Wizards Trade for Andre Miller

[stevemcqueen1]

The other frustrating thing about Vesely is apart from being a completely wasted 6th pick, EG also wasted a high 2nd round pick in Tomas Satoransky in hopes they'd be bffs.

That, and Ves had about the least "NBA-ready" physique I've ever seen. Has EG ever explained his rationale for the pick? (assuming he had one). Or better, has Ted explained how he measures employee performance?

Go back to the DX rankings from 2011 and they had Vesely ranked around where we picked him. Vesely got worse once he got here.

But the core of why he got picked where he did was that the class was terrible and seen as terrible at the time (especially if you were picking early but fell off the Valanciunas/Kanter/Williams/Irving plateau) & Vesely is a super athletic 7 footer. It was a similar situation to Anthony Randolph, although Randolph got pushed down into a more natural project range because his class was loaded. Teams will draft a body and see if they can mold the raw clay.

But the Vesely project got abandoned almost immediately. Better options came along in Nene and Okafor and Ariza and Martell.

If we had needed to develop him, I bet you would have seen far more of an effort to do it. Or on the flip side, if we were a much more stable organization when we picked him, we would have already had most of our roster in place and a coach that wasn't worried about his job each offseason and he would have been taken with a fairly concrete role in mind.

The roster was so up in the air at the beginning of the Wall era. We were trying to dump the detritus from the Arenas era. Desperately trying not to have the Wall era stall out. Wall was already our longest tenured player at the beginning of last season which is nuts. Went 5-28 during Wall's absence, the team was historically horrible. A testament to how ruinous the transition almost was. If Wall hadn't come back strong and shown franchise player caliber, everyone would have been fired and the thing would have been torn down. Total disaster. Searching for a new franchise player with an early pick in one of the worst drafts of the post merger era. Probably going on 8 or 9 straight years of lottery teams if lucky, with nothing to show for the first five seasons except dead contract money.

That's part of why this was absolutely a make or break season for the Wall/Beal era. If things hadn't gotten better, we'd be Cleveland right now.

[GhostsOfGil]

I actually think Beal is still the weak link in our starting lineup. His efficiency has continued to fall and he's not hitting 3s at a high volume anymore. Sustained play from Ariza, Nene, and Wall is the reason why we have been semi successful. Vesley was a bad pick all around. Normally I would never defend this teams development strategy, but he was given a slew of opportunities and consistently disappointed.

[hands11]

The FO drafted Vesely without a real plan for him. Fired his coach almost immediately. Changed his position. Asked him to transform his body. Immediately went out and acquired older veterans that pushed his development down the priorities list. Never gave him any burn really. Even if he didn't have serious holes in his game, he wouldn't have worked out.

One of the hardest things to do is keep a core that's too young together. It always gets broken up and the team only keeps a couple of its most essential draft picks. It happened to the Baby Bulls back in the early 2000's. Guys like Tyson Chandler busted there but ended up being very good players down the road for different teams. It's happening to Sacramento and us now.

Teams that are too young lose and don't develop properly. You can't have everyone learning on the job at the same time or else no one will actually be able to do their job. You won't be able to play defense or shoot or run a good offense. That was us our first two seasons. So they get broken up or else the FO gets fired and a new FO comes in and tears down what the old one did.

That's also why teams that "tank" to stockpile draft picks often stay in the lottery shuffling their talent.

Yeep. That usually what happens.

[mohammed10]

The FO drafted Vesely without a real plan for him. Fired his coach almost immediately. Changed his position. Asked him to transform his body. Immediately went out and acquired older veterans that pushed his development down the priorities list. Never gave him any burn really. Even if he didn't have serious holes in his game, he wouldn't have worked out.

One of the hardest things to do is keep a core that's too young together. It always gets broken up and the team only keeps a couple of its most essential draft picks. It happened to the Baby Bulls back in the early 2000's. Guys like Tyson Chandler busted there but ended up being very good players down the road for different teams. It's happening to Sacramento and us now.

