Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle

[Clyde_Style]

Some folks are getting too wrapped up in body language analysis like we did with Melo. We just don't know what the relationships are.

The issue with Julius is we have the pieces for an up tempo, high movement offense and Julius is a halfcourt ball stopper, and not an elite one at that. RJ has similar issues as a #1 in a half court offense but is well suited for pace as well. If the Knicks move on from Randle:

- best case, they can take a step forward with their younger personnel.
- worst case, you at least see what you have and go back to the drawing board

But if you keep him the team is pulled in two directions from a stylistic standpoint and you end up with the mess on the floor we saw for much of the season.

Obi and IQ and Grimes have the highest upside. RJ may eclipse them all, but he doesn't have the natural gifts they do. Even IQ is more naturally gifted than RJ.

I'd like to include Cam with that group, but I simply don't know about his mental game.

But you have a running team. Sims can run with them too. I think RJ can be part of an uptempo system, but if you want a Speed Kills team then maybe not.

Not to hard to see this becoming an uptempo team that (GASP! Sacrilege?) could trade both Randle and RJ and focus on the other yutes.

[j4remi]

Dare we say the Knicks have done some development with the youth?

An underrated aspect of the FO's draft strategy has been that they've gone HEAVY on the character tip. Almost every player they've picked came in with a reputation for being a gymrat and a lot of them were forced to make some type of concessions to their game from RJ sharing the ball with other elite players to IQ moving offball and Grimes becoming a defender by necessity. The Knicks got a bunch of players that are willing to put in the work and that goes a long way.

[Clyde_Style]

My talking anus gifs have him a little shook up

i thought you were clyde_style's alt until he clutched his pearls at your debauchery

He's just busting on me like he does to everyone, like we all do

[thebuzzardman]

The only way they can justify keeping Randle is if Mitch walks and Thibs moves him to the 5 and takes the ball out of his hands by letting the guards run the offense. IOW...in a limited role at the position he best fits here. I never want to see him bring the ball up the court ever again. They won't bench him. If they don't trade him...this is the only way he makes sense on this team.

Agreed. There are issues here beyond Randle.
The big one is Thibs, who as Dakomish points out, bears some responsibility for not handling Randle better etc.

Then, it's Thibs again, as if there are going to be minutes for Randle and Obi, either one needs somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes at the 5, which Thibs has shown to be against that kind of thing, always looking for max height and defense at 5 above anything else.

Issues kind of trickle down the roster too. IF the Knicks really want Brunson, and if you think that IQ and Grimes should get minutes, then where do Cam's minutes come from, even if the Knicks move Rose and one of Burks, if Thibs just wants to play Randle 38 minutes all the time and won't give any minutes at the 5 for either Obi or Randle? I'd say there aren't any.

Knicks have a like 4 roster moves that should or kind of need to make.
I get that since Burks/Noel/Rose/Taj all on last year of their deals some of this resolves in a year, but why have another year where young player's development gets impinged?

Oh, and any of the above just assumes the Knicks are fine not really playing Sims. Or, if they want to play Sims, again, how many minutes are Obi or Randle going to get at the 5, if Noel stays mostly healthy even if they let Mitch walk?

[BKlutch]

Let me just state one thing.

I know Austin Reeves had 36, 16, and 10. I know Brisset on the Pacers had 28 points. I’m well aware a lot of scrubs went off in the last few days.

Nobody thinks Obi is a superstar and he’s suddenly gonna drop 30 consistently. Obi is a 15 and 8 player in this league. He’s super athletic, runs the floor extremely well and always finds himself in a position to score. He doesn’t have much of a creative offensive game otherwise. I know his limitations. He’s not going to take anyone off the dribble. But that doesn’t mean he’s not an efficient scorer and a big that can be an above average asset in today’s NBA. Obi is a lot more of a player built for the modern game then Julius Randle. He’s the guy you build with - not around - because he makes your team better offensively.

One major benefit he brings can easily be seen if you look at the highlights -- just look at the floor spacing. It's amazing to watch, because we didn't see it that much with Randle on the court. So even if he is a 15 and 8 player, his points will be high efficiency, but he'll improve the scoring for the rest of the team. I like that.

[rajajackal]

Some folks are getting too wrapped up in body language analysis like we did with Melo. We just don't know what the relationships are.

The issue with Julius is we have the pieces for an up tempo, high movement offense and Julius is a halfcourt ball stopper, and not an elite one at that. RJ has similar issues as a #1 in a half court offense but is well suited for pace as well. If the Knicks move on from Randle:

- best case, they can take a step forward with their younger personnel.
- worst case, you at least see what you have and go back to the drawing board

But if you keep him the team is pulled in two directions from a stylistic standpoint and you end up with the mess on the floor we saw for much of the season.

Obi and IQ and Grimes have the highest upside. RJ may eclipse them all, but he doesn't have the natural gifts they do. Even IQ is more naturally gifted than RJ.

I'd like to include Cam with that group, but I simply don't know about his mental game.

