Woj: Gafford & Hutchison to Washington for Troy Brown & Mo Wagner

[ShouldaPaidBG]

I mean I like Gafford but all that's happened since this trade is he's proven thoroughly that he's a good backup center. The difference in the game last night when Lively exited was obvious.

[dougthonus]

I don't have much energy on this one.

Gafford's a solid backup center / fringe starting center. He'd be better than Vuc, and holistically the front court of Lauri, WCJ, and Gafford that AKME inherited would destroy our current front court situation, but that's mainly just due to Lauri going on to be a superstud and Vuc being a total bum, with Gafford and WCJ just being guys who are decent and playing on fair contracts.

Gafford/Brown stuck me as pretty similar caliber prospects, Brown never developed the shot he needed, but you can see why we liked him and what you thought he might have been able to become, but he never developed and there's greater risk and reward with the player that can be transformatively better if he adds a skill vs one with a relatively low ceiling but probably already has everything in the bag he needs.

Gafford never needed to develop, he's just the player you thought he'd become through years of iterative improvement and that's a solid rotation big. Brown needed to add a few things, but if he did, he would have been fantastic and if he didn't he'd be a bust, then he didn't.

[TheSuzerain]

DJJ being better than any forward on our roster is the bigger whiff

[DuckIII]

The issue is not really DJJ or Gafford as specific players. It’s the mind boggling and complete failure to place value in roster balance by ignoring what these player types bring to the table.

It’s not about who we traded, really (except in Lauri’s case). It’s about who we replaced them with.

[dougthonus]

The issue is not really DJJ or Gafford as specific players. It’s the mind boggling and complete failure to place value in roster balance by ignoring what these player types bring to the table.

It’s not about who we traded, really (except in Lauri’s case). It’s about who we replaced them with.

Alternatively, it's not about the margin players at all. It's about the key players that fit poorly and have such massive deficiencies that putting margin players around them is virtually impossible.

When you start with DeMar and Vuc, whom neither defend nor shoot the three and are both going to play a crap ton, you've really put yourself in a terrible spot to try and bring in role players, especially when you're bidding largely at the minimum. Torey Craig is probably the best possible fitting guy you could imagine in theory next to those guys. Good solid defender and good open three point shooter.

We aren't in a scenario where margin players are going to be available to fit our needs without creating other huge holes, because our starters don't cover up enough of the gaps.

[DuckIII]

The issue is not really DJJ or Gafford as specific players. It’s the mind boggling and complete failure to place value in roster balance by ignoring what these player types bring to the table.

It’s not about who we traded, really (except in Lauri’s case). It’s about who we replaced them with.

Alternatively, it's not about the margin players at all. It's about the key players that fit poorly and have such massive deficiencies that putting margin players around them is virtually impossible.

When you start with DeMar and Vuc, whom neither defend nor shoot the three and are both going to play a crap ton, you've really put yourself in a terrible spot to try and bring in role players, especially when you're bidding largely at the minimum. Torey Craig is probably the best possible fitting guy you could imagine in theory next to those guys. Good solid defender and good open three point shooter.

We aren't in a scenario where margin players are going to be available to fit our needs without creating other huge holes, because our starters don't cover up enough of the gaps.

That’s the main problem, of course. The “franchise” players are the most important, which is why we call them that. And ours are old and not actually franchise players at all.

The point though is that AK’s complete disregard of roster balance and matchups is even more troubling considering he’s actually trying to win as many games as possible. Which means he really doesn’t believe guys like DJJ and Gafford matter to winning games. And it’s confirmed by the fact that he does nothing to replace what they provide.

We play basketball with a half-skilled team. While trying to win! The more layers of the onion you peel, the closer you get to the rotten core.

[dougthonus]

That’s the main problem, of course. The “franchise” players are the most important, which is why we call them that. And ours are old and not actually franchise players at all.

The point though is that AK’s complete disregard of roster balance and matchups is even more troubling considering he’s actually trying to win as many games as possible. Which means he really doesn’t believe guys like DJJ and Gafford matter to winning games. And it’s confirmed by the fact that he does nothing to replace what they provide.

We play basketball with a half-skilled team. While trying to win! The more layers of the onion you peel, the closer you get to the rotten core.

This does underscore the hilarity of the awfulness of our front office. No matter what angle you take on saying they're bad, you're right.

[MrSparkle]

Welp, on its own, this trade proved to not be that big a deal. Gafford is playing with the best offensive PG and best offensive wing in the league. Perfect role for him. Hutch is out the league, Troy had his chance and busted. Would’ve been better off keeping Wagner (er, both of them).

