Regular Season Game 28: Orlando Magic (12-15) at Denver Nuggets (17-8) - 9pm ET

[drsd]

Vuc isn’t an all star lol.

This is objectively false.






FAKE NEWS!


..

[KillMonger]

If the Vuc trade is there for Russell i would take it but i just don't see it there.....heard rumors about teams wanting AG.....teams wanting JI.....i guess we'll see

[Rainwater]

Remember when AG was better at offense than Fournier? It wasn't that long ago. Just last season actually. Obviously not the case now. I don't really have a point. It's just crazy how quickly it flips with our team. Fournier has been on fire and it seems AG is having some sort of basketball crisis.

When was AG better than Evan on offense? Dude can barely shoot or dibble. He's been an athlete learning to play basketball.

[Rainwater]

AG is the key to getting someone in here that can score, don't think they'll be any takers for Vuc because the center position isn't that important anymore i mean you got harrell playing center for the clippers and he's MAYBE 6"7.....lol i mean they took away the center position from the frickin all-star game so even the league recognizes it. Plus i think keeping vuc as a compliment to the guy is the way to go, focusing the offense around vuc is the way it is now but it's not the way it should be....we get a guy in here who is a bucket then things will change for the better and i think AG is the key to that.....with clifford still here though i don't know

You, and most wouldn’t trade Vuc for AG. How is AG going to get us someone better than Vuc? As much as I love the idea of getting DLo for AG and fillers, there are a few teams that will give up more value than we have. At the end of the day, Fultz and JI reaching their potential before having to hand them large contracts is the key. Everyone else is trade fodder to my eyes.

I really think AG is overvalued by many, he won't net you an all-star by himself.

[Bensational]

He's obviously not a great 1st option for a great team, but how about as the 2nd or 3rd option? That's why I wanna keep him around, he'd be a great sidekick for that superstar player that takes us to the next level. Unfortunately, we had a great 1st and 3rd option in Oladipo and Harris. To bad things didn't work out and we made mistakes and chose Fournier and Payton over them.

I don't disagree with you here. I absolutely could see Vucevic as a good #2 or great #3 on a good team. He has a good skill set.

The problem is two fold.

1. How do the Magic find a #1 option when they are too capped out to sign one, don't have enough trade assets to acquire one and aren't going to be bad enough record wise to draft one? It's easy to say "keep Vuc around and find better pieces to put around him that can make him less of a focal point", but that's easier said than done, especially with Vucevic making the kind of money he does now. It was easier when he was making 12.5M

2. Would Vucevic even be willing become a #2 or #3 option after six seasons of being a #1 option and everything that now comes with that? He has the big contract. He has the "all-star" label. The whole offense basically runs through him. Would (could?) he give that up?

As painful as it would be, the best course of action for this franchise would be to completely change the strategy. Trudging along the next couple of years as a team with a low 40s win ceiling is arguably a worse spot to be in from a long-term perspective than where they were under Hennigan.

Vuc wouldn't be anything close to a top 3 option on any recent contending team.

Kawhi/Siakam/Lowry/Gasol
Curry/Durant/Klay/Draymond
LeBron/Kyrie/Love

Vuc's name doesn't belong in the same conversation as those names. On a team built to contend, he would be relegated to a Gasol/Draymond kind of mutli-faceted role player. At best he could become a Love/Bosh 3rd option. But even they were significantly better than him as individual players before joining big 3's, which sets the bar for how far short he falls as a top option on a contending team.

That applies to everyone on our team right now, to be fair. Nobody is equipped to be a top option on a great team yet.

[KillMonger]

how do we fix it that's the question....those rare top guys isn't falling into our laps so.....do we blow up the team and start over? that's a tough sell

[bigshawn]

I didn't watch the game and I know their salaries don't match, but what about an AG for Porter Jr? MPJ is a natural SF and can shoot. He's also on the same timeline as Fultz and JI. Maybe they can attach Milsap and we can sweeten it with a pick or something.

[pepe1991]

We had Tobias and Dipo but chose Vuc and Evan when we could have just kept them all.

We now have Fultz and JI but Vuc and Evan are seasoned vets so they understandably get more plays run for them but we need to look to the future. You can’t count on Vuc against tough defenses. Fultz or JI need to be developed into the closing role. Preferably Fultz running the P&R with JI to build chemistry.