Teams that are too young lose and don't develop properly. You can't have everyone learning on the job at the same time or else no one will actually be able to do their job. You won't be able to play defense or shoot or run a good offense. That was us our first two seasons. So they get broken up or else the FO gets fired and a new FO comes in and tears down what the old one did.

That's also why teams that "tank" to stockpile draft picks often stay in the lottery shuffling their talent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Not exactly hard-hitting reporting by Jason Reid, but it's something that many on this board already know...

[Ruzious]

The FO drafted Vesely without a real plan for him. Fired his coach almost immediately. Changed his position. Asked him to transform his body. Immediately went out and acquired older veterans that pushed his development down the priorities list. Never gave him any burn really. Even if he didn't have serious holes in his game, he wouldn't have worked out.

One of the hardest things to do is keep a core that's too young together. It always gets broken up and the team only keeps a couple of its most essential draft picks. It happened to the Baby Bulls back in the early 2000's. Guys like Tyson Chandler busted there but ended up being very good players down the road for different teams. It's happening to Sacramento and us now.

Teams that are too young lose and don't develop properly. You can't have everyone learning on the job at the same time or else no one will actually be able to do their job. You won't be able to play defense or shoot or run a good offense. That was us our first two seasons. So they get broken up or else the FO gets fired and a new FO comes in and tears down what the old one did.

That's also why teams that "tank" to stockpile draft picks often stay in the lottery shuffling their talent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Not exactly hard-hitting reporting by Jason Reid, but it's something that many on this board already know...

Good article by Jason, but I'll disagree on 2 points. One is easy - Vesely WAS given a fair chance - several of them. And he failed. Two, it's not that they didn't initially have a good strategy of building through the draft. The problem was they made too many bad selections - not that they didn't let these poor selections shine by playing them more.

[mohammed10]

Good article by Jason, but I'll disagree on 2 points. One is easy - Vesely WAS given a fair chance - several of them. And he failed. Two, it's not that they didn't initially have a good strategy of building through the draft. The problem was they made too many bad selections - not that they didn't let these poor selections shine by playing them more.

Ruz- Agree with your points. However, Reid's article was not condemning enough of Ernie's failures as a drafter/GM. Reid poo-poos Ernie's drafting maladies by stating Ted's modification of the plan, mandating a playoff run or bust mentality.

[dckingsfan]

I actually think Beal is still the weak link in our starting lineup. His efficiency has continued to fall and he's not hitting 3s at a high volume anymore.

There is no question Beal is the weak link... I will play the devil's advocate on this one.
1) He is young - 20 - and he needs PT to develop
2) Egos are fragile - so we shouldn't cut back his minutes
3) Other teams now game plan for Beal but Beal hasn't yet developed enough of a repertoire to counter their game plans
4) This off-season will be the key - does Beal take the next step, guards often take a big step in year 3.

If Beal makes the jump, we are solid - if not, plan B (and no, EG doesn't have a plan B)

[mhd]

The FO drafted Vesely without a real plan for him. Fired his coach almost immediately. Changed his position. Asked him to transform his body. Immediately went out and acquired older veterans that pushed his development down the priorities list. Never gave him any burn really. Even if he didn't have serious holes in his game, he wouldn't have worked out.

One of the hardest things to do is keep a core that's too young together. It always gets broken up and the team only keeps a couple of its most essential draft picks. It happened to the Baby Bulls back in the early 2000's. Guys like Tyson Chandler busted there but ended up being very good players down the road for different teams. It's happening to Sacramento and us now.

Teams that are too young lose and don't develop properly. You can't have everyone learning on the job at the same time or else no one will actually be able to do their job. You won't be able to play defense or shoot or run a good offense. That was us our first two seasons. So they get broken up or else the FO gets fired and a new FO comes in and tears down what the old one did.

