2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3241 » by Pillendreher » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:08 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I’m just over it all. I’m not going to jump on another teams bandwagon or refuse to watch them. I watched last nights game but turned the sound down and watched YouTube videos at the same time for my vacation. It’s more interesting to follow the team on here than to watch them.

It’s time for a level of change we haven’t seen thus far in okc. That’s the only thing that will get me excited. I don’t care if they traded Raymond Felton for Bradley Beal. More is needed and I’m not buying in to this core anymore.


http://www.espn.com/blog/okc-thunder/post/_/id/490/why-the-thunder-failed-to-evolve

If you need something to read. Don't forget to check the date.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3242 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:21 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m just over it all. I’m not going to jump on another teams bandwagon or refuse to watch them. I watched last nights game but turned the sound down and watched YouTube videos at the same time for my vacation. It’s more interesting to follow the team on here than to watch them.

It’s time for a level of change we haven’t seen thus far in okc. That’s the only thing that will get me excited. I don’t care if they traded Raymond Felton for Bradley Beal. More is needed and I’m not buying in to this core anymore.


http://www.espn.com/blog/okc-thunder/post/_/id/490/why-the-thunder-failed-to-evolve

If you need something to read. Don't forget to check the date.

Maybe he can reuse that article soon and switch Durant’s name to George and Brooks and Dononvans names to Dononvan and Jason Kidd.

Also although I’m sure espn had him on assignment it was strange to see Royce tweeting and covering the blazers last night. I know he’s done other teams games before but it almost felt like last night it was a matter of him and espn saying OKC doesn’t deserve to have a guy specifically cover their garbage version of basketball.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3243 » by Pillendreher » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:24 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:I’m just over it all. I’m not going to jump on another teams bandwagon or refuse to watch them. I watched last nights game but turned the sound down and watched YouTube videos at the same time for my vacation. It’s more interesting to follow the team on here than to watch them.

It’s time for a level of change we haven’t seen thus far in okc. That’s the only thing that will get me excited. I don’t care if they traded Raymond Felton for Bradley Beal. More is needed and I’m not buying in to this core anymore.


http://www.espn.com/blog/okc-thunder/post/_/id/490/why-the-thunder-failed-to-evolve

If you need something to read. Don't forget to check the date.

Maybe he can reuse that article soon and switch Durant’s name to George and Brooks and Dononvans names to Dononvan and Jason Kidd.


Presti would love that. Triple Double Coach + Triple Double Player. I can already see the press release:

"The Thunder are surrounding Russell Westbrook with two of the greatest point guards ever in Mo Cheeks and Jason Kidd"
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3244 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:29 pm

I appreciate Horne’s honesty-

Erik Horne (Oklahoman) with an honest observation after the meltdown in Memphis: “Turns out, this Thunder team isn’t really better than any of the previous two iterations, because of a deeper Western Conference and some fundamental flaws, which means you have to ask serious questions about the common denominators of Russell Westbrook (which the team was built around, whose mentality they’ve gone all-in with and who is due $168.7 million over the next four seasons but is dwindling in offensive efficiency), Donovan (who can’t seem to squeeze any consistency or night-to-night urgency out of the group. Forget depth and rotations. Despite their stellar net ratings which were frontloaded by soft competition early in the season, the first six players can’t string consistent performances together post-All-Star break), and Sam Presti (who has done some miracle work post-Kevin Durant, but still has constructed a team devoid of the common component of modern NBA offense – consistent shooters and floor spacers). Not to say that any of the aforementioned things are easy to accomplish, but it’s the cold, hard truth of what this team lacks in an increasingly-difficult Western Conference.”
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3245 » by Pillendreher » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:21 pm

Read on Twitter


This is what it looks like when a team is coached. Doing something that goes beyond "Westbrook, George, Schröder or Grant iso while you stand around; maybe they will get you the ball, maybe they won't"
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3246 » by SecondTake » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:08 pm

Dadouv47 wrote:Still think upsetting Denver in the first round would be the best case scenario (then playing against Houston in the second round)


Nah, upsetting the Warriors in the first round would be the best case scenario. Get the finals over with fast, the rest would look easy.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3247 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:22 pm

