Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

[bwgood77]

Lol no way in hell,Phil is doing that deal, would go against common sense. When you have the chance to land a premiere big you take it and don't look back That would probably set the Knicks franchise back for years and turn them into a treadmill team even in a joke of a conference

I know it would be stupid but those guys are not in their jobs to go through a rebuild. Dolan and Phil don't have the patience. I just don't know what kind of star they can expect to get. Maybe they will try to S&T for Love and Okafor or Towns will play with LeBron and Kyrie and take over for Mozgov down the line, though I don't think the Cavs want to go with a rookie either or they would have kept Wiggins.

[Mr-Al]

That trade seems...fairly weak. The real prizes in this draft are Russel, Towns, Winslow, and Okafor (in no particular order), although how you value Okafor is entirely dependent on how much you think he'll be capable of developing as a defender. Mudiay, Stein, Oubre, Johnson, Hezonja, Porzingis etc. are all nice upside guys but they are a cut below. They could certainly develop to be better than any of the top 4 guys, but those top 4 guys are all looking like guys with high floors and sky high ceilings.

I would say it is unlikely that a true franchise changing stud is available at sixth. That trade is the type of move you make if one of two things is true. You'd make that trade if 1. Markieff was a free agent after 1 or 2 more years and you were uninterested in signing him, or 2. you were interested in doing a full re-build and wanted to go after the maximum amount of young talent.

Clearly, #1 is not true, as the Suns have re-signed Markieff already. #2 is also not true because it doesn't jive with anything the Suns have done lately, which is aggressively lock in talent (Bledsoe, Morris twins, IT) at good prices before the cap raise. It's why they traded for Knight after retaining Dragic became an impossibility, and it's why they probably would have given Dragic a competitive offer, no matter the size of it had he stayed.

Moreover, this may be the worst time in recent memory to begin a new rebuild, like you would be doing by shipping off a productive player on a cheap contract AND your draft pick to move up. With the impending cap rise, if you have solid talent locked in at pre-rise prices, you're at a unique advantage. If you start a re-build now, when it comes time to add valued contributors, you'll be paying a lot in the post-cap increase world.

The Suns should be looking to aggressively upgrade at every position. Until you find your superstar (your AD, your Durant, your Lebron, your Shaq or Kobe or whatever player you're confident in saying 'you can be the best player on a title team') you need to consider your roster as completely flexible with all players on the trading block for the right price. I'd upgrade at PG if we could (but it seems unlikely). I'd upgrade at SG, SF, PF, or C.

I don't think this is the way to do it. The Morris twins may not be popular here, but I think you would be hard pressed to argue that they wouldn't be great bench forwards as 7th and 8th men. We can win games with them gritting out 40+ minutes as starters - seems like we'd be able to win games if they were on the bench playing 20-30 minutes behind better players, yeah? If it became necessary to trade the Morris twins for a direct upgrade, then of course you pull the trigger, but spewing away them and their extremely favorable contracts plus a draft pick just to move up to a draft slot where you're unlikely to see a real franchise changer seems like a poor move.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, I also think the Morri with their great contracts can be really good players to have coming off the bench on a contending team

Again though, if the FO, who I personally think has shown adept drafting skill, is completely convinced that someone available at 6th could be a superstar (our Durant etc.), I think you have to do this trade.

I don't think we can afford to pass up these types of opportunities if we really think it's a good pick

Do you guys see any other options besides Sactown in terms of moving up? I saw them as the best candidate and Kieff fit their team the best

Sac would probably be the best bet since they are obviously eager to win now, and I'm sure Karl would rather have a productive starter. I imagine we'd only do it if we value Porzingis or Hezonja that much. Winslow is intriguing but he is a 3, as is Stanley Johnson and some of the others.

If we want a big PF/C, our pick at 13 will get us that, whether it be Looney, Turner, or Lyles.

