FIBA World Cup 2023 (FIRST thread)

[durden_tyler]

It is because the continental cups are held every four years. Eurobasket is the toughest competition in international basketball (there are no F-class teams like Jordan or South Sudan in Eurobasket like there are in FIBA World Cup or Olympics), and you can't have Eurobasket on same year with Olympics or World Cup. Eurobasket certainly isn't the most prestigious cup world-wide (as USA, Argentina and Australia can't take part in it), but as a competition it is the toughest there is.

Sure. Because of such change even the NBA is ignoring the FIBA World Cup now.

Isnt this because of Covid? WC and Olympics always had even number years, while continentals had odd number years. But because we still tailing COvid results and had to delay continentas to 2022 (the year WC supposed to happen), this is how it play out. Or I am wrong? WC and Olympics shouldnt go back to back.

Yeah at some point it should be every 2 years (WC and OLY alternating) but with the next one already scheduled (Qatar 2027) and Olympics LA 2028, i guess we can expect the NBA stars to ignore that too. i agree, they have to change it.

[ShootersShoot]

Looks like this will be an easy Gold for USA

Wow I hope you wont cry if they can't do any better than 7th like the Tatum/Brown/Mitchell led 2019 team did.

How many games tatum play in 2019?

[mrmsix6]

Sorry man, you didn't trigger me, I just thought conversation went this way? I just give you example of how USA isolates itself from learning and information for some reason, because progaganda told you everything foreign will forever be inferior? That stuff should have died with Berlin wall, its over.
Probably a bad example, but that is just something I really care, I just do not get how I am the person who cares that people and children gets killed everyday, and people still bend over folk who care for their toys over people lives. This is not political statement because this shouldn't be political at all.

Better example - in season tournament. It is funny how most countries have domestic sport in season tournaments in most sports, or if they don't have it, they still know how this works. But USA is so isolated from outside world, NBA introduced in season tournament and now everyone in US sports is SHOCKED and try to figure out what it is. Everyone is referring to Champions league. THis is not champions league, there are literally hundreds other cup tournaments you could compare this to, but guys over there have only heard of this Champions league thing, so they bring this up, it is rather sad.

I dont intend to *** on USA or Americans, I am just talking about this phenomena that I realized over the years. It is self isolation from outside world. This is why most flat earhers nowadays are from USA, because people have no clue there are like 88 major, and I mean super major space agencies, they only heard of NASA, so its easy to believe its a lie when you believe theres only one science source of it all.

I, for one, can appreciate the moral superiority of Europeans, who reside in such a place of enlightenment that black football players routinely have banana peels thrown at them to this day.

This isn't the place for your uneducated opinions on American politics, despite your insistence that your incoherent ramblings aren't political. Take it somewhere else.

[UcanUwill]

I, for one, can appreciate the moral superiority of Europeans, who reside in such a place of enlightenment that black football players routinely have banana peels thrown at them to this day.

This isn't the place for your uneducated opinions on American politics, despite your insistence that your incoherent ramblings aren't political. Take it somewhere else.

Man, I am sorry, I don't like when threads go this way, my point is that all of us can and should learn from each other and that every culture has pros and cons. This is IMO an American con, I am not implying it is inferior overall, but most of its problems would not be that problematic if you actually weren't ignoring the rest of the world as example and learned from it.

[Mirotic12]

wht they need is to be realistic about the participants.
stop the " every continent needs some slots".
f that.
24 teams
usa + canada
2 from south america.
1 africa
1 asia
1 oceania.
the rest all from europe
quality

FIBA's system has been extremely unfair to all of the European teams, for many years now. It's absurd how many of the elite European teams miss the Olympics for example.

[Mirotic12]

Looks like this will be an easy Gold for USA

Wow I hope you wont cry if they can't do any better than 7th like the Tatum/Brown/Mitchell led 2019 team did.

How many games tatum play in 2019?

Irrelevant. He was awful in the games he played in.

[lambchop]

wht they need is to be realistic about the participants.
stop the " every continent needs some slots".
f that.
24 teams
usa + canada
2 from south america.
1 africa
1 asia
1 oceania.
the rest all from europe
quality

FIBA's system has been extremely unfair to all of the European teams, for many years now. It's absurd how many of the elite European teams miss the Olympics for example.