Actually Magic picked building around Payton and Gordon, not Evan and Vuc.
They signed Biyombo that year to replace him. Evan was simply cheaper than Dipo

[SOUL]

Remember when AG was better at offense than Fournier? It wasn't that long ago. Just last season actually. Obviously not the case now. I don't really have a point. It's just crazy how quickly it flips with our team. Fournier has been on fire and it seems AG is having some sort of basketball crisis.

When was AG better than Evan on offense? Dude can barely shoot or dibble. He's been an athlete learning to play basketball.

He shot the three better than Fournier just last year.

[thelead]

how do we fix it that's the question....those rare top guys isn't falling into our laps so.....do we blow up the team and start over? that's a tough sell

You try to make a move for Jrue or DLo without giving up the little shooting we have (Ross/Evan) or our youth (Fultz/JI/Bamba). If we can’t make that happen, we might as well ‘blow it up’ and hand the keys to Fultz and JI and let the chips fall where they may. I’m not sure what getting to another short 1st round exit with a capped out team is going to do for us.

[Rainwater]

Remember when AG was better at offense than Fournier? It wasn't that long ago. Just last season actually. Obviously not the case now. I don't really have a point. It's just crazy how quickly it flips with our team. Fournier has been on fire and it seems AG is having some sort of basketball crisis.

When was AG better than Evan on offense? Dude can barely shoot or dibble. He's been an athlete learning to play basketball.

He shot the three better than Fournier just last year.

This shows stats are deceiving, you can't watch the game and say AG is a better shooter. Additionally, Last year was an off year for Evan has always been a better shooter than AG. As a whole AG has always been the better offensive player.

[pepe1991]

Ugh i wrote yesterday it's schedule L so i didn't expect much, yet as usual, i got angry at the end


Aside from Evan who makes lot of shots, nobody really plays well overall.

Aaron Gordon
I would't say he has been bad, because Gordon played like this in past too, fans just now got tired of waiting for him to make a leap he never had skillset to take. he shooting is worst than usual, maybe because he spent summer working on least effective shot in basketball, while having no fundamentals to do basic things like drives and left hand layups.

DJ Augustin
Clear decline. Has good games ( last 3) ,has games where he is dumpster fire. On bright note, he has been only player last few games that plays better.

MCW
Energy spark, brings some edge to defense, but it's MCW , there is just so much you can do with him.

Birch
As starter outmatched and outclassed.
As backup he's fine, but >18 mpg player for sure.

Ross
Teams changed a way they defend him. Brings lot of attention even when his shot is off. He can't ever be starter because of his poor passing for perimeter player. Been that way since a Raptors days. Belongs in that Gordon ballpark, has crazy athletics that never used for anything beneficial to his game.

Iwundu
Body.

Isaac
Improved defense, offense didn't see any changes. Serbe Ibaka on OKC type offense you can expect for him. Spot ups where he feels more comfortable in mid range than 3 point range.

Fultz
Has some flashes but without rebirth of his jumpshot he'll never be anything special.

Bamba
Plays better last couple of games. Still looks to be years away from being ready to start, if he keeps improving.

Vuc
Simply does not play as well as last year. Played better in mid November but got hurt. Given new contract, should do more.


Overall that's pretty much it. Interanall growth didn't really happen. Team never took another step, new player, Aminu, who i didn't even rank, before injury was horrific and borderline- unplayable.
Youth really didn't "Siakam-ed"up this year to another level and some vets slipped.
Evan is only player who you can say "this guy plays way better than last year", witch isn't really saying THAT mcuh as he was terrible by his own standards last year.

[MagicFrenchie]

Just notify me when we have traded this Gordon trash.

[basketballRob]

the man had 20 points 7 rebounds 5 Assists 1 block

Sounds like the perfect time to sell high to me

He had 22 points. 20 for the Magic and 2 for the Nuggets.

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[VFX]

Magic don’t beat good teams and beat bad ones. Denver is a good team. The Magic are currently built as a treadmill team that is destined for a first round exit.

Denver -L
Utah - L
New Orleans - W
Houston - L
LAL - L
Milwaukee - L
Cleveland - W
Phoenix - W

The talent simply isn’t there to win against good teams. Actually, have the Magic even beaten a current +.500 team yet this season? The only one I can remember was Philadelphia without Embiid.

[pepe1991]

Magic don’t beat good teams and beat bad ones. Denver is a good team. The Magic are currently built as a treadmill team that is destined for a first round exit.

