Luka Doncic Part III

daoneandonly · Post #3301 » by **daoneandonly** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:46 am

Johnny Firpo wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:Clearly, I'm pulling for Luka, hoping he can deliver an exciting and fun basketball season for us mavs fans

He will, you'll be happy to be proven wrong, he has a very high floor.

One of the rare instances where I would be soo happy to be wrong, I'd dance

Johnny Firpo · Post #3302 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:20 pm

daoneandonly wrote:One of the rare instances where I would be soo happy to be wrong, I'd dance

If we can get a good lob target for him, I wouldn't be shocked if he's is close to Simmons both in terms of raw averages and impact. We'll see I guess, but even if he is a level below that, that's still solid for a first year. I would be okay with 13/6/5 on 43/35/80 averages for his rookie year.

batigol18 · Post #3303 » by **batigol18** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:34 am

Read on Twitter

batigol18 · Post #3304 » by **batigol18** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:59 am

Watch on YouTube

Oscar9992 · Post #3305 » by **Oscar9992** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:48 am

Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

thr3ep01nte4 · Post #3306 » by **thr3ep01nte4** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:44 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:If we can get a good lob target for him, I wouldn't be shocked if he's is close to Simmons both in terms of raw averages and impact. We'll see I guess, but even if he is a level below that, that's still solid for a first year. I would be okay with 13/6/5 on 43/35/80 averages for his rookie year.

His defense is not as good. However, he's a much better shooter.

Johnny Firpo · Post #3307 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:53 pm

Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

That's a very small sample size though, and he was dead tired by the end of the season.

wolfram · Post #3308 » by **wolfram** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:07 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

That's a very small sample size though, and he was dead tired by the end of the season.

Those 2 games were high pressure games, not really an example what he can do in the regular season. But you should notice he has high impact on the game. Defense is highly concentrated on him. His playmaking, effort on both sides of the court, rebounding, passing... is what he contributed to winning. You could watch regular season game against Olympiacos where he put 33 points (dominated) but they lost in the end... So it depends what you expect from him. Too me he played smart not forcing too much. And yes, he looked tired, not fresh as he was in the beginning of the season.

J_T · Post #3309 » by **J_T** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:18 pm

wolfram wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

That's a very small sample size though, and he was dead tired by the end of the season.

Those 2 games were high pressure games, not really an example what he can do in the regular season. But you should notice he has high impact on the game. Defense is highly concentrated on him. His playmaking, effort on both sides of the court, rebounding, passing... is what he contributed to winning. You could watch regular season game against Olympiacos where he put 33 points (dominated) but they lost in the end... So it depends what you expect from him. Too me he played smart not forcing too much. And yes, he looked tired, not fresh as he was in the beginning of the season.

Yeah, he played smart, calm, he played to win. No time for dominating, Euro Final 4 is not a place that's made for anyone dominating.

Archx · Post #3310 » by **Archx** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:30 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
daoneandonly wrote:One of the rare instances where I would be soo happy to be wrong, I'd dance

If we can get a good lob target for him, I wouldn't be shocked if he's is close to Simmons both in terms of raw averages and impact. We'll see I guess, but even if he is a level below that, that's still solid for a first year. I would be okay with 13/6/5 on 43/35/80 averages for his rookie year.

Finally someone with realistic expectations

wolfram wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

That's a very small sample size though, and he was dead tired by the end of the season.

Those 2 games were high pressure games, not really an example what he can do in the regular season. But you should notice he has high impact on the game. Defense is highly concentrated on him. His playmaking, effort on both sides of the court, rebounding, passing... is what he contributed to winning. You could watch regular season game against Olympiacos where he put 33 points (dominated) but they lost in the end... So it depends what you expect from him. Too me he played smart not forcing too much. And yes, he looked tired, not fresh as he was in the beginning of the season.

Also what previous posters didn't mention. Fener has the best coach in the Euroleague. He is a legend and a very defensive minded coach aswell. If you watched closely you could see how they pressured Luka through the whole game, even switched multiple defenders on him. At times it looked like 2-3 or even 4 guys were focused on him and they clocked the lane if he wanted to drive to the basket. It is true that he didn't play special and basically centers won that game for Real Madrid, but he orchestrated that game brilliantly for a 19yo.

I don't agree that he is a better rebounder either. Scouts, GM's said that his passing vision and feel for the game is similar to Nash. And we all know who Steve Nash was, so i think it will be fun to watch what he can do with much better players around him.

lambchop · Post #3311 » by **lambchop** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:59 pm

wolfram wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

That's a very small sample size though, and he was dead tired by the end of the season.

Those 2 games were high pressure games, not really an example what he can do in the regular season. But you should notice he has high impact on the game. Defense is highly concentrated on him. His playmaking, effort on both sides of the court, rebounding, passing... is what he contributed to winning. You could watch regular season game against Olympiacos where he put 33 points (dominated) but they lost in the end... So it depends what you expect from him. Too me he played smart not forcing too much. And yes, he looked tired, not fresh as he was in the beginning of the season.

he simply wasn't in shape. His body is still more of an average joe's body. The mavs will handle that with the right nutrition and conditioning regimen. Don't forget this dude was living with his parents so it's likely he was eating a lot of "good stuff" every day. Give him 3 to 4 years and he'll look like a real pro

Nikson · Post #3312 » by **Nikson** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:31 pm

He will look like real pro this november.
In 4 years he will be monstrous!

