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fleet wrote:at least, Bosh and Lebron have to make the same, or Lebron makes more. Bosh can't make the most.

With all the teams with capspace this year, the following players will likely make the same amount next year:
Johnson
Lebron
Bosh
Amare
Wade
maybe Boozer

The only differences may be the length of contract. Lebron knows the CBA rules. The max is the max.

xgeek wrote:I'll say this: "We don't need Bosh".

Lebron
Rose
Noah
Deng
Taj

This is a contender in the East IMO.

I'll say this

Rose
Hinrich
Lebron
Bosh
Noah

Is a legit dynasty possibility.

Heh.

My 14-year old younger brother is visiting me today, and we're talking about free agency:

Him: Would New York be champions with LeBron?

Me: No, 'cause they kind of suck now and have almost nobody. Adding LeBron would help, but even if they get Bosh too, they'd just have them and crap. Playoffs for sure, but not a champion.

Him: So New York sucks without LeBron James?

Me: Yes. Very much so.

Him: Tell me about Miami.

Me: Well they have Dwyane Wade. But he might leave.

Him: How are they without him?

Me: They'd suck badly.

Him: And Bosh plays for Toronto right? Would they win without him?

Me: No, they'd pretty much suck too.

Him: Cleveland without James would also suck, right?

Me: Yes.

Him: Then, when you think about it, Chicago doesn't have anyone of those superstar players but they don't suck. Wouldn't it make the most sense for one of those guys to go the Bulls then?

Arh, the beautiful logic of children.

Is Bosh really that much better than Noah when all the intangibles are added up? Sure Noah doesn't offer the scoring of Bosh, but he offers more on D and the fire he brings is contagious. Noah is possibly a 15-12 guy IMO. As far as needing Bosh's scoring, we should have plenty with Rose, Lebron, Deng and fillers.
I say "Noah stays!!"

if you can get bosh and lbj....screw noah IMO

IMO trading noah will be neccesary if you want lbj and bosh...no one is taking on deng's deal considering his injury history unless noah is attached

I love what Noah does, but some of his skill set is replaceable at the level of money we'd have left after Bosh.

I even have to say that Bosh/Asik/returning Brad Miller is preferable if we are getting a second star player as well.

If it's only Bosh for Noah, I think there's some possibility there for saying no.

Guess I am in the minority, but Noah is still an ascending player with a nice upside. I don't want to lose him. He also proved to be a guy that asserts himself nicely in the playoffs and backs up his words with good play. I think that come playoffs Noah is worth his weight in gold, and with Lebron in the fold it means we can go all the way.
Now if we can get Bosh without giving up Noah, I say go for it. Wouldn't mind giving up Deng or Hinrich even.

coldfish wrote:

xgeek wrote:I'll say this: "We don't need Bosh".

Lebron
Rose
Noah
Deng
Taj

This is a contender in the East IMO.

I'll say this

Rose
Hinrich
Lebron
Bosh
Noah

Is a legit dynasty possibility.

I'll say this:

Well said.

Also, in the playoffs this year Noah averaged 14.8 points, 13 boards and 1.4 blocks.....nice stats especially when you add in his leadership and fire.

My point is i guess: I wouldn't be upset if we just land Lebron without Bosh.

Bosh wields a crap load of power in deciding how his next team is constructed.

Lets say Lebron goes to NY and Bosh wants to join him. Bosh could ultimately decide what kind of compensation Toronto gets back if he so chooses. There are plenty of other FA locations for Bosh to use as leverage if he really does want to make sure that Toronto gets something out of this deal.

Conversely if Lebron and Bosh decide they want to team up - Bosh can control just how much 'hardball' BC can play to get assets out of Chicago. Bosh could always use the threat of going to NY/Miami and leaving Toronto with nothing in return if talks stall.

This is going to be an exciting and terrifying next 8 weeks.

xgeek wrote:Guess I am in the minority, but Noah is still an ascending player with a nice upside. I don't want to lose him. He also proved to be a guy that asserts himself nicely in the playoffs and backs up his words with good play. I think that come playoffs Noah is worth his weight in gold, and with Lebron in the fold it means we can go all the way.
Now if we can get Bosh without giving up Noah, I say go for it. Wouldn't mind giving up Deng or Hinrich even.

I would give Noah up if I had to, but I think people are far overstating Toronto's leverage in this. They are going to be fighting with Lebron, Bosh, Chicago, Worldwidewes, Henry the agent, etc. who are all going to want Noah on the Bulls. Eventually, one of them is going to tell Toronto:

"Take Deng, Asik, Johnson and two picks or Bosh signs outright with NY / NJ / Mia and you get NOTHING"

Let's be honest here, Deng, Asik, Johnson and two picks for Bosh is a king's ransom compared to what other people get in trade.

