2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[BIGJ1ER]

So I've seen maybe half a dozen former players on Twitter applauding Paul for "sticking it to analytics" by hitting so many midrange jumpers against the nuggets. It boggles my mind how a concept so simple as "analytically there's nothing wrong with Paul taking midrange jumpers because he's an elite midrange shooter" is lost on them.

Like this isn't some complicated all in one stat with a formula that's hard to explain. Good midrange shooters should take those shots and most players aren't good enough to shoot them on volume. On top of that, they'd have you think the 3 level scorer doesn't exist anymore. Yes, players take more 3s but outside of harden the best volume scorers who can shoot still take midrange shots.

Now, I have no involvement with youth basketball, so I don't know exactly what they're teaching kids these days. I can't imagine they're going straight to 3s, especially at an age where that's just too far away. And you still have to learn to shoot free throws. It'd be odd to not practice any jumpers in that range.

So yeah, semi-rant over. As a logical person I just can't take the pushback by these guys when the simple info is right in front of them.

I agree, over and over you see former players (for example jamal crawford), pundits and media members who don't like analytics seemingly bragging at the fact that cp3, KD, kawhi are all making a living in the midrange and are seemingly sticking it to the analytics movement in their perspective, when in reality they're completely misinterpreting what analytics are saying/providing.

"The midrange is the worst shot in basketball" is parroted over and over in a tone of mockery by these people, when "analytics" isn't saying that at all, at least when you contextualise it.

[bondom34]

Thinking the worst part of "analytics" is the misuse of the word analytics and its framing as some bogeyman for a part of the game someone wants to argue against at a particular time.

[Clyde Frazier]

So I've seen maybe half a dozen former players on Twitter applauding Paul for "sticking it to analytics" by hitting so many midrange jumpers against the nuggets. It boggles my mind how a concept so simple as "analytically there's nothing wrong with Paul taking midrange jumpers because he's an elite midrange shooter" is lost on them.

Like this isn't some complicated all in one stat with a formula that's hard to explain. Good midrange shooters should take those shots and most players aren't good enough to shoot them on volume. On top of that, they'd have you think the 3 level scorer doesn't exist anymore. Yes, players take more 3s but outside of harden the best volume scorers who can shoot still take midrange shots.

Now, I have no involvement with youth basketball, so I don't know exactly what they're teaching kids these days. I can't imagine they're going straight to 3s, especially at an age where that's just too far away. And you still have to learn to shoot free throws. It'd be odd to not practice any jumpers in that range.

So yeah, semi-rant over. As a logical person I just can't take the pushback by these guys when the simple info is right in front of them.

I agree, over and over you see former players (for example jamal crawford), pundits and media members who don't like analytics seemingly bragging at the fact that cp3, KD, kawhi are all making a living in the midrange and are seemingly sticking it to the analytics movement in their perspective, when in reality they're completely misinterpreting what analytics are saying/providing.

"The midrange is the worst shot in basketball" is parroted over and over in a tone of mockery by these people, when "analytics" isn't saying that at all, at least when you contextualise it.

Not to mention it's not even "the midrange shot" that's the worst shot in basketball, it's the long 2 a few steps inside the 3PT line. Those weren't the shots Paul was taking.

[Goudelock]

I can't even begin to fathom the historical rewriting that's going to take place if the Suns win the Finals as it pertains to Chris Paul's legacy. It's going to be like what happened to Dirk Nowitzki but on steroids.

[Goudelock]

I don't know what kind of come to Jesus conversation someone had with Giannis and/or Budenholzer, but I'm loving how they're utilizing him in this game. Everything is near the elbow, and the few times he's at the 3pt line, they're dribble hand-offing into a teammate's jumpshot.

Nets offense also looks like ass lmfao

[MisterHibachi]

Khris Middleton is probably in the all time First Team All Sweat, along with KG and Patrick Ewing.

[MO12msu]

Harden is providing nothing of value.

[MisterHibachi]

Harden is providing nothing of value.

It's ugly out there. I don't think he has crossed the three point line on offense yet.

[Colbinii]

Harden is providing nothing of value.

It's ugly out there. I don't think he has crossed the three point line on offense yet.

He can't run or cut. I doubt he would be out there if Kyrie weren't hurt.

[dcstanley]

Sad watching Harden like this. He can't run at full speed at all.

[MisterHibachi]

Thanasis getting legit minutes is really weird.

[Fadeaway_J]

Why has Harden played almost the whole first half?

[falcolombardi]

So I've seen maybe half a dozen former players on Twitter applauding Paul for "sticking it to analytics" by hitting so many midrange jumpers against the nuggets. It boggles my mind how a concept so simple as "analytically there's nothing wrong with Paul taking midrange jumpers because he's an elite midrange shooter" is lost on them.

Like this isn't some complicated all in one stat with a formula that's hard to explain. Good midrange shooters should take those shots and most players aren't good enough to shoot them on volume. On top of that, they'd have you think the 3 level scorer doesn't exist anymore. Yes, players take more 3s but outside of harden the best volume scorers who can shoot still take midrange shots.

Now, I have no involvement with youth basketball, so I don't know exactly what they're teaching kids these days. I can't imagine they're going straight to 3s, especially at an age where that's just too far away. And you still have to learn to shoot free throws. It'd be odd to not practice any jumpers in that range.