But agreed that he’s 10x more desirable than Vuc.

This board was having a meltdown for no trades the first season. Then most were ecstatic (check beginning of this thread).

Sum of the parts still stand as they are: Lonzo's injury sucked, and VUC TRADE SUCKED (because VUC SUCKS).

But I agree it's funny/sad that almost every guy we complimentary cannon-balled out of Chicago has proceeded to have significantly better performance-to-minutes-and-money/advanced-stats than our dud. This even includes the hot potato Mo Wagner, who makes $8M, chills on the bench most the time, but when he plays, contributes 20 PER with 67% TS (and has cooked Vuc a number of times). But also Gafford, Lauri, Wendell ($)... I mean, gosh. I'd rather have Theis on the minimum, and I did prefer Drummond on the minimum though he's probably moving on.

Vuc is AK's centerpiece for an F. He dug a deeper hole by resigning him and continuing to try and build around this loser. Bench him already.

[League Circles]

Luka Doncic is also quite good

[HomoSapien]

We just keep losing on every deal we make

[Jeffster81]

Why bring this thread from the dead? All this thread proved is that the Bulls can draft solid player, they simply don't know how to developed said talent.

It is not the traded players that bother me it's the bums they draft that bothers me, ie McDermott and Teague.

[Stratmaster]

Welp, on its own, this trade proved to not be that big a deal. Gafford is playing with the best offensive PG and best offensive wing in the league. Perfect role for him. Hutch is out the league, Troy had his chance and busted. Would’ve been better off keeping Wagner (er, both of them).

But agreed that he’s 10x more desirable than Vuc.

This board was having a meltdown for no trades the first season. Then most were ecstatic (check beginning of this thread).

Sum of the parts still stand as they are: Lonzo's injury sucked, and VUC TRADE SUCKED (because VUC SUCKS).

But I agree it's funny/sad that almost every guy we complimentary cannon-balled out of Chicago has proceeded to have significantly better performance-to-minutes-and-money/advanced-stats than our dud. This even includes the hot potato Mo Wagner, who makes $8M, chills on the bench most the time, but when he plays, contributes 20 PER with 67% TS (and has cooked Vuc a number of times). But also Gafford, Lauri, Wendell ($)... I mean, gosh. I'd rather have Theis on the minimum, and I did prefer Drummond on the minimum though he's probably moving on.

Vuc is AK's centerpiece for an F. He dug a deeper hole by resigning him and continuing to try and build around this loser. Bench him already.

Why is it that every player plays worse as a Chicago Bull? I wonder what Billy's theory on this is?

[Stratmaster]

Why bring this thread from the dead? All this thread proved is that the Bulls can draft solid player, they simply don't know how to developed said talent.

It is not the traded players that bother me it's the bums they draft that bothers me, ie McDermott and Teague.

Well, it does show that the one place that is wrong as much as the Bulls front office is RealGM.

[RSP83]

Why bring this thread from the dead? All this thread proved is that the Bulls can draft solid player, they simply don't know how to developed said talent.

It is not the traded players that bother me it's the bums they draft that bothers me, ie McDermott and Teague.

These talents didn't develop here because the Bulls never able to put in the right core for these players to develop.

It's easier when you have a core piece like a Luka or a Giannis. Zach Lavine ain't that, Lauri Markkanen ain't that. Bulls has been running without a good point guard for God knows how long.

[madvillian]

Two things are true. We've shipped out talent prematurely and also that talent wouldn't have flourished here as it has outside the org.

Neither of those things is any good and until the latter is solved by fixing the roster, it really won't matter if we make good trades or not around role players.

[kodo]

This is not a development issue, Gafford is the exact same player on DAL as the player we drafted. He's an incredible leaper & athlete for a 6' 11" guy, and that was noted even before we drafted him.

per 36 minutes, he's the same guy.
2021: 17 points, 10.5 rebounds, 3.4 blocks
2024: 16 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3.0 blocks

He's always been an incredible finisher, per year 70%, 68%, 69%, 68%, 67%.

The FO just doesn't value athletic centers like Gafford. The role of the C is to hang out at the top of the key and pass the ball and make 3P shots. Vuc doesn't operate at the rim either on offense or defense, which is where centers like Gafford operate. It's basically the Joker style of team, except our center is the dollar store version and on defense the Fs who rotate aren't athletic beasts like Aaron Gordon or have the raw length like MPJ.