But you have a running team. Sims can run with them too. I think RJ can be part of an uptempo system, but if you want a Speed Kills team then maybe not.

Not to hard to see this becoming an uptempo team that (GASP! Sacrilege?) could trade both Randle and RJ and focus on the other yutes.

as much as i don't want to let robinson go, you might be able to trade randle for turner and leave minutes available for all these guys to make their case next year. then you can decide who to consolidate for the next step

[thebuzzardman]

i want a compilation of all tape featuring IQ, reddish, and toppin on the floor together

It's probably 1 minute from one game

[thebuzzardman]

Crazy how fast things change in life.

A month ago Obi was hurt and Cam had a few nice games. Cam then gets hurt, and Obi comes back only to barely play again. Looked like a meh end to Obi’s season, until he was finally unleashed. Imagine how good it must feel for him to enter the summer after not only getting some 20 point games, but ending with 30 and 40+ point games too. All the sudden the team has more cover and support needed to trade Julius.

Same with IQ. Things were not lookin good for him this year, until the All Star Break. Now he’s showing maybe we dont need another PG. Who knows though, because we never tried starting him there for a long period of time since Burks needed development lol. Id much rather develop him at point than pay a few bags to Brunson tho.

RJ had a rough rookie year, then had a better soph year on a winning team, then started this season badly but took off after the New Year looking like a star, and then kinda fell into inefficiency again. Next year should tell us whether he can be a real star or just a solid starter.

Grimes rode the bench, then covid happened and he broke out, then he got hurt and ended with a whimper. Hopin for a nice comeback with him.

I dont need to mention Julius’s bumpy ride as a Knick. Point is a lot can change in a short time. Gotta stay patient and see where this goes.

Maybe fans need to realize that these guys are all young players and are human and are going to go through growing pains in their development. Problem with 24/7 media is that everyone is so reactionary after a couple of bad games or long slumps

A lot of things went bad this season. This team isn’t as bad as their record suggests. I’m willing to give everyone a pass on this season, even Randle, and hope our guys can put in the work this offseason to come back next season locked-in

Personally, I'm a paradigm of patience

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

?t=4oYgj5fZmRqkeQpRmHYxvw&s=19

Lot of ppl think paying RJ max is disaster waiting to happen

Yeah if he doesn’t make that leap to stardom next year and we max him, it’s gonna look pretty bad. My bet is that he doesn’t make that leap.

[rajajackal]

Read on Twitter

?t=4oYgj5fZmRqkeQpRmHYxvw&s=19

Lot of ppl think paying RJ max is disaster waiting to happen

Yeah if he doesn’t make that leap to stardom next year and we max him, it’s gonna look pretty bad. My bet is that he doesn’t make that leap.

this is why i wanna get a good look at whether or not reddish gels with toppin. if he does, and he's durable enough, you can start entertaining trade packages for elite talent that include RJ

[DaGawd]

Read on Twitter

?t=4oYgj5fZmRqkeQpRmHYxvw&s=19

Lot of ppl think paying RJ max is disaster waiting to happen

Yeah if he doesn’t make that leap to stardom next year and we max him, it’s gonna look pretty bad. My bet is that he doesn’t make that leap.

I have to see how his efficiency was in high school.. I’d say he’s not that far off if he can just up his efficiency by quite a bit.. but he def needs to. Going by his lone year at Duke and first 3 seasons in the league I’m not so sure it’s gonna happen by next season but hopefully for our sake it does.

[Jalen Bluntson]

The only way they can justify keeping Randle is if Mitch walks and Thibs moves him to the 5 and takes the ball out of his hands by letting the guards run the offense. IOW...in a limited role at the position he best fits here. I never want to see him bring the ball up the court ever again. They won't bench him. If they don't trade him...this is the only way he makes sense on this team.

Agreed. There are issues here beyond Randle.
The big one is Thibs, who as Dakomish points out, bears some responsibility for not handling Randle better etc.

Then, it's Thibs again, as if there are going to be minutes for Randle and Obi, either one needs somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes at the 5, which Thibs has shown to be against that kind of thing, always looking for max height and defense at 5 above anything else.

Issues kind of trickle down the roster too. IF the Knicks really want Brunson, and if you think that IQ and Grimes should get minutes, then where do Cam's minutes come from, even if the Knicks move Rose and one of Burks, if Thibs just wants to play Randle 38 minutes all the time and won't give any minutes at the 5 for either Obi or Randle? I'd say there aren't any.

Knicks have a like 4 roster moves that should or kind of need to make.
I get that since Burks/Noel/Rose/Taj all on last year of their deals some of this resolves in a year, but why have another year where young player's development gets impinged?

Oh, and any of the above just assumes the Knicks are fine not really playing Sims. Or, if they want to play Sims, again, how many minutes are Obi or Randle going to get at the 5, if Noel stays mostly healthy even if they let Mitch walk?

Burks AND Evan need to go. Noel...I forgot all about him! He needs to go as well.