That's also why teams that "tank" to stockpile draft picks often stay in the lottery shuffling their talent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wi ... story.html

Not exactly hard-hitting reporting by Jason Reid, but it's something that many on this board already know...

Good article by Jason, but I'll disagree on 2 points. One is easy - Vesely WAS given a fair chance - several of them. And he failed. Two, it's not that they didn't initially have a good strategy of building through the draft. The problem was they made too many bad selections - not that they didn't let these poor selections shine by playing them more.

Jason Reid is such a bad writer. He's a horrible columnist for the Post. Booker HAS developed. He's been more than anyone could have hoped for as the 23rd pick in the 1st round. Booker is a legit solid 8-9th man on any team.

Singleton was given the entire rookie year to start, and he was horrible. Singleton never developed his outside jumper, and that was the key to making it in the NBA.

Seraphin was a project, and his poor rebounding and bad decisions, despite getting an ample amount of PT have led him to not pan out. Still, he gets a ton of PT as the primary backup center on the team.

Ves stunk because he NEVER had any offensive skill. Why doesn't Reid focus on that? Why doesn't he focus on the players we missed?

Porter looks like a bust because he wasn't a can't miss prospect. Porter won't get PT if Ariza is resigned because Ariza, Webster, and Beal will soak it all up. A young big is DRASTICALLY needed on this team, and they passed on Noel and Len.

[Kanyewest]

Lol @ this EG interview with CSN. "Andre will provide veteran leadership and experience for our young guys in the 2nd unit"

Who the **** is young on the 2nd unit? RICE AND PORTER DON'T EVEN PLAY LOL.

Booker, Seraphin, and Beal (Webster is inserted earlier so Beal can play with the second unit).

[LyricalRico]

4) This off-season will be the key - does Beal take the next step, guards often take a big step in year 3.

Didn't he get a late start on this last offseason because of the injury late in the previous season? And then he's also lost time this year, too. A full offseason after a playoff run will hopefully mean he turns the corner next year.

[mohammed10]

Didn't he get a late start on this last offseason because of the injury late in the previous season? And then he's also lost time this year, too. A full offseason after a playoff run will hopefully mean he turns the corner next year.

Lots of corners to be turned next season...Beal, Porter, etc.

[leswizards]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/hard-to-build-a-case-the-wizards-are-drafting-the-right-way/2014/02/22/91a9767e-9c30-11e3-975d-107dfef7b668_story.html

Not exactly hard-hitting reporting by Jason Reid, but it's something that many on this board already know...

Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but I think EG is on his way out, and he knows it. He reached out to Jason Reid, and for PR purposes fed him the story that he did exactly what Ted wanted him to do, and you can't blame him for the failures when Ted changes strategy right in the middle of what EG is doing with drafting young players.

[mohammed10]

Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but I think EG is on his way out, and he knows it. He reached out to Jason Reid, and for PR purposes fed him the story that he did exactly what Ted wanted him to do, and you can't blame him for the failures when Ted changes strategy right in the middle of what EG is doing with drafting young players.

We are all wishing for the same, including some of Ernie's most ardent supporters on this board.

[WallToWall]

Ted gave EG the goal of reaching the playoffs. EG picked players that would get the team there. In a very weak division, EG may succeed. But still, its obvious that his strategy is a failure for the long term goal. A good GM picks the right players in the draft (the obvious doesnt count - Beal, Wall. You and I could do that!). EG has failed at that. So yeah, he is on the way out. And Ted still has a goal to make the playoffs.

[dobrojim]

re Ves and the FO's inability to develop him, the mistake there is 2 fold:

1. The FO shoulda/coulda done a better job at evaluating his mental characteristics
as to whether he was likely to be the personality type that would work long and hard
to address weaknesses in his game. His 28% FT avg is sufficient evidence that he does
not possess the psychological makeup imperative to better achievement. So they failed
in that respect.