After that HUGE trade by Chicago, they still would have this:
Rose
Draft pick / Hinrich
Lebron
Bosh / Gibson
Noah

I guess my point is that the huge obstacle in getting Lebron and Bosh to Chicago is convincing Lebron and Bosh to come to Chicago. Once over that hurdle, getting the sign and trade will be easy. The Bulls have a lot of assets.

LA throws a huge monkey wrench in this whole thing. I hope Bosh plans on limiting his list even more; if he doesn't, and he's thought hard about it, he has probably wanted to go to LA all along. If he and his agent are aware of anything, the fact that they can give Bynum and other assets makes the cap space teams have to give up even more.

mindframe wrote:LA throws a huge monkey wrench in this whole thing. I hope Bosh plans on limiting his list even more; if he doesn't, and he's thought hard about it, he has probably wanted to go to LA all along. If he and his agent are aware of anything, the fact that they can give Bynum and other assets makes the cap space teams have to give up even more.

Its really all on Bosh, and whether Jerry Buss is ready to raise his league high payroll still higher for an already championship team.

coldfish wrote:I guess my point is that the huge obstacle in getting Lebron and Bosh to Chicago is convincing Lebron and Bosh to come to Chicago. Once over that hurdle, getting the sign and trade will be easy.

Really? Wouldn't the Bulls have to find a trading partner for at least Deng without taking back any more than Lebron or Bosh (that is, no junk)? That seems like a formidable obstacle. What am I missing?

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:

mindframe wrote:LA throws a huge monkey wrench in this whole thing. I hope Bosh plans on limiting his list even more; if he doesn't, and he's thought hard about it, he has probably wanted to go to LA all along. If he and his agent are aware of anything, the fact that they can give Bynum and other assets makes the cap space teams have to give up even more.

Its really all on Bosh, and whether Jerry Buss is ready to raise his league high payroll still higher for an already championship team.

"Phil, I'm cutting your pay. we need to watch every penny these days. By the way, I just popped an additional 8 million over the cap (doubled, of course) for Bosh. Coach him up, will ya?"

transplant wrote:

coldfish wrote:I guess my point is that the huge obstacle in getting Lebron and Bosh to Chicago is convincing Lebron and Bosh to come to Chicago. Once over that hurdle, getting the sign and trade will be easy.

Really? Wouldn't the Bulls have to find a trading partner for at least Deng without taking back any more than Lebron or Bosh (that is, no junk)? That seems like a formidable obstacle. What am I missing?

Well, first off, I think that Deng and his max deferred contract are not as difficult to trade as some people would say. Remember, the amount he is actually paid is 15% less than what his cap hit is. Cheap owners drool over that. See the Clippers or the Wizards or the Wolves.

Beyond that, here are Chicago's available "sweeteners" in trade:
The player taken at #17
The rights to Asik
Gibson
Johnson
2011 1st
2013 1st
Noah

That's a lot of assets the Bulls can throw into a team in sign and trade or to a third team to give up capspace.

I'm pretty confident that if Bosh says "I WANT Chicago" that something can be worked out. The key is getting him to WANT Chicago.

If my knowledge on Deng's contract is accurate, here is what an owner will have to pay him:
2011 $9.64M
2012 $10.47M
2013 $11.36M
2014 $12.13M
Total 4 years $43.6M for a 25 year old that just averaged 17.6 and 7.3

People acting like that is a horrific contract are just fooling themselves. Half the free agent contracts given out this summer will be worse than that.

coldfish wrote:Well, first off, I think that Deng and his max deferred contract are not as difficult to trade as some people would say. Remember, the amount he is actually paid is 15% less than what his cap hit is. Cheap owners drool over that. See the Clippers or the Wizards or the Wolves.

Beyond that, here are Chicago's available "sweeteners" in trade:
The player taken at #17
The rights to Asik
Gibson
Johnson
2011 1st
2013 1st
Noah

That's a lot of assets the Bulls can throw into a team in sign and trade or to a third team to give up capspace.

I'm pretty confident that if Bosh says "I WANT Chicago" that something can be worked out. The key is getting him to WANT Chicago.

Thanks for the explanation, but it still comes down to another team taking Deng and his (high-cap-hit) contract. I'm not saying it's not possible, but "easy?" I mean, I keep reading that nearly everyone here would add their right testicle as sweetener to unload Deng for pure cap space. If this at all reflects the thoughts of GMs, trading Deng without taking back contracts other than Bosh or Lebron won't be easy.

People are acting like Deng is coming off his 2008/2009 season. This season was a very good season for Deng. 18 and 7 with good defense. He's slightly overpaid, but I don't get the idea that he's some kind of untradable deadweight.