Thibs is an issue for sure. He is clueless or just bad at many things. The FO has to force his hand by dumping most of the vets. Nothing else will matter if they don't do that. Thibs threw away the season by refusing to play the kids or hold the vets accountable for poor play. Starting Burks at PG? Really? The man is just terrible at his job.

I'm convinced Thibs and Randle will be here until the end of time!!! I hate this fuggin team!

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

?t=4oYgj5fZmRqkeQpRmHYxvw&s=19

Lot of ppl think paying RJ max is disaster waiting to happen

Yeah if he doesn’t make that leap to stardom next year and we max him, it’s gonna look pretty bad. My bet is that he doesn’t make that leap.

this is why i wanna get a good look at whether or not reddish gels with toppin. if he does, and he's durable enough, you can start entertaining trade packages for elite talent that include RJ

It’s too bad cam got hurt.. he prob would’ve gotten a lot of burn to end the season. I think he’s more talented than RJ, but until he learns how to stay locked in he’s likely gonna be ass for the rest of his career

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

?t=4oYgj5fZmRqkeQpRmHYxvw&s=19

Lot of ppl think paying RJ max is disaster waiting to happen

Yeah if he doesn’t make that leap to stardom next year and we max him, it’s gonna look pretty bad. My bet is that he doesn’t make that leap.

I have to see how his efficiency was in high school.. I’d say he’s not that far off if he can just up his efficiency by quite a bit.. but he def needs to. Going by his lone year at Duke and first 3 seasons in the league I’m not so sure it’s gonna happen by next season but hopefully for our sake it does.

I don’t think he’ll ever be efficient. He has to become a 3 level scorer for it to happen and most of the young stars in the league right now have shown those skills since high school. He still hasn’t

[thebuzzardman]

Brunson, Turner, Bogdan, Zion...who the Knicks going to wind up with?

Probably some aged PF for the larger MLE...

[rajajackal]

Yeah if he doesn’t make that leap to stardom next year and we max him, it’s gonna look pretty bad. My bet is that he doesn’t make that leap.

this is why i wanna get a good look at whether or not reddish gels with toppin. if he does, and he's durable enough, you can start entertaining trade packages for elite talent that include RJ

It’s too bad cam got hurt.. he prob would’ve gotten a lot of burn to end the season. I think he’s more talented than RJ, but until he learns how to stay locked in he’s likely gonna be ass for the rest of his career

he's def more talented but RJ is a pretty effective presence on the court, strong/durable, and a locker room leader. if reddish can produce as a 2-way player i have no problem trading RJ even though i got love for the kid. we'll have to consolidate at some point and i'm not a fan of the fake "zion plan" people float around

[Deeeez Knicks]

i mean you also supported the knicks extending him for another 4 years. so now you gotta live with that.

I tried talking myself into Randle but that was a big mistake. If it was up to me I would have traded him for Batum and tanked last year so I don’t have to support anything

Overall though I don’t buy anything Rose was saying, He was better off not saying anything if he was just going to do a puff piece and not field questions

I mean, if he had played like he did last year it would have been a great contract and you kinda deal with the fact that your franchise is going in two directions. This year, he came in out of shape and didn't play as hard on D or look to move the ball as much. He just doesn't really fit. Who knows what the brass will do but the right direction is pretty clear.

Yea, if he played like last year the contract would be good value and we could still choose to move on to go in a different direction due to the fit. We probably even get some assets back in a deal. Basically everything went wrong where he played awful, with a bad attitude and thus doesn’t fit anywhere and tanking his trade value.

At this point just being able to move on and commit to the youth is a ton of value so take whatever they can get

[rajajackal]

I tried talking myself into Randle but that was a big mistake. If it was up to me I would have traded him for Batum and tanked last year so I don’t have to support anything

Overall though I don’t buy anything Rose was saying, He was better off not saying anything if he was just going to do a puff piece and not field questions

I mean, if he had played like he did last year it would have been a great contract and you kinda deal with the fact that your franchise is going in two directions. This year, he came in out of shape and didn't play as hard on D or look to move the ball as much. He just doesn't really fit. Who knows what the brass will do but the right direction is pretty clear.

Yea, if he played like last year the contract would be good value and we could still choose to move on to go in a different direction due to the fit. We probably even get some assets back in a deal. Basically everything went wrong where he played awful, with a bad attitude and thus doesn’t fit anywhere and tanking his trade value.

At this point just being able to move on and commit to the youth is a ton of value so take whatever they can get

yeah i'm willing to give randle up for a can of tuna at this point because the value is in moving on from the runback plan and committing to the development side of things asap. like leon said, we have a lot of young talent on this roster

[BKlutch]

went to the game. was crazy fun considering the low stakes. Obi and IQ looked like stars

Fun? How can you say it was crazy fun when almost everybody is moaning we didn't win enough or lose enough?

I thought I was the only guy who thinks watching games — especially wins — is fun. Glad I'm not alone!

[TheGreenArrow]

Dolan put the gulag out in the whole team!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now the players aren’t allowed to do exit interviews!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!