I think even moving up to the 9-11 range would make a lot of those guys more available, I probably like Turner the best out of that group and I think he'll definitely be gone by then

I think the Pistons might also be open to swinging a deal with us as they would really want to make the playoffs next year, with Greg Monroe probably being gone, they'll have a Morris sized hole that would fit their team and SVG's scheme pretty well

Their 8th pick of course might not be worth one or both Morris twin, I don't know. Depends on who's available I guess, I might still do it if a Porzingis or someone with that kind of potential was available

[Mulhollanddrive]

Christian Wood is someone I'd take at 13, even though he's rated in the 20's in mock drafts.

Plumlee, Golbert, Dieng, Sullinger were all taken in the 20s in the past few drafts.

[bwgood77]

Brandon Ashley entering the draft. Not saying Suns should get him, but for AZ fans.

[kennydorglas]

Like I said earlier, I'm starting a study in this draft. I'm comparing 2012--2014 notable draftees (1st round and some good 2nd rounders). I create an average with all this studs and now i'm seeing who are a really standout player in this draft.

Right now I have this guys like a complete stud:
Delon Wright
Jerian Grant
Cameron Payne
RJ Hunter
Derrick Marks
Rondae
Sir'Dominic Pointer
Myles Turner
Aaron White
Kevon Looney
Branden Dawson

It's kinda interesting to see it... only Dawson has a better ORB%/DRB%/TRB% than the average PF draftee in the past 3 drafts
WCS didnt stand out, Rozier has a lot of elite skills but lack BBIQ and slashing power, Oubre is interesting but I cant call him a stud yet... a lot of unpolished young bigs in this draft (Jarell Martin, Jordan Mickey, McCullough)

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I love the draft, look forward to it every year. But this draft is trash. If we can't get a top 3 pick, we should try to trade out. Seriously. Just terrible.

If we stay where we are, I'd look at Looney, Hollis-Jefferson, Poeltl, and Harrell. Don't know if McD has something up his sleeve: would love to see him gamble here, since there's barely any NBA talent in this draft outside the top 5. Seriously. Awful.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Both the Wisconsin guys are going to go around the 14th pick. Both are interesting prospects. To me Kaminsky is probably a really good backup 4/5 who will have a nice career but probably isn't a good enough athlete to be a star. Dekker is way more boom or bust. Dudes big for a 3 and is capable of doing everything one would want in an NBA small forward. But he has a tendency to disappear in games and his shot is on right now but has been inconsistent most of the year. Might not matter though since I have a feeling he tests out great athletically and ends up rising into the top 10 after the combine.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I love the draft, look forward to it every year. But this draft is trash. If we can't get a top 3 pick, we should try to trade out. Seriously. Just terrible.

If we stay where we are, I'd look at Looney, Hollis-Jefferson, Poeltl, and Harrell. Don't know if McD has something up his sleeve: would love to see him gamble here, since there's barely any NBA talent in this draft outside the top 5. Seriously. Awful.

funny you say that because it seems like nationally pundits like this draft. I'm kinda with you that it seems pretty underwhelming after about 8. Scarry thing is the 16 draft is supposed to be even worse.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I love the draft, look forward to it every year. But this draft is trash. If we can't get a top 3 pick, we should try to trade out. Seriously. Just terrible.

If we stay where we are, I'd look at Looney, Hollis-Jefferson, Poeltl, and Harrell. Don't know if McD has something up his sleeve: would love to see him gamble here, since there's barely any NBA talent in this draft outside the top 5. Seriously. Awful.

funny you say that because it seems like nationally pundits like this draft. I'm kinda with you that it seems pretty underwhelming after about 8. Scarry thing is the 16 draft is supposed to be even worse.

Can you give me a link to support either statement (that pundits really like the draft or that '16 is going to be even worse)?

I thought there were enough solid prospects for two drafts last year, and we luckily, we had three picks. I really don't mind missing out on this one. But time will tell if I'm blind. I didn't realize the 2011 draft would be so deep, but there it is.

Where would Rodney Hood go in this draft? Or Jordan Adams? Or Kyle Anderson? I say they could have all gone lotto. Yeesh.

[tdjm]

I love the draft, look forward to it every year. But this draft is trash. If we can't get a top 3 pick, we should try to trade out. Seriously. Just terrible.