Denver -L
Utah - L
New Orleans - W
Houston - L
LAL - L
Milwaukee - L
Cleveland - W
Phoenix - W

The talent simply isn’t there to win against good teams. Actually, have Orlando even beaten a current +.500 team yet this season? The only one I can remember was Philadelphia without Embiid.

yep, Magic are 1-13 against teams with record over .500
However, 16 of 29 other teams have negative record.

So Magic are either :
a) best bad team in nba
b) worst good team

Current roster, enterting 2020 has ceiling of 7th seed and floor of 8th seed.
Tbh i'm not sure what they can change now.

[VFX]

Magic don’t beat good teams and beat bad ones. Denver is a good team. The Magic are currently built as a treadmill team that is destined for a first round exit.

Denver -L
Utah - L
New Orleans - W
Houston - L
LAL - L
Milwaukee - L
Cleveland - W
Phoenix - W

The talent simply isn’t there to win against good teams. Actually, have Orlando even beaten a current +.500 team yet this season? The only one I can remember was Philadelphia without Embiid.

yep, Magic are 1-13 against teams with record over .500
However, 16 of 29 other teams have negative record.

So Magic are either :
a) best bad team in nba
b) worst good team

Current roster, enterting 2020 has ceiling of 7th seed and floor of 8th seed.
Tbh i'm not sure what they can change now.

Good thing Magic fans get to see the same 3 guys since 2014 struggle to barely make the playoffs again. It’s truly been a remarkable journey of mediocrity.

[pepe1991]

Magic don’t beat good teams and beat bad ones. Denver is a good team. The Magic are currently built as a treadmill team that is destined for a first round exit.

Denver -L
Utah - L
New Orleans - W
Houston - L
LAL - L
Milwaukee - L
Cleveland - W
Phoenix - W

The talent simply isn’t there to win against good teams. Actually, have Orlando even beaten a current +.500 team yet this season? The only one I can remember was Philadelphia without Embiid.

yep, Magic are 1-13 against teams with record over .500
However, 16 of 29 other teams have negative record.

So Magic are either :
a) best bad team in nba
b) worst good team

Current roster, enterting 2020 has ceiling of 7th seed and floor of 8th seed.
Tbh i'm not sure what they can change now.

Good thing Magic fans get to see the same 3 guys since 2014 struggle to barely make the playoffs again. It’s truly been a remarkable journey.

It's clear front office has zero desire to tank, it's also backed up with ownership that has zero desire to tank (again) as their previous rebuild failed so badly.
Team does not attract free agents, so that option isn't objective.
Trade season just started and we are yet to see any moves. Most of teams now are either already tanking haaaaaaard or contending for title. Middle ground doesn't really exist this year.

Even if they kick in rebuild gear and somehow land top pick, it's pretty terrible draft class. I mean, do you really think LaMelo Ball will save any franchize? Or drafting James Wiseman who's comparison is - Nikola Vučević, will lead any team to championship?
Or that Dani Avdija, poor man Luka Dončić will ever live up to his " Luka Dončić" hype?

Will additions of guys like Lonzo Ball, Jackson, Dennis Smith, Frank Ntilikina, Colin Sexston, Michael Porter JR change team's faith or it will be just adding another young player that failed to live to his draft stock ( much like how Magic got Fultz ).

Every turn you take at this stage leads to more questions than solutions. But main problem stays the same: Magic had A LOOOOOOOT of high draft picks that should have translated into star players, yet, they simply didn't.

2012: 19#
2013 : 2# pick
2014 : 4th pick ,10# pick
2015: 5# pick
2016: 11# pick
2017. 1# pick, 6# pick
2018 , 6# pick
2019 16# pick

That's 10 players, 8 lottery picks. 4 top 5 picks. One former 1# pick.

But it's strike- out after strike- out.

Magic face copy past same issuse as Bulls. They simply don't have franchize player.
There is, of course, one super risky move to make, and that's how Houston was built. They took huge gamble on Harden and built around him.
Now who is next Harden? Ingram? Andrew Wiggins? Jaylen Brown? Is there some hidden gem that nobody can see?

[J-Mezzy]

Evan is on a bad run. I don't think it has to do with Vuc. Just a rough patch

But we need him. We won't beat bad teams without him playing well...let alone good teams

[SHAQ32]

I think we'll play better during the 2nd half of the season. Not just because of last year, but because the calls that we aren't getting, I think we'll get more during the 2nd half. With the way sports betting works. People will be picking us to lose. If you catch my drift.