ThunderBolt wrote:I appreciate Horne’s honesty-

Erik Horne (Oklahoman) with an honest observation after the meltdown in Memphis: “Turns out, this Thunder team isn’t really better than any of the previous two iterations, because of a deeper Western Conference and some fundamental flaws, which means you have to ask serious questions about the common denominators of Russell Westbrook (which the team was built around, whose mentality they’ve gone all-in with and who is due $168.7 million over the next four seasons but is dwindling in offensive efficiency), Donovan (who can’t seem to squeeze any consistency or night-to-night urgency out of the group. Forget depth and rotations. Despite their stellar net ratings which were frontloaded by soft competition early in the season, the first six players can’t string consistent performances together post-All-Star break), and Sam Presti (who has done some miracle work post-Kevin Durant, but still has constructed a team devoid of the common component of modern NBA offense – consistent shooters and floor spacers). Not to say that any of the aforementioned things are easy to accomplish, but it’s the cold, hard truth of what this team lacks in an increasingly-difficult Western Conference.”


The thing that bugs me about this kind of comment is that it's full of "Well, this is it". This is not "it", that's the damn point. This kind of "resignation" is just making excuses for the people in charge.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3248 » by Dadouv47 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:04 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
ThunderBolt wrote:I appreciate Horne’s honesty-

Erik Horne (Oklahoman) with an honest observation after the meltdown in Memphis: “Turns out, this Thunder team isn’t really better than any of the previous two iterations, because of a deeper Western Conference and some fundamental flaws, which means you have to ask serious questions about the common denominators of Russell Westbrook (which the team was built around, whose mentality they’ve gone all-in with and who is due $168.7 million over the next four seasons but is dwindling in offensive efficiency), Donovan (who can’t seem to squeeze any consistency or night-to-night urgency out of the group. Forget depth and rotations. Despite their stellar net ratings which were frontloaded by soft competition early in the season, the first six players can’t string consistent performances together post-All-Star break), and Sam Presti (who has done some miracle work post-Kevin Durant, but still has constructed a team devoid of the common component of modern NBA offense – consistent shooters and floor spacers). Not to say that any of the aforementioned things are easy to accomplish, but it’s the cold, hard truth of what this team lacks in an increasingly-difficult Western Conference.”


The thing that bugs me about this kind of comment is that it's full of "Well, this is it". This is not "it", that's the damn point. This kind of "resignation" is just making excuses for the people in charge.


Agree. No reason for struggling so much now while we were really good until the All star break. We are not good enough to beat Golden State and we don't have enough depth but we should be able to compete against any other team.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3249 » by RalphSampsonJr » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:13 pm

Just imagine if PG didnt have that crazy MVP worthy run.. the thunder might of been seriously competing with the kings for that last playoff spot
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3250 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:23 pm

With all the doubt , criticism, panic, etc., i think its important to lool around the league and realize.....okc, and most other playoff teams, seem more concerned about entering the playoffs healthy, and not seeding. Good teams are losing to bad teams, sometimes badly, all over the place. Home court is not as big a deal now, since games are higher scoring and winning on the road can be as simple as getting hot from 3 on a given night.

Bring on the playoffs!
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3251 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:59 pm

RalphSampsonJr wrote:Just imagine if PG didnt have that crazy MVP worthy run.. the thunder might of been seriously competing with the kings for that last playoff spot


Which is all you need to know about our coaching staff. I'm just so damn weary of it all. Other teams get the most out of their roster. We are experts in getting nothing out of it. Year after year after year. I can't take this anymore. A franchise with this kind of investment and talent on the roster should not have this kind of effect on its fans every damn season. Nothing changes. Nothing.

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"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3252 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:10 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:okc, and most other playoff teams, seem more concerned about entering the playoffs healthy, and not seeding.


Yes, that's why the Thunder have won 6 out of 18 games while the Clippers, Rockets, Trailblazers, Jazz, Nuggets and Spurs are No 1, 2, 3 5, 6 and 8 in winning % since Valentine's day. It's like other teams play well while we play like turds. Thank God none of it matters! That was close!

hardenASG13 wrote:Good teams are losing to bad teams, sometimes badly, all over the place.