2. That's been on him for not developing, not the FO which as I state above
failed to identify either/or the extent to which he was raw vs his obsession
in getting better. But he failed in being sufficiently determined to improve.

[dckingsfan]

4) This off-season will be the key - does Beal take the next step, guards often take a big step in year 3.

Didn't he get a late start on this last offseason because of the injury late in the previous season? And then he's also lost time this year, too. A full offseason after a playoff run will hopefully mean he turns the corner next year.

Yep, yep and agreed - at least that is the hope

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

re Ves and the FO's inability to develop him, the mistake there is 2 fold:

1. The FO shoulda/coulda done a better job at evaluating his mental characteristics
as to whether he was likely to be the personality type that would work long and hard
to address weaknesses in his game. His 28% FT avg is sufficient evidence that he does
not possess the psychological makeup imperative to better achievement. So they failed
in that respect.

2. That's been on him for not developing, not the FO which as I state above
failed to identify either/or the extent to which he was raw vs his obsession
in getting better. But he failed in being sufficiently determined to improve.

Vesely's FT shooting is a mental block IMO. It can be cured very easily.



Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Ruzious]

re Ves and the FO's inability to develop him, the mistake there is 2 fold:

1. The FO shoulda/coulda done a better job at evaluating his mental characteristics
as to whether he was likely to be the personality type that would work long and hard
to address weaknesses in his game. His 28% FT avg is sufficient evidence that he does
not possess the psychological makeup imperative to better achievement. So they failed
in that respect.

2. That's been on him for not developing, not the FO which as I state above
failed to identify either/or the extent to which he was raw vs his obsession
in getting better. But he failed in being sufficiently determined to improve.

Vesely's FT shooting is a mental block IMO. It can be cured very easily.



Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Why is it that 99% of players don't have that mental block? And if it's easy to cure, why hasn't he done something to cure it?

[verbal8]

I agree that mental issues are very difficult to overcome especially in a high pressure situation like the NBA.

Maybe it isn't fair to lump mental issues effecting performance with serious life-effecting psychological issues, but I think there are similarities. The players I can think of who have had these issues are:
Nick Anderson
Delonte West
Metta World Peace/Ron Artest
Royce White

A small sample size but only Metta World Peace has been able to overcome his mental issues(age has started to catch up with him) and it seems like it has been a very determined effort to do so on his part. Nick Anderson was able to play decently, but never shoot well from the free throw line.

re Ves and the FO's inability to develop him, the mistake there is 2 fold:

1. The FO shoulda/coulda done a better job at evaluating his mental characteristics
as to whether he was likely to be the personality type that would work long and hard
to address weaknesses in his game. His 28% FT avg is sufficient evidence that he does
not possess the psychological makeup imperative to better achievement. So they failed
in that respect.

2. That's been on him for not developing, not the FO which as I state above
failed to identify either/or the extent to which he was raw vs his obsession
in getting better. But he failed in being sufficiently determined to improve.

Vesely's FT shooting is a mental block IMO. It can be cured very easily.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Why is it that 99% of players don't have that mental block? And if it's easy to cure, why hasn't he done something to cure it?

[dobrojim]

re Ves and the FO's inability to develop him, the mistake there is 2 fold:

1. The FO shoulda/coulda done a better job at evaluating his mental characteristics
as to whether he was likely to be the personality type that would work long and hard
to address weaknesses in his game. His 28% FT avg is sufficient evidence that he does
not possess the psychological makeup imperative to better achievement. So they failed
in that respect.

2. That's been on him for not developing, not the FO which as I state above
failed to identify either/or the extent to which he was raw vs his obsession
in getting better. But he failed in being sufficiently determined to improve.

Vesely's FT shooting is a mental block IMO. It can be cured very easily.

sorry. With all due respect, there is no evidence to substantiate that
and lots of evidence to refute it. If it was easy, it would have already happened.