Political Roundtable Part XXVI

[closg00]

Cringe, Ivanka out of her depth in this viral video

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[montestewart]

Cringe, Ivanka out of her depth in this viral video

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Proxies for world leaders may lack the actual power, but usually they have some sort of experiential background. Loyalty is so much more important than knowledge in this administration.

Female empowerment is a worthy cause, but Trump's marketing background sends her inappropriately to product placement during a conversation with two empowered men and two empowered women who seem to be talking about something else entirely. That grin is priceless, but one lesson she never learned from dad was shut up and listen.

[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

3 additional opinions (and that's all they are, opinions, in this case published by the WaPo in Saturday's print edition)
re the concentration camp 'issue'.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/they-are-concentration-camps/2019/06/28/b70a72c4-9847-11e9-9a16-dc551ea5a43b_story.html?utm_term=.91ba22ab20de

Regarding Richard Cohen’s June 25 Tuesday Opinion column, “Language that inflames”:

I presume that Mr. Cohen knows the meaning of the word “concentration.” And that concentration camps are places where people of the same race, ethnicity or ideology are confined, not allowed to leave and treated roughly. You can do it to Americans of Japanese ancestry and call them relocation or internment camps. The Chinese called them reeducation camps. Even the Nazis called theirs labor camps (“arbeit macht frei”). But the rest of us know these are only euphemisms for a disgusting practice.

No matter what kind of paint you slap on a barn, it remains a barn.

People became upset when President Trump’s border prisons for migrant children were compared to Nazi concentration camps by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.).

One need not look back 70 years to draw a parallel. Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu was near-universally condemned for his similar treatment of children in his country’s orphanages. As Ceausescu was driven from office, so, too, it may be time for Mr. Trump to go.

Call them concentration camps. The detention centers at the border are, by dictionary definition, concentration camps. Calling them so isn’t inflammatory; it is accurate.

I used to wonder, how on earth did the Holocaust happen? How did people stand by? How did people participate? I see now how easy it is. We all know about the concentration camps at the border, and yet we minimize and justify them at best, defend and praise them at worst.

The Nazis didn’t start with Auschwitz. They started with dehumanizing. Jews weren’t people. We were illegal. We stole jobs and businesses. We were dirty. We were rapists. We were immigrants who didn’t belong. Sound familiar?

We aren’t shooting, gassing, starving or overworking immigrants at the border. But we don’t give them soap or water, or a place to sleep that isn’t an overcrowded concrete room with the lights on all night. They don’t have adequate access to doctors or medicine. (Many people in Nazi concentration camps died from disease and overcrowding. Anne Frank and her sister died from typhus.)

And now justify sitting idly by, as we advance our concentration camps. We all like to think we would have spoken up; we would have attempted to stop the Nazis. But by sitting here, we prove we wouldn’t have. We would minimize and justify them at best, defend and praise them at worst.

Call them concentration camps. And end them. Or “never again” will mean nothing.

[Zonkerbl]

Don't use language like "concentration camp", then try to link the Rs to Nazis - it doesn't help get anything done and it focuses us on solving the wrong problems. The problem to focus on is an overall immigration strategy and getting Trump the hell out of the White House. Your approach helps solve neither of those problems, IMO.

Please post your definition of concentration camp (again) and explain to us less intelligent people how these facilities on the S border don't meet that definition.

Might this not be an opportunity to educate by saying (explicitly):

the Nazis didn't invent concentration camps and don't have an historical monopoly on their use.
They are simply the most widely and rightly regarded as (being) the worst offenders that most people
are aware of.

The first Nazi concentration camps were not death camps.

Not enough outraged people calling them out as immoral was a significant factor in their evolution
towards becoming death camps.

Calling them concentration camps is not the same thing as calling all Pubs Nazis.

Wow, guess I have been on my high horse. Sorry!

Look, most of us here want the same thing. We want Trump gone.

I will answer your question and then you can whip me in absentia on this subject.

concentration camp:
a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe in 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.

Political prisoners? - no
Members of a persecuted minority? - no
Inadequate facilities? - yes, but only as an exception (because they were underfunded)
Forced labor or mass execution? - no

I don't think it meets the material definition. And yes, the reason for the language of "concentration camps" is to draw parallels (as Zonk did) to the Nazis and as did the press (for ratings and monetary gain) and as did the Ds for political gain. Flat out.

The D debates were interesting on this. Most of the candidates over the last two nights acknowledged the root cause of the problem being the unrest in Central America. Most said that they didn't have a solution but would call a meeting. None had a solution on what to do with the 100K+ that are coming to the borders each month other than - well, let them in. Even gtn has acknowledged this isn't a long-term solution.

