 PFs and hes gonna make 46mil over the next 3 years and will kill any cap space we have in '14??


Could use him as an expiring that summer to trade him away. Not saying that's the greatest trade or anything but just thinking of ways we could possibly use our TPE (would prob have to be a non-expiring large contract) to get a really great draft pick...

Swapping Harrington for Boozer wouldn't add any PFs, it's just swapping one for another really. I wonder if they would do it with Deng instead of Boozer. Won't hurt our cap situation in 2014 at all since he expires then.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#337 » by The Effect » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:03 am

MagicFan41 wrote:
The Effect wrote:
MagicFan41 wrote:Anybody think we could do something like Harrington for Boozer + Charlotte's 1st? That pick could be really high when it becomes unprotected in a few years and Chicago would get a boozer replacement at half the cost, and aren't hamstringed by his contract for another 3 years.

Im sure they would give us anything we want to take boozer from them, but why the hell would we want him considering we already have 19 PFs and hes gonna make 46mil over the next 3 years and will kill any cap space we have in '14??


Could use him as an expiring that summer to trade him away. Not saying that's the greatest trade or anything but just thinking of ways we could possibly use our TPE (would prob have to be a non-expiring large contract) to get a really great draft pick...

Swapping Harrington for Boozer wouldn't add any PFs, it's just swapping one for another really. I wonder if they would do it with Deng instead of Boozer. Won't hurt our cap situation in 2014 at all since he expires then.

Its not about adding another PF, its about getting rid of some of the ones we have.
Also, there is no way we take on that contract, im sure there are MUCH better ways to use the TPE to get draft picks that paying him. Hell, we wouldnt even pay Ryan HALF that and hes just as good and is alot younger
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#338 » by Darth Magic » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:46 am

I think the real target of the Magic is Russell Westbrook.
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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI "Re-Building" Edition) 

Post#339 » by MagicTownBaller » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:55 am

Darth Magic wrote:I think the real target of the Magic is Russell Westbrook.


YES! I want my favorite PG in the NBA on my favorite team!

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI 

Post#340 » by MagicFan41 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:07 am

Darth Magic wrote:I think the real target of the Magic is Russell Westbrook.


Since he just signed a long term deal, why would they trade him and what would we really offer? Why do you think that's our target. I highly doubt that.

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