If we stay where we are, I'd look at Looney, Hollis-Jefferson, Poeltl, and Harrell. Don't know if McD has something up his sleeve: would love to see him gamble here, since there's barely any NBA talent in this draft outside the top 5. Seriously. Awful.

funny you say that because it seems like nationally pundits like this draft. I'm kinda with you that it seems pretty underwhelming after about 8. Scarry thing is the 16 draft is supposed to be even worse.

Can you give me a link to support either statement (that pundits really like the draft or that '16 is going to be even worse)?

I thought there were enough solid prospects for two drafts last year, and we luckily, we had three picks. I really don't mind missing out on this one. But time will tell if I'm blind. I didn't realize the 2011 draft would be so deep, but there it is.

Where would Rodney Hood go in this draft? Or Jordan Adams? Or Kyle Anderson? I say they could have all gone lotto. Yeesh.

https://twitter.com/draftexpress/status ... 1283948544

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress

NBA teams I talk seem to be valuing 2015 1st round picks far more than 2016 picks. 2016 Draft is not inspiring a lot of excitement early on.

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress Feb 19

2015 high school senior class (the backbone of the 2016 lottery) is considered to be one of the weakest in years. 1996 int'l class also poor

I love the draft, look forward to it every year. But this draft is trash. If we can't get a top 3 pick, we should try to trade out. Seriously. Just terrible.

If we stay where we are, I'd look at Looney, Hollis-Jefferson, Poeltl, and Harrell. Don't know if McD has something up his sleeve: would love to see him gamble here, since there's barely any NBA talent in this draft outside the top 5. Seriously. Awful.

Looney, RHJ, and Poeltl are all kind of neat - I'd be fine drafting any of them. I'm going to **** post forever about Ryan McDonough on the internet if he drafts Harrell though. That would be horrific.

I don't think this draft is terrible per se. I just don't think it has very much franchise talent in it. The main 3 players worth getting excited over are Towns, Winslow, and Russell. How excited you are for Okafor depends on how much you value his skill set and how much you think he can develop as a competent defender and rebounder (If you made me guess, I'd say he'll wind up fine on the glass but remain weak as a defender). The remainder of the guys from 5th best to 25th best are all basically neat guys with some nice upsides and some coachable downsides and a lot of them are essentially interchangeable. Even late lottery can get you a nice contributor in this draft, but I really doubt it will produce a franchise cornerstone. Development will be key here.

[bwgood77]

I love the draft, look forward to it every year. But this draft is trash. If we can't get a top 3 pick, we should try to trade out. Seriously. Just terrible.

If we stay where we are, I'd look at Looney, Hollis-Jefferson, Poeltl, and Harrell. Don't know if McD has something up his sleeve: would love to see him gamble here, since there's barely any NBA talent in this draft outside the top 5. Seriously. Awful.

I can't speak to how good some of the late lottery picks will pan out (nor can anyone really). The only guy I like out of the guys you mention is Looney. As much as I love Hollis-Jefferson, if he can't learn to shoot (and he hasn't yet) he will be useless in the nba. A defensive stopper and glue guy but he's got a long road to go with his shot. I used to like Harrell more. He kind of faded for me, is older and is a bit undersized. Poeltl really seems overrated to me. He did nothing against Tarczewski in either game...they played to about a draw in the first one and Tarc really outplayed him in the second one. I know people say he did a decent job vs Okafor but Okafor still shot 50%....they just mostly got the offense from elsewhere in that game.

I read that some GMs are comparing Looney to Odom. I like his length, size, athleticism, he can play inside and out, and is a great rebounder.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Thanks for the replies, fellas! Good stuff!

Yeah, I'm not too confident in Poeltl or Harrell - I picked them mostly because I see so little NBA talent in this draft. I have Looney as the #6 or #7 prospect right now - wide body, long arms, gets steals and blocks, can shoot the 3. I have a hard time seeing him go outside the top 10, though some mocks have him going closer to 20.

Hollis-Jefferson is my target right now. We know he'll be a quality NBA defender. High motor, great body, smart, athletic, unselfish. Yes, the shooting is a big concern. But I'd strongly consider him at 13, though nbadraft.net has him at 29. Wow - I rarely differ so strongly with the consensus.

[bwgood77]

Thanks for the replies, fellas! Good stuff!

