The One And Only Offseason Thread 4

[batsmasher]

Dragic-Thomas-Bledsoe-Green-Tucker-Warren-Kieff-Mook-Plumlee-Len-Tolliver-Goodwin

that's 12 players that should get minutes, plus another possible signing (meaning Christmas or Randolph would have to be waived). It's rare and generally not feasible to have a rotation larger than 10 players; assuming a healthy roster who do you guys think will be the 2-3 players that get regular DNPs this season?

Shav is guaranteed. Dionte gets waived after a woeful Summer League.

Archie gets D-League minutes until he sorts himself out.

My guess at the rotation at this stage would be

Dragic(31)/IT(29)
Bled(32)/Green(15)
Tucker(27)/Mook(9)/Warren(7)
Tolliver(22)/Kieff(28)
Plum(28)/Shav(7)/Len(5)

Too many players commanding minutes IMO... surely a shake up coming before the season starts.

[RaisingArizona]

Amare, wtf?

[RaisingArizona]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EBled2/status/491818349836267520[/tweet]

Well, there it is folks, Half-life 3 confirmed!

[RunDogGun]

I'm not sure about that, but if he goes overseas I cannot imagine why we would lose his rights if he came back. Maybe we only hold them for a number of years in this scenario but I have no idea.

That's my understanding of it. No matter where he goes, if he comes back, we'll have his matching rights. As for sitting out, I assume he would be doing it without an agreement with the Suns so when he decides he wants to play again, we'll once again hold his matching rights.

Anyway, these are pretty extreme scenarios which probably only have a 0.01% of happening.

Wasn't there a similar scenario with Aaron Brooks? He played in China during his 5th year while the Suns still held his rights; they didn't withdraw them until the following offseason as they had 3 PGs (Dragic/Telfair/Marshall).

Unless the new CBA is different in regards to RFA rights, it will be like any player that takes time away from the league. The team that owns those rights retain those rights upon return. It will be just like the Brooks deal, and is why we did a sign and trade with ATL for Chilldress. When he left he was a RFA, and when he came back three years later, ATL still had his rights.

[bwgood77]

You do if you want to get this done and $4m is a lot cheaper than $28m which is what he's holding out for.

The big problem with moving up your offer is, what if they don't accept that? You can't budge. I agree that I would take that offer but you can't just offer it or they could demand more. You can't negotiate this way.

The most ANYONE can offer IF THEY CAN CLEAR MAX CAP SPACE is 4/63, but no one has even offered anything yet.

NotTraxxe once said Bledose earlier turned down a good offer because he was demanding the max but didn't give details. I'm guessing that must have been something like 4/52 and now they are mad they didn't at least take that and want more.

I wouldn't mind if they ended up giving him that....thought it is little bit excessive, but certainly not for Rich Paul to save face. That's ridiculous.

If they don't accept than we can say we've done all we can. We offered them something they didn't bite on and now we've gone above and beyond and offered him an extra $4m. If it doesn't happen then see you later. We've shown the Suns fan we kept our word about doing whatever we can to keep him.

If he signs, you could argue it's a fair deal and Rich Paul "did his job" and got his client a better deal. I think 48/4 is fair and 52/4 isn't significantly more than fair.

I understand where you're coming from saying we should stand pat because we have leverage but I think it's good for all parties if we made a slightly bigger commitment. In the end, we didn't add the $4m to save face for Rich Paul, we did it to get a deal done and over 4 years it's really not that much.

I agree that if they came to us and said "we will sign if you give us 4/52" I would do it. But if we go up and say we will give it to them, and they say no, we've just lost leverage. Then they could end up saying "we will sign if you give us 4/56". The more you move up, the higher you have to settle. I can't be sure, but it sounds like we already went from 4/44 to 4/48. If we just keep moving up I don't know what reason they have to sign if they see us moving up a few million a week. If they offer a settlement that is reasonable and not too much higher, it is worthy of accepting. But if they are saying 5/80, you don't want to start slowly creeping up that way.

[RaisingArizona]

He wants to save face? Fine. $48,000,000.01

[Zelaznyrules]

Dragic-Thomas-Bledsoe-Green-Tucker-Warren-Kieff-Mook-Plumlee-Len-Tolliver-Goodwin

that's 12 players that should get minutes, plus another possible signing (meaning Christmas or Randolph would have to be waived). It's rare and generally not feasible to have a rotation larger than 10 players; assuming a healthy roster who do you guys think will be the 2-3 players that get regular DNPs this season?

Shav is guaranteed. Dionte gets waived after a woeful Summer League.

Archie gets D-League minutes until he sorts himself out.

My guess at the rotation at this stage would be

Dragic(31)/IT(29)
Bled(32)/Green(15)
Tucker(27)/Mook(9)/Warren(7)
Tolliver(22)/Kieff(28)
Plum(28)/Shav(7)/Len(5)

Too many players commanding minutes IMO... surely a shake up coming before the season starts.