Though I agree that it's tough for Euro teams, 2 from South America is still too little. Should definitely be three cause there is usually some combination of Brazil, Argentina, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Mexico that deserves to be there. I think there are currently 5 African teams qualified. That imo is too much and should be 2 to 3.

Anyway, which truly important Euro basketball nation didn't qualify for the WC? Could definitely argue Croatia. Then Russia wasn't allowed to participate too. With your suggested format there would probably even be wacky countries like Austria and Iceland competing.

[homecourtloss]

Countries seem to take examples and lessons from each other, thats how world works. Its only America who chooses to isolate themselves from foreign examples and concepts, they basically free version of North Korea, they not forced into ignorance, they choose the ignorance. thats why they still can't accept the fact and pretend there is no evidence that for examples guns causes their mass shootings, despite the literally world of sample size showing them that it is in fact guns... No, they will blame everything but the guns. You lack rights like free healthcare, education, gambling, but they are free because they have guns, its essential right, king of England can still evade them at any time, how will they defend themselves then?

My guy…we just call the other tournament FIBA. I felt I was respectfully explaining why/how two of the major international tournaments are viewed. While this outburst of yours is distasteful, something I said or about me triggered you and I’m gonna apologize for that. Sorry my guy. This not you.

Sorry man, you didn't trigger me, I just thought conversation went this way? I just give you example of how USA isolates itself from learning and information for some reason, because progaganda told you everything foreign will forever be inferior? That stuff should have died with Berlin wall, its over.
Probably a bad example, but that is just something I really care, I just do not get how I am the person who cares that people and children gets killed everyday, and people still bend over folk who care for their toys over people lives. This is not political statement because this shouldn't be political at all.

Better example - in season tournament. It is funny how most countries have domestic sport in season tournaments in most sports, or if they don't have it, they still know how this works. But USA is so isolated from outside world, NBA introduced in season tournament and now everyone in US sports is SHOCKED and try to figure out what it is. Everyone is referring to Champions league. THis is not champions league, there are literally hundreds other cup tournaments you could compare this to, but guys over there have only heard of this Champions league thing, so they bring this up, it is rather sad.

I dont intend to *** on USA or Americans, I am just talking about this phenomena that I realized over the years. It is self isolation from outside world. This is why most flat earhers nowadays are from USA, because people have no clue there are like 88 major, and I mean super major space agencies, they only heard of NASA, so its easy to believe its a lie when you believe theres only one science source of it all.

Three paragraphs of **** on Americans and the USA…

“I don’t intend to **** on Americans”

Finishes post with more **** on Americans in the next sentence.

[ShootersShoot]

Wow I hope you wont cry if they can't do any better than 7th like the Tatum/Brown/Mitchell led 2019 team did.

How many games tatum play in 2019?

Irrelevant. He was awful in the games he played in.

He was still one of their better players at the time..probably top 3-5 player on the team. Look at their starting lineup against Serbia:

Kemba
DM
Joe harris
HB
Turner

That is beyond terrible. Tatum would have helped at least. He only played in 25% of their games, of course that fact is relevant..along with the fact that the minutes he played in those 2 games would be fourth on the team. Basically my point is why bring up tatum when he only played 2 games?

Are you insinuating team usa couldnt have used jayson tatum for six more games based off a two game sample size?

[UcanUwill]

Hi all, just wanted to apologize you all for my earlier comments, just drop it, ok? Not my intention to insult anyone, I just saw something where some could improve on, I would never crap on something people just can't change. I just woken up from surgery and despite dizzieness, I feel typish, really have almost no one else beside you guys. I don't know if it's like that in other countries, but over here they always ask to write in close personal person and his/hers contacts, and I am at the point, where I will soon need to write in Bisme or Nuntious or god for it Mirotic12, cause I have no one. Just joking, but thanks for understanding. The place I work plan to house lt national team, so that's kind of awesome.

[LuDux1]

Preliminary Lithuanian roster: Jonas Valanciunas, Donatas Motiejunas, Laurynