2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 4)

[srhcan]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 22. Wagner still flying under the radar somehow.

Why Wagner is rated #2 and Barnes #3? Both have same EPM. Barnes has better BPM, VORP, WS/48, EFG%, TS% with less USG%. Not to mention Barnes has better PTS, REB, AST, BLK while both have same STL. It is a no-brainer that Barnes should be ranked higher than Wagner. Please change your spreadsheet accordingly. TIA.

[K_chile22]

He does but it's mostly because C Wood is guaranteed a ton of minutes no matter how he plays. Hoping he gets moved at the deadline

It's criminal how he doesn't get 30+ mins on a consistent basis.

Do people really watch houston games or just look at his box stats, he is a 2 edge sword, the reason houston collpased is that Sengun cant rebound against brisett and turner(although they are the better bigs we have in the league).. he will be a favorite matchup against athletic nba wings because they can easily attack his defense. But the other edge of the sword he is good..

Sengun is a good rebounder, he struggled defensively last night but the rebounding was a team wide issue. They were playing Augustine, Brooks and Christopher while the pacers had nothing but 6'6+ guys out there crashing the glass

[nikster]

You mean the NBA hopes Green and Sengun will become the next Murray and Jokic right? Those two have a long way to meet those expectations.

Yeah that's kinda of a funny delusion. Jokic has already won an MVP and carried a team to conference finals. And this guys claiming 2 rookies who have done absolutely nothing will be better for the league

Just talking about potential...Jokic is the ultimate ceiling for Sengun while Jalen potential could be the Bubble version of Murray

well the phrasing was poor. You made it seem like Jokic/Murray are a disappointment and that you think theres a realistic chance of these young guys at becoming a better duo

[HiRez]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 22. Wagner still flying under the radar somehow.

Why Wagner is rated #2 and Barnes #3? Both have same EPM. Barnes has better BPM, VORP, WS/48, EFG%, TS% with less USG%. Not to mention Barnes has better PTS, REB, AST, BLK while both have same STL. It is a no-brainer that Barnes should be ranked higher than Wagner. Please change your spreadsheet accordingly. TIA.

I'll look into breaking ties with other stats, but it's 2 vs. 3, it hardly makes a difference and will likely change in a few days anyway. And you can't really just use counting stats, that's why we use advanced stats in the first place, to tease out things that might not be apparent in the box score numbers. EPM is a very good one as far as all-in-one advanced stats go (none of them are infallible of course), and says that that Wagner and Barnes have a similar overall impact at this time.

[AaronB]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 22. Wagner still flying under the radar somehow.

Why Wagner is rated #2 and Barnes #3? Both have same EPM. Barnes has better BPM, VORP, WS/48, EFG%, TS% with less USG%. Not to mention Barnes has better PTS, REB, AST, BLK while both have same STL. It is a no-brainer that Barnes should be ranked higher than Wagner. Please change your spreadsheet accordingly. TIA.

I do not believe that this is a spreadsheet. I have seen this online at an advanced stat website some place.

All advanced stats are good and bad. This one is just different.

Barnes may be having a better season, Wagner may be having a better season.

Both are having great seasons for rookies and frankly, both have surprised me.

When I saw both of their videos, I thought Barnes was extremely raw and Wagner was extremely limited.

Both have shown that assessment to either be wrong, or they have just matured their games in a remarkably short period of time.

[basketballRob]

Only two rookies in the last 22 years have averaged 20 PPG.

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[MoMan24]

Only two rookies in the last 22 years have averaged 20 PPG.

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Luka, Carmelo and LeBron? That's 3 doe.

[Kurtz]

Only two rookies in the last 22 years have averaged 20 PPG.

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Zion, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid, Griffin, Tyreke Evans, KD, Melo, Lebron, Brand.

[basketballRob]

Only two rookies in the last 22 years have averaged 20 PPG.

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Zion, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid, Griffin, Tyreke Evans, KD, Melo, Lebron, Brand.

You're right, I googled it and didn't realize the stat I looked at included 10 RPG.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/who-was-the-last-nba-rookie-to-average-at-least-20-points-per-game-and-at-least-10-rebounds-per-game

[HiRez]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 23.

Added tie-breaking sorting in the order of EPM > BPM > VORP > WS/48.

[zaymon]

Suggs is definitely looking a little more like Stuckey than Chauncey.. lol jk

I think his shot starts dropping and everything else opens up for him and confidence goes up. Defense is as advertised. Just a matter of time. He was never a sensational playmaker in college, but he can draw a double and make the open pass.

While both are combo guards with somewhat limited point guard skills, Stuckey was good athlete with bad first step and bad motor while Suggs is great athlete with great first step and great motor.
Smart, Caruso, Holiday are better comparisons imo.