Are you really suggesting that Tolliver should or will start in front of Markieff? If so, I'd have to question it. We need to know what we have in Markieff before his contract comes due. He's earned the starting spot or at least a chance at it and leaving him behind a career scrub is not going to do us much good if we decide we want to keep the twins.

[batsmasher]

Are you really suggesting that Tolliver should or will start in front of Markieff? If so, I'd have to question it. We need to know what we have in Markieff before his contract comes due. He's earned the starting spot or at least a chance at it and leaving him behind a career scrub is not going to do us much good if we decide we want to keep the twins.

I personally don't think Kieff will show he has the range to fit the system starting with the Slash Bros.

Plus, he relished the role as the leader of the Bench Mob last season, why fix what isn't broke? He can still get close to starter minutes off the bench.

[Zelaznyrules]

Are you really suggesting that Tolliver should or will start in front of Markieff? If so, I'd have to question it. We need to know what we have in Markieff before his contract comes due. He's earned the starting spot or at least a chance at it and leaving him behind a career scrub is not going to do us much good if we decide we want to keep the twins.

I personally don't think Kieff will show he has the range to fit the system starting with the Slash Bros.

Plus, he relished the role as the leader of the Bench Mob last season, why fix what isn't broke? He can still get close to starter minutes off the bench.

Because starters get a lot more money than bench players do and when you have a player who has clearly earned that chance, it's a huge risk to not give him the opportunity as his contract comes due. And because it is broke, it broke when we let Frye go - so we do need a fix. There is nothing in Tolliver's history to suggest he is anything more than a deep, deep rotation guy. I don't like the idea of Markieff as a three point shooter either but there are other ways to stretch the court than to have your power forward park outside the arc.

[GDFTony]

I've always envisioned Amare back in the desert. Coming back for the medical staff and the fans

Much like Amare, I can't defend this post.

edit: My reading comprehension is terrible...nvm

[WeekapaugGroove]

Great article by Zach lowe on the Bledsoe situation.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/eric- ... ed-summer/

[RunDogGun]

I've always envisioned Amare back in the desert. Coming back for the medical staff and the fans

Much like Amare, I can't defend this post.

Post of the week!

[Son of Ra]

Dragic-Thomas-Bledsoe-Green-Tucker-Warren-Kieff-Mook-Plumlee-Len-Tolliver-Goodwin

that's 12 players that should get minutes, plus another possible signing (meaning Christmas or Randolph would have to be waived). It's rare and generally not feasible to have a rotation larger than 10 players; assuming a healthy roster who do you guys think will be the 2-3 players that get regular DNPs this season?

Shav is guaranteed. Dionte gets waived after a woeful Summer League.

Archie gets D-League minutes until he sorts himself out.

My guess at the rotation at this stage would be

Dragic(31)/IT(29)
Bled(32)/Green(15)
Tucker(27)/Mook(9)/Warren(7)
Tolliver(22)/Kieff(28)
Plum(28)/Shav(7)/Len(5)

Too many players commanding minutes IMO... surely a shake up coming before the season starts.

Man I would be pissed if Warren only played 7 mpg. I know that it's contrary to many posters opinion here but I don't like the idea of playing rookies so little and have them 'earn' it. If you only have 7 mpg to show what you've got u are so much more under pressure to perform and have no room for error (I think that really showed with Len and Goodwin last year). And how do you learn if you just watch others play? Were we contending then ok fine, this would be a good approach but we are still rebuilding so throw them out there as much as possible so they are ready when we actually do contend in 2-3 years. I would much rather have rookies with a full season under their belts than an 8th seed in the playoffs. You don't improve if you don't play.

[RunDogGun]

Much like Amare, I can't defend this post.

huh? There's nothing to defend.

Yea I didn't quite get that one either.

Defend also means : to speak in favor of( an action or person), attempt to justify.

[RunDogGun]

Dragic-Thomas-Bledsoe-Green-Tucker-Warren-Kieff-Mook-Plumlee-Len-Tolliver-Goodwin

that's 12 players that should get minutes, plus another possible signing (meaning Christmas or Randolph would have to be waived). It's rare and generally not feasible to have a rotation larger than 10 players; assuming a healthy roster who do you guys think will be the 2-3 players that get regular DNPs this season?

Shav is guaranteed. Dionte gets waived after a woeful Summer League.

Archie gets D-League minutes until he sorts himself out.

My guess at the rotation at this stage would be

Dragic(31)/IT(29)
Bled(32)/Green(15)
Tucker(27)/Mook(9)/Warren(7)
Tolliver(22)/Kieff(28)
Plum(28)/Shav(7)/Len(5)

Too many players commanding minutes IMO... surely a shake up coming before the season starts.

Man I would be pissed if Warren only played 7 mpg. I know that it's contrary to many posters opinion here but I don't like the idea of playing rookies so little and have them 'earn' it. If you only have 7 mpg to show what you've got u are so much more under pressure to perform and have no room for error (I think that really showed with Len and Goodwin last year). And how do you learn if you just watch others play? Were we contending then ok fine, this would be a good approach but we are still rebuilding so throw them out there as much as possible so they are ready when we actually do contend in 2-3 years. I would much rather have rookies with a full season under their belts than an 8th seed in the playoffs. You don't improve if you don't play.