Yeah, I'm not too confident in Poeltl or Harrell - I picked them mostly because I see so little NBA talent in this draft. I have Looney as the #6 or #7 prospect right now - wide body, long arms, gets steals and blocks, can shoot the 3. I have a hard time seeing him go outside the top 10, though some mocks have him going closer to 20.

Hollis-Jefferson is my target right now. We know he'll be a quality NBA defender. High motor, great body, smart, athletic, unselfish. Yes, the shooting is a big concern. But I'd strongly consider him at 13, though nbadraft.net has him at 29. Wow - I rarely differ so strongly with the consensus.

I think there is zero chance we take Hollis-Jefferson. I do wonder, especially after watching the national championship, if McD would consider taking Tyus Jones. I hope not. He is just a small scoring pg...he was awesome, but so was Napier last year...of course Tyus is a frosh, but any reasonable nba exec has to know there is a much higher premium on bigs with the flood of good pgs...it diminishes their value. We NEED a PF in the worst way.

Looney is like 7th on Chad Ford's board, which is based on his interactions with GMs, so yeah, I doubt he will be there. The other guy I have recently thought about who could be a bit underrated is Trey Lyles. Look at his size and skills. Kentucky was so deep and had Towns and Cauley Stein, but this guy is a 6'10 beast. If no Looney, I'd probably gamble on him or Turner.

Positives for Lyles (ranked 18th on Ford's board):

Skilled, inside-outside big man
Great footwork and soft touch around the basket
Nice little turnaround jumper
Can put the ball on the floor and get past his defender
Very solid shooter with range out to 3-point line
Solid ball handler for his size
Good passer with a high basketball IQ

Positives for Myles Turner (ranked 10th on Ford's big board)

Long, athletic big man
Good shooter with three point range
Good speed for a player his size
Soft hands around the basket
Good short to mid-range game
Good passer out of double-teams
High basketball IQ and feel for the game
Excellent shot blocker

[thamadkant]

I rather have Demarcus Cousins at 30 million a year than Markieff Morris at 8 million a year.
I rather have Russell Westbrook at 30 million a year than Knight or Bledsoe at 15 million a year.
I rather have Harden at 30 million a year than anyone on the Suns roster even if those players are playing for free...

Look, I understand the Morris twins are a bargain in terms of comparing them to other OVERPAID non-star players, yes, they are a decent value and "fair" contract for sure, but I wouldnt brag too much. I mean, if they were legit All-Stars and are true cornerstones or players you build around, I'll be bragging for having them signed at 1/3 of other MVP candidates...but rather have a top 10 player in the league even at 35 million a year, atleast you know you can build round those players.. OR atleast enjoy watching their star-talent on the team.

I agree with this 100%.

I'm sure everyone agrees with this. But 99% of us know those guys are not, and will not, be available, so discussing that you'd rather have Cousins, Westbrook or Harden than the Morris twins is ridiculously silly.

I was trying to make a point about so many fans wanting to keep the Morris simply because they are “great” value.

Which I believe is rubbish… “great” value is subjective to the expectations and which comparisons are available… if you compare the Morris twins to Chandler Parsons or some other overpaid Non-star player.. Yes, “great value”.
But if you compare them to players like Kawhi Leonard, Steph Curry, Lebron James etc, not so “great” afterall.

Morris’s performance and impact on the court… their current salaries are “not bad”…. But not “great” considering everything else. Yes, they are playing under their “market” value but “market” value is so subjective and so highly dependent on who is available, because some teams are dumb enough to use up their cap space for mediocre players because they want to make a splash for the sake of a splash.

DeMarcus Cousins is still not impossible… highly improbable, but he could easily give up on the King’s front office and demand a trade. Sure, other teams can offer all-stars for Cousins, but Suns can offer multiple assets and cap space if need be. Suns at best have an outside shot and if McD is willing to add Len and more picks, Suns may be the best trading partner afterall. Still… highly improbable.

But my point is, I posted what I posted because I wanted to reiterate that “great/good” contracts are highly subjective, and I rather use up huge amounts of space for REAL All-Stars anyday, atleast those guys can attract TALENT to the team.