So yeah, semi-rant over. As a logical person I just can't take the pushback by these guys when the simple info is right in front of them.

I agree, over and over you see former players (for example jamal crawford), pundits and media members who don't like analytics seemingly bragging at the fact that cp3, KD, kawhi are all making a living in the midrange and are seemingly sticking it to the analytics movement in their perspective, when in reality they're completely misinterpreting what analytics are saying/providing.

"The midrange is the worst shot in basketball" is parroted over and over in a tone of mockery by these people, when "analytics" isn't saying that at all, at least when you contextualise it.

people being reactionary to new thinghs la nothingh new, many probably hated the shot clock invention in the 50's. in general any drastic change to tradition, good or bad or neutral, will receive some pushback, sometimes deserved, sometimes misguided

somethingh like barkley jokes about analytics people being the nerds that didnt get girls in school are in jest but they may have a kernel of truths

there probably is at least some disliking at the idea of people who dont play sports at a high level telling athletes somethingh they dont know about their sport

[MO12msu]

That half was so weird.

I have no idea why Harden is playing. He looks like the 2015 version of himself on defense and is providing zero on offense because he can barely move.

Giannis had probably his best offensive half of the series by cutting down on the threes but the he just HAD to get a few up to end the half.

Jrue and KD had some really really bad turnovers. Holliday has been a big disappointment offensively all series. Speaking of disappointments, Harris is missing some reaaaally good looks.

Lopez and Giannis seem to be totally locking down the paint, would be interested in seeing the Nets' first half shot chart.

[Colbinii]

So I've seen maybe half a dozen former players on Twitter applauding Paul for "sticking it to analytics" by hitting so many midrange jumpers against the nuggets. It boggles my mind how a concept so simple as "analytically there's nothing wrong with Paul taking midrange jumpers because he's an elite midrange shooter" is lost on them.

Like this isn't some complicated all in one stat with a formula that's hard to explain. Good midrange shooters should take those shots and most players aren't good enough to shoot them on volume. On top of that, they'd have you think the 3 level scorer doesn't exist anymore. Yes, players take more 3s but outside of harden the best volume scorers who can shoot still take midrange shots.

Now, I have no involvement with youth basketball, so I don't know exactly what they're teaching kids these days. I can't imagine they're going straight to 3s, especially at an age where that's just too far away. And you still have to learn to shoot free throws. It'd be odd to not practice any jumpers in that range.

So yeah, semi-rant over. As a logical person I just can't take the pushback by these guys when the simple info is right in front of them.

I agree, over and over you see former players (for example jamal crawford), pundits and media members who don't like analytics seemingly bragging at the fact that cp3, KD, kawhi are all making a living in the midrange and are seemingly sticking it to the analytics movement in their perspective, when in reality they're completely misinterpreting what analytics are saying/providing.

"The midrange is the worst shot in basketball" is parroted over and over in a tone of mockery by these people, when "analytics" isn't saying that at all, at least when you contextualise it.

Not to mention it's not even "the midrange shot" that's the worst shot in basketball, it's the long 2 a few steps inside the 3PT line. Those weren't the shots Paul was taking.

.
Yup.

Whats ironic about all of it is analytics actually prove that you need to (or should have) players who are elite at making difficult 2 point shots. As defenses tighten up in the NBA and have more fluid rotation and preparation time, open 3's become more difficult to come by and shots at the rim are less in volume, meaning teams need to have players like Paul, Kawhi, George, KD, ect who can create good looks in the midrange and make those difficult shots.

I remember listening to a podcast about a year ago, dont remember which one, but the guest was some random analytics guy from some random NBA team. He basically said what I said above (I'm simply reiterating it) and it couldn't be more true--and its all backed up by...analytics!.

Anthony Davis feasted in the midrange last season and his shot making was a big reason why the Lakers won.

[Texas Chuck]

star players have almost always dominated in the mid-range. It's role players you want taking layups and corner 3's with your better shooters being allowed above the break 3's.

Getting rid of 15-23 foot jumpers is the right move for the majority of players. Especially as we have an entire breed of players who are on the court for their defense and get to remain there because they have spent thousands of hours mastering open 3's. Even these guys who shoot in the high 30's from 3, you don't want taking mid-range shots because they are mostly bad off the dribble which is where they would get those shots.

But your offense stars can operate wherever they want and the mid-range allows them to put maximum pressure on defenses.

[MisterHibachi]

What a meltdown by the Bucks.

[MO12msu]

What a meltdown by the Bucks.

I want the Bucks to win but it sure doesn't seem like they do

[Goudelock]

Why is Lopez still in the game? Why do the Bucks collapse on every non-KD driver like they're prime Dwyane Wade reincarnated? Why did the Bucks offense devolve into isolations? Coach Bud is bottling this game.

[Texas Chuck]

Uncle Jeff was a punchline when every deadline some team would trade a first round pick for him. But a terrific minimum pickup for the Nets and his own comeback from injury is keeping the Nets alive.

Props also to KD for going the whole way tonight considering his own health concerns. I know its fun for people to drag him, but give him credit for his level of fight.