Why? I think Jeff did a great job last season, and he is still in the frame of mind that he will play whoever is ready, and is playing well. Goodwin and Len weren't ready for minutes last season. And after this summer league, I'm not sure when Goodwin will be ready. And with Len only playing one game, the jury is still out on him.

Bottom line, you play your best players. There is a reason the NBA has a development league.

[Zelaznyrules]

Dragic-Thomas-Bledsoe-Green-Tucker-Warren-Kieff-Mook-Plumlee-Len-Tolliver-Goodwin

that's 12 players that should get minutes, plus another possible signing (meaning Christmas or Randolph would have to be waived). It's rare and generally not feasible to have a rotation larger than 10 players; assuming a healthy roster who do you guys think will be the 2-3 players that get regular DNPs this season?

Shav is guaranteed. Dionte gets waived after a woeful Summer League.

Archie gets D-League minutes until he sorts himself out.

My guess at the rotation at this stage would be

Dragic(31)/IT(29)
Bled(32)/Green(15)
Tucker(27)/Mook(9)/Warren(7)
Tolliver(22)/Kieff(28)
Plum(28)/Shav(7)/Len(5)

Too many players commanding minutes IMO... surely a shake up coming before the season starts.

Man I would be pissed if Warren only played 7 mpg. I know that it's contrary to many posters opinion here but I don't like the idea of playing rookies so little and have them 'earn' it. If you only have 7 mpg to show what you've got u are so much more under pressure to perform and have no room for error (I think that really showed with Len and Goodwin last year). And how do you learn if you just watch others play? Were we contending then ok fine, this would be a good approach but we are still rebuilding so throw them out there as much as possible so they are ready when we actually do contend in 2-3 years. I would much rather have rookies with a full season under their belts than an 8th seed in the playoffs. You don't improve if you don't play.

I'm in favor of letting (some) rookies grow into their role which usually includes giving them meaningful game minutes. But they also need to earn it. By that, I mostly mean they have to put in the time off the court but they also have to show improvement along the way. I have no doubt that TJ will do just those things. He'll earn his minutes and AFAIC he's already earned some with his summer league play.

I'm against giving Goodwin any playing time because I think winning should still be a primary goal even for a developing team and you should never reward stupid play. Plus, you can't win with Archie on the court for extended minutes. But I think you can win with Warren logging 15 to 20 minutes per game so I say play him early and often even if it costs us every now and then. It will pay dividends in the long run.

[Christine-In-AZ]

Great article by Zach lowe on the Bledsoe situation.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/eric- ... ed-summer/

Lowe is the best with both his knowledge and opinions...

...The Suns are right to push for a deal that is both fair and below the five-year mega-contract Bledsoe wants. There may come a point at which the Suns wish to trade Bledsoe, and options multiply if they have him on a contract with leaguewide appeal. Tacking on a fifth year would also prevent Phoenix from trading Bledsoe now, since teams cannot sign-and-trade a player inked to a contract that runs longer than four seasons. Granting that fifth year would also require Phoenix to name Bledsoe its “designated player,” a one-time-only thing for as long as Bledsoe is on the team. Ryan McDonough, the Suns’ GM, has had a killer first year on the job, and he’s not in the business of overpaying anyone on long-term deals. Ask Channing Frye.

[aIvin adams]

Great article by Zach lowe on the Bledsoe situation.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/eric- ... ed-summer/

Tacking on a fifth year would also prevent Phoenix from trading Bledsoe now, since teams cannot sign-and-trade a player inked to a contract that runs longer than four seasons. Granting that fifth year would also require Phoenix to name Bledsoe its “designated player,” a one-time-only thing for as long as Bledsoe is on the team.

did not realize that first part about not being able to S&T for a yr

[Christine-In-AZ]

If you're wondering what a "designated player" is...

A designated player is a former first-round draft pick who receives a five-year extension to his rookie-scale contract. Teams are allowed to sign players to rookie-scale extensions of up to four years as often as they want, but they can only sign one player to a five-year rookie scale extension for as long as that extension is in effect. So, the Wizards, who signed John Wall to a five-year extension in July, can't sign anyone else to a rookie-scale extension of more than four years until the summer of 2019, when Wall's deal expires. The five-year deal makes Wall the team's designated player. That means the Wizards will be limited when they negotiate with Bradley Beal or any other player on the team's roster who can become eligible for a rookie-scale extension before Wall's deal is up.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/08/desi ... ayers.html

[WeekapaugGroove]

ChrisinAZ I agree that Lowe's the best in the business right now and it's really not even close. It's refreshing to read someone who not only understands the cba but can also give really good analysis. He also puts out a ton of material. I remember a few people here hating on him last season and I never understood that.

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