[bwgood77]

I agree with this 100%.

I'm sure everyone agrees with this. But 99% of us know those guys are not, and will not, be available, so discussing that you'd rather have Cousins, Westbrook or Harden than the Morris twins is ridiculously silly.

I was trying to make a point about so many fans wanting to keep the Morris simply because they are “great” value.

Which I believe is rubbish… “great” value is subjective to the expectations and which comparisons are available… if you compare the Morris twins to Chandler Parsons or some other overpaid Non-star player.. Yes, “great value”.
But if you compare them to players like Kawhi Leonard, Steph Curry, Lebron James etc, not so “great” afterall.

Morris’s performance and impact on the court… their current salaries are “not bad”…. But not “great” considering everything else. Yes, they are playing under their “market” value but “market” value is so subjective and so highly dependent on who is available, because some teams are dumb enough to use up their cap space for mediocre players because they want to make a splash for the sake of a splash.

DeMarcus Cousins is still not impossible… highly improbable, but he could easily give up on the King’s front office and demand a trade. Sure, other teams can offer all-stars for Cousins, but Suns can offer multiple assets and cap space if need be. Suns at best have an outside shot and if McD is willing to add Len and more picks, Suns may be the best trading partner afterall. Still… highly improbable.

But my point is, I posted what I posted because I wanted to reiterate that “great/good” contracts are highly subjective, and I rather use up huge amounts of space for REAL All-Stars anyday, atleast those guys can attract TALENT to the team.

If McD has the opportunity to trade the twins for Cousins he won't hesitate. But many people say just trade them...well...the return has to be right, or it's not wise if they are good value. Of course they are not the value of a handful of GREAT players on good contracts, but those guys are not available and won't be. IF Cousins is traded, I highly doubt it is before Karl has him for, at a very minimum, a half season. Love is probably the most attainable but the fact that he isn't locked into a contract makes it a huge risk to trade or do some sort of sign and trade for him. If we do trade the twins, we would need to bring in a better PF and I just don't see a scenario where that is possible right now. I'm not attached to the twins whatsoever, but Kieff certainly isn't a scrub, and even Mook has had gamea that are better than just about anyone else making his money outside of rookie contracts. I'm not saying I particularly like their games, and perhaps there could be addition by subtraction to some extent, even if you brought in a slight downgrade, but I don't see that a big name will be available. If we can get one of the guys you mention, I'm certain most everyone will be all for it. The twins would be phenomenal off the bench, but to upgrade immediately at PF will be tough....there are probably less than half of the starting PFs in the league that are better.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Not interested in Lyles - he appears all offense, and quite perimeter oriented for a big. I'd be more interested in Oubre, I suppose. He looks better to me than James Young ever did.

Myles Turner has such a long ways to go. Small waist, moves awkwardly, can't get anything inside. I think he's coming out now because he's worried he won't show any improvement this year, and might slip further as a result.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

OK - assuming the Knicks get the #2 pick.

New York: Bledsoe, #9 pick
Washington: Morris twins, Hairston, #13 pick, 2016 Cavs pick
Charlotte: Beal, #19 pick
Phoenix: Vonleh, #2 pick, Calderon, Nene

or

#13 & Miami pick for Dario Saric

[bwgood77]

Not interested in Lyles - he appears all offense, and quite perimeter oriented for a big. I'd be more interested in Oubre, I suppose. He looks better to me than James Young ever did.

Myles Turner has such a long ways to go. Small waist, moves awkwardly, can't get anything inside. I think he's coming out now because he's worried he won't show any improvement this year, and might slip further as a result.

Yeah, but Oubre isn't as good as Warren, so I'd rather get a PF or possibly C backup.

[kennydorglas]

Kaminsky is legit.
Elite shooting, DRB%, fantastic AST/TO for a big
Rated pretty much like Turner (less defense, more QI)

[bwgood77]

Kaminsky is legit.
Elite shooting, DRB%, fantastic AST/TO for a big
Rated pretty much like Turner (less defense, more QI)

He is, but college seniors often look legit in college. Tyler Hansbrough for example. Look at the side by side comparison of Kaminsky vs Myles Turner as freshmen.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... k-kaminsky