So, I object to the language because when Trump is gone in 2020 and most likely the Rs still have the Senate - it just makes it that much harder to get to a real solution. I also think that it hurts our chances in 2020. The logic of - if you don't agree with me on this topic of concentration camps, then you are a Nazi is eerily similar to the Hillary "deplorable comment".

When I was walking precincts last year for Beto, I feel like those in the middle responded much better to positive than "you stupid idiot - you voted for an R in your lifetime"? message. And we can damn close to winning Texas. And the coattails allowed us to completely take over the Houston government.

My 1/2 cent.

Don't you fricking put words in my mouth you hypocrite. YOU'RE the one immediately jumping to Nazi comparisons, not me. HOW DARE YOU

GO BACK AND READ MY POSTS

JHC you have a lot of nerve.

[Zonkerbl]

I disagree - concentration camps are by definition what happened in Germany. And that's why all this nonsense of labeling them concentration camps gets us moving in the wrong direction. I think this type of labeling is just incredible stupidity to get us to focus on the wrong things.

:facepalm:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/concentration-camps-existed-long-before-Auschwitz-180967049/

"The same year, the British Empire extended internment to its colonies and possessions. The Germans responded with mass arrests of aliens from not only Britain but Australia, Canada, and South Africa as well. Concentration camps soon flourished around the globe: in France, Russia, Turkey, Austro-Hungary, Brazil, Japan, China, India, Haiti, Cuba, Singapore, Siam, New Zealand, and many other locations. Over time, concentration camps would become a tool in the arsenal of nearly every country.

...

By the end of [WWI], more than 800,000 civilians had been held in concentration camps, with hundreds of thousands more forced into exile in remote regions. Mental illness and shattered minority communities were just two of the tolls this long-term internment exacted from detainees.

Nevertheless, this more “civilized” approach toward enemy aliens during the First World War managed to rehabilitate the sullied image of concentration camps. People accepted the notion that a targeted group might turn itself in and be detained during a crisis, with a reasonable expectation to one day be released without permanent harm. Later in the century, this expectation would have tragic consequences."

The whole point of this whole argument is you going "HOW DARE YOU COMPARE MY BELOVED GOP TO THE NAZIS"

1. I DIDN'T - YOU LEAPT TO THAT CONCLUSION
2. THEY'RE STILL CONCENTRATION CAMPS
3. WORDS MATTER - READ THEM - and DON'T put words in my DAMN MOUTH

[Wizardspride]

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[verbal8]

What do people think will happen at Trump's 4th of July pity party?

I think it will end up being a Yuge disappointment for Trump. I wouldn't necessarily see the enthusiasm on the Right for the event, but I don't think it is really there. I think Trump's base is getting a little bored and he doesn't really have a local base to draw from in the middle of DC.

[pancakes3]

i think the administration will be creative with how the barriers are set up to make it look as well-attended as possible. for instance, i heard that they're not doing WH lawn tickets this year, forcing more ppl to be at the mall space for photo ops.

also, tangentially, there's a proud boys rally against "internet censorship" scheduled for Saturday. apparently they tried to book the U. Street Vida pool for a party but was denied, lol.

[Wizardspride]

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[pancakes3]

Joe Scarborough thought that bringing a centrist, adult-in-the-room attitude to Twitter was going to work out for him.

Spoiler:

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Joe thought wrong.

Spoiler:

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And PSA, woke is not a dirty word, nor is it an exclusively Dem descriptor.

[verbal8]

I generally find him irritating, but I will give him credit that he learned from the feedback.

Joe Scarborough thought that bringing a centrist, adult-in-the-room attitude to Twitter was going to work out for him.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Joe thought wrong.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

And PSA, woke is not a dirty word, nor is it an exclusively Dem descriptor.

[queridiculo]

I generally find him irritating, but I will give him credit that he learned from the feedback.

Yeah, well, deleting tweets and acting like it never happened isn't exactly a sign of personal growth.

[TGW]

What do people think will happen at Trump's 4th of July pity party?

I think it will end up being a Yuge disappointment for Trump. I wouldn't necessarily see the enthusiasm on the Right for the event, but I don't think it is really there. I think Trump's base is getting a little bored and he doesn't really have a local base to draw from in the middle of DC.

If that idiot runs tanks down the streets of DC, I'm gonna be pissed. The streets are already jacked up beyond belief; last thing we need are effin' tanks making them worse.

[TGW]

I generally find him irritating, but I will give him credit that he learned from the feedback.

Joe Scarborough thought that bringing a centrist, adult-in-the-room attitude to Twitter was going to work out for him.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Joe thought wrong.

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

And PSA, woke is not a dirty word, nor is it an exclusively Dem descriptor.

I thought this was pretty funny:

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[dobrojim]

The most transparent administration in history.
Too bad their transparency is all about their corrupt motives.