Whatever helps to keep you happy.

hardenASG13 wrote:Home court is not as big a deal now, since games are higher scoring and winning on the road can be as simple as getting hot from 3 on a given night.


Yes, it really is that simple.

Good grief. :roll:
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3253 » by slick_watts » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:07 pm

The decline of Russell Westbrook, and how it has contributed to the Thunder decline.

Lets look at it from a factor level. Here is how the Thunder look this year compared to last on the four factors, relative to league averages:

eFG%

2017-18: -.0071
2018-19: -.0106

ORB%

2017-18: +5.4%
2018-19: +2.7%

FT/FGA

2017-18: +.004
2018-19: -.006

TOV% is about even across both seasons and has not changed considerably. These relative numbers don't seem like much, but it represents a dropoff from 17th to 23rd, 1st (by a mile) to 3rd, and 14th to 18th respectively.

Guess who has had considerable dropoff in all three categories individually this season? That's right, Russell Westbrook. but how much have his dropoffs contributed to the overall team dropoffs on these factors? I did the calculations on this using an excel sheet with team + Westbrook numbers, and adjusted Westbrook's numbers this year back to last season's numbers to see how that would affect each factor. Here are the results.

eFG%: -.0024 of the dropoff attributable to Westbrook.
ORB%: -.923 of the dropoff attributable to Westbrook.
FT/FGA: .008 of the dropoff attributable to Westbrook.

To put this another way, Westbrook's individual dropoff on these factors alone account for the following percentage of the team's dropoff:

eFG%: 67.9%
ORB%: 34.2%
FT/FGA: 85.1%

Were Westbrook shooting, offensive rebounding, and drawing fouls / converting free throws like he was last season (which, in 2 of those 3 categories he had -already- dropped off last year), the Thunder offense would probably be a lot closer to Top 10 instead of being on the door step of Bottom 10.

There are other contributors to the offense's troubles. The weakest Thunder bench offensively in the last 10 years is definitely one of them. Maybe coaching is another. but looking at Westbrook's decline this year, you can safely attribute at least half of the team's dropoff on offense to him alone. And this doesn't even take into account other things such as Westbrook having his lowest assist productivity (a/100 possessions) since 2012, or the effect Westbrook's poor shooting has had on how defenses play against the pick and roll.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3254 » by hardenASG13 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:44 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:okc, and most other playoff teams, seem more concerned about entering the playoffs healthy, and not seeding.


Yes, that's why the Thunder have won 6 out of 18 games while the Clippers, Rockets, Trailblazers, Jazz, Nuggets and Spurs are No 1, 2, 3 5, 6 and 8 in winning % since Valentine's day. It's like other teams play well while we play like turds. Thank God none of it matters! That was close!

hardenASG13 wrote:Good teams are losing to bad teams, sometimes badly, all over the place.


Whatever helps to keep you happy.

hardenASG13 wrote:Home court is not as big a deal now, since games are higher scoring and winning on the road can be as simple as getting hot from 3 on a given night.


Yes, it really is that simple.

Good grief. :roll:



Whatever man, wallow in your misery. Do you think any of the teams you listed have more than a 50/50 chance vs. Okc in a series? They aren't separated by much at all.....
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3255 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:35 pm

hardenASG13 wrote:Whatever man, wallow in your misery. Do you think any of the teams you listed have more than a 50/50 chance vs. Okc in a series?


Yes, I do. This team has looked like complete and utter garbage vs every team, no matter the opposing level. Give them a series vs Orlando and it propably goes to 6 right now. Every other team save for the Warriors, who have absolutely have nothing to prove, is in excellent shape while we are spiralling. This team is nowhere close to being able to "coast" this close to the postseason. The Playoffs start in 2.5 weeks and we're out there playing like some trash team that knows the season is over in just 2.5 weeks and has nothing to play for anymore. Horrible. Just horrible.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3256 » by QPR » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:11 pm

I get the feeling the players share the arrogance of hardenASG13 in that they will be able to just flick a switch come playoff time.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3257 » by Pillendreher » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:41 pm

QPR wrote:I get the feeling the players share the arrogance of hardenASG13 in that they will be able to just flick a switch come playoff time.


I don't understand that at all though. Look at their defensive output through the first 38 games (relative to the opposing team's regular season offense):

Image

38 games and opposing teams managed to outperform their average offensive output four times. Four out of 38! That takes the kind of commitment you need to be among the best teams in the league. Where on earth did that go? We literally went from historically great to below league average as if some supernatural force flipped a switch.

Our "collapses" and meltdowns are so extreme and so sudden, there has to be some deeper cause for this than just simple variance and lack of focus during a 82 game season.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3258 » by Bergmaniac » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:00 pm

You are 29th in ORTG since the All-star break, and that's despite a bunch of teams doing their best to tank. I don't get why anyone would feel optimistic at this point about OKC's playoff chances.
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3259 » by hardenASG13 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:52 am

Pillendreher wrote:
hardenASG13 wrote:Whatever man, wallow in your misery. Do you think any of the teams you listed have more than a 50/50 chance vs. Okc in a series?


Yes, I do. This team has looked like complete and utter garbage vs every team, no matter the opposing level. Give them a series vs Orlando and it propably goes to 6 right now. Every other team save for the Warriors, who have absolutely have nothing to prove, is in excellent shape while we are spiralling. This team is nowhere close to being able to "coast" this close to the postseason. The Playoffs start in 2.5 weeks and we're out there playing like some trash team that knows the season is over in just 2.5 weeks and has nothing to play for anymore. Horrible. Just horrible.


Ok name the team then....which one definitively has more than a 50/50 chance against okc in a series, and why? OKC is 3 games out of the 3 seed, and if you look at their schedule, they could easily win out from here. Note: Damian lillard, who plays for Portland, one of the teams you listelisted, has been quoted saying they should rest McCollum until the playoffs, as that's really all that matters. Said it before the nurkic injury. They openly don't care about the rest of the RS.

Also, did you see the game last night? What swung it? They got hot from 3, for a quarter. It can be that simple.

It was great to see Adams get called out by the national broadcasters as well, as they echoed the same things I've been saying about him. They are true too, he cant be a passive player and expect the ball, especially with how limited he is. He needs to aggressively get to his spots, every night, not just 1 in 5 games. People will find him then.

He makes too much money to no show whenever he pleases. Van Gundy was dead on saying people take a blind eye to his inconsistency for what he makes because he's got the accent, the ponytail, sense of humor, etc. That couldn't be more clear with some on this board, as some get offended at any mention of his flaws (although that number is finally decreasing).

They pay Russ and George the max, and a third guy 25 mill a year! That guy is Adams! This team is extremely dependent on their stars, and has sacrificed adding depth at the expense of them. Adams needs way more nights like last night, when he was way more aggressive getting the ball, as for what he is paid it should be closer to the norm for him instead of an outlier performance. It's fair to expect that. Any less is unacceptable, and very problematic for the team, considering what he makes. Yet you want to harp on grant (who just keeps getting better and better) and Schroeder, who despite people wanting to put the word in quotes, is a weapon off the bench and can take over games (and win a playoff game or 2 in a series) when he is on :crazy:
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Re: 2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope 

Post#3260 » by hardenASG13 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:16 am

QPR wrote:I get the feeling the players share the arrogance of hardenASG13 in that they will be able to just flick a switch come playoff time.



Or maybe they want to enter the post season healthy, since they already have clinched playoffs and there is minimal separation between #2 (most of Denver has never played in a playoff game. What's the last team you can think of that made a deep run their first time in the playoffs?) and number 7. Agree they need to avoid #8 to avoid GS, and I think they will. Look at the rest of this homestand, if they win tomorrow they should sweep it.

You would prefer they went all out the last month and a half to secure home court for 1 playoff series? They are rightfully confident they can win a road playoff game. It is all about playoff performance, and playoffs are completely different. Would you feel any different if they were the 3 seed, beat the clippers for example in round 1, then lost in the second round to Denver, than if they lost to Denver in round 1 as a 7 seed? I wouldn't. The team has higher expectations than winning as a higher seed in the first round before inevitably running into a GSW or houston. Those are the teams they know they will have to beat to accomplish anything significant. Who cares when they play them?

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