Oscar9992 · Post #3313 » by **Oscar9992** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:43 pm

lambchop wrote:he simply wasn't in shape. His body is still more of an average joe's body. The mavs will handle that with the right nutrition and conditioning regimen. Don't forget this dude was living with his parents so it's likely he was eating a lot of "good stuff" every day. Give him 3 to 4 years and he'll look like a real pro

I am not sure but I think he hasn't been living with his parents since 2012 when he left his country Slovenia to join Real Madrid in Spain.

lambchop · Post #3314 » by **lambchop** » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:49 pm

Oscar9992 wrote:
lambchop wrote:he simply wasn't in shape. His body is still more of an average joe's body. The mavs will handle that with the right nutrition and conditioning regimen. Don't forget this dude was living with his parents so it's likely he was eating a lot of "good stuff" every day. Give him 3 to 4 years and he'll look like a real pro

I am not sure but I think he hasn't been living with his parents since 2012 when he left his country Slovenia to join Real Madrid in Spain.

Two years ago his mom moved to madrid to be with him. So I'm sure his nutrition has been healthy but not exactly good for elite basketball performance.
The mavs, dirk etc. will handle that, since that's what separates players too

burek3 · Post #3315 » by **burek3** » Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:55 am

https://youtu.be/w3hJsKA3_ok?t=840

"Legit 6-9 when i stood next to him", Dirk says. Finally an end to the height saga

J_T · Post #3316 » by **J_T** » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:13 pm

SportsGuy8 · Post #3317 » by **SportsGuy8** » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:42 pm

Dirk obviously shrank due to old age, so his height perceptions are all skewed.

BostonCouchGM · Post #3318 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:35 am

Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

agreed. People blame it on him being tired but it had as much to do with a higher level of competition and more attention being given to him. Something that pales in comparison to the ultra athletic wings he'll be facing in the NBA. I don't just think he's overrated, I think it's going to be jarring just how much once we see him playing regular season games. It's not to say he won't eventually be a contributor but he's 19 y/o, can't really shoot well from deep, can't put the ball on the deck well enough to get past NBA defenders and cannot guard anyone. Why are people expecting him to be ROTY and take the league by storm? And remember, when the Mavs are almost dead last in the standings, their lottery pick is likely going to the Hawks. Doncic basically needs to be generational for it to warrant two lottery picks.

XTraderXL · Post #3319 » by **XTraderXL** » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:38 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:
Oscar9992 wrote:Just rewatched Euroleague Finals... I wasn't impressed as he wasn't that dominant at all. He is not ball dominant player even though he listed as PG.

He is also better as a rebounder than as a passer.

agreed. People blame it on him being tired but it had as much to do with a higher level of competition and more attention being given to him. Something that pales in comparison to the ultra athletic wings he'll be facing in the NBA. I don't just think he's overrated, I think it's going to be jarring just how much once we see him playing regular season games. It's not to say he won't eventually be a contributor but he's 19 y/o, can't really shoot well from deep, can't put the ball on the deck well enough to get past NBA defenders and cannot guard anyone. Why are people expecting him to be ROTY and take the league by storm? And remember, when the Mavs are almost dead last in the standings, their lottery pick is likely going to the Hawks. Doncic basically needs to be generational for it to warrant two lottery picks.

You obviously havent watched the whole season. He played the same teams earlier in the season and dominated them but second part of the season he played much worse and was out of shape. Playing Fener in February and in May is the same level of competition and you have to know that EL is not like NBA, in EL the regular season games are actually competitive and they count for something. Of course in F4 the teams are even more focused but the difference is not as huge as NBA regular season games and the playoffs.

And if thats not good enough for you, how do you explain playing ACB teams with clearly inferior talent in early part of the season looking like LBJ and playing them in the second half in the season looking very average? Did those teams improve that much? It was clear to everyone who was watching that he was completely out of shape which started to show in late January/early February. His performances dropped off around that time, he started having minor injusries which he hasnt had before, was sick a couple of times and thats all because there was just too much put on him earlier in the season when half of the team was injured. He hasnt had any real time off since summer of 2016 and it all caught up to him. I actually called it at the end of December, predicted an injury in the next 2 weeks a week before it happened and this was not hard to do if you know what you are watching.

I think this was actually a great experience for him because now he knows he has to take better care of his body, needs to work more on his fitness and not to eat crappy food in Mexican restaurants and drink Cola every day if he wants to stay in shape during the whole season. His body not looking great was my criticism of him even before the Eurobasket.

And regarding his shot, you really dont know what you are talking about. You will be surprised how well he can shoot from deep. You seem to be one of those people who watch a couple of games, looks at the stats and make conclusions based on very limited info. Maybe I am wrong and you were following his career closely but in that case your knowledge of basketball is just very poor.

3baller9 · Post #3320 » by **3baller9** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:42 pm

XTraderXL wrote:I think this was actually a great experience for him because now he knows he has to take better care of his body, needs to work more on his fitness and not to eat crappy food in Mexican restaurants and drink Cola every day if he wants to stay in shape during the whole season. His body not looking great was my criticism of him even before the Eurobasket.

One of his friends and his teammate on Slovenian NT told me that Luka went to fitness exactly one time this past season (he thought it affected his shooting). His trening was also meh. If he commits to transforming his body he very well could end up as the best European player of all time.