[reamily]

Yeah that's kinda of a funny delusion. Jokic has already won an MVP and carried a team to conference finals. And this guys claiming 2 rookies who have done absolutely nothing will be better for the league

Just talking about potential...Jokic is the ultimate ceiling for Sengun while Jalen potential could be the Bubble version of Murray

well the phrasing was poor. You made it seem like Jokic/Murray are a disappointment and that you think theres a realistic chance of these young guys at becoming a better duo

Somehow yes, Jokic was a huge success but jokic murray duo was a letdown except for that magical bubble run..

[srhcan]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 23.

Added tie-breaking sorting in the order of EPM > BPM > VORP > WS/48.

Thanks. It looks much better now.

[hippesthippo]

Suggs is definitely looking a little more like Stuckey than Chauncey.. lol jk

I think his shot starts dropping and everything else opens up for him and confidence goes up. Defense is as advertised. Just a matter of time. He was never a sensational playmaker in college, but he can draw a double and make the open pass.

While both are combo guards with somewhat limited point guard skills, Stuckey was good athlete with bad first step and bad motor while Suggs is great athlete with great first step and great motor.
Smart, Caruso, Holiday are better comparisons imo.

Suggs has way better touch than Smart. Stuckey had a good enough first step when he started in the league. Suggs absolutely has better touch than Stuckey who would routinely slam layups off the backboard and out of bounds.

[everdiso]

Rookie Tracker through Dec. 22. Wagner still flying under the radar somehow.

Why Wagner is rated #2 and Barnes #3? Both have same EPM. Barnes has better BPM, VORP, WS/48, EFG%, TS% with less USG%. Not to mention Barnes has better PTS, REB, AST, BLK while both have same STL. It is a no-brainer that Barnes should be ranked higher than Wagner. Please change your spreadsheet accordingly. TIA.

I'll look into breaking ties with other stats, but it's 2 vs. 3, it hardly makes a difference and will likely change in a few days anyway. And you can't really just use counting stats, that's why we use advanced stats in the first place, to tease out things that might not be apparent in the box score numbers. EPM is a very good one as far as all-in-one advanced stats go (none of them are infallible of course), and says that that Wagner and Barnes have a similar overall impact at this time.

Imo if you're using purely advanced stats to rank then you have to use minutes as the tie breaker.

The advanced stats always mean more in a bigger role than in a smaller role.

[basketballRob]

Why Wagner is rated #2 and Barnes #3? Both have same EPM. Barnes has better BPM, VORP, WS/48, EFG%, TS% with less USG%. Not to mention Barnes has better PTS, REB, AST, BLK while both have same STL. It is a no-brainer that Barnes should be ranked higher than Wagner. Please change your spreadsheet accordingly. TIA.

I'll look into breaking ties with other stats, but it's 2 vs. 3, it hardly makes a difference and will likely change in a few days anyway. And you can't really just use counting stats, that's why we use advanced stats in the first place, to tease out things that might not be apparent in the box score numbers. EPM is a very good one as far as all-in-one advanced stats go (none of them are infallible of course), and says that that Wagner and Barnes have a similar overall impact at this time.

Imo if you're using purely advanced stats to rank then you have to use minutes as the tie breaker.

The advanced stats always mean more in a bigger role than in a smaller role.

Franz has played way more minutes because he hasn't missed any games.

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[everdiso]

I'll look into breaking ties with other stats, but it's 2 vs. 3, it hardly makes a difference and will likely change in a few days anyway. And you can't really just use counting stats, that's why we use advanced stats in the first place, to tease out things that might not be apparent in the box score numbers. EPM is a very good one as far as all-in-one advanced stats go (none of them are infallible of course), and says that that Wagner and Barnes have a similar overall impact at this time.

Imo if you're using purely advanced stats to rank then you have to use minutes as the tie breaker.

The advanced stats always mean more in a bigger role than in a smaller role.

Franz has played way more minutes because he hasn't missed any games.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Minutes per game, not total minutes.

It's about role. Much easier to put up better advanced stats in a smaller role.

[basketballRob]

Slow couple of days for the rookies.

[DaGawd]

Watch on YouTube

Thibs starting to let the rooks cook a lil bit. Can’t wait until McBride gets back.. Grimes shows flashes of why he was a projected lotto pick last year headed in to Kansas

[oldshoolballer]

Watch on YouTube

Thibs starting to let the rooks cook a lil bit. Can’t wait until McBride gets back.. Grimes shows flashes of why he was a projected lotto pick last year headed in to Kansas

What a picture perfect jumper. Just a beautiful shot. I'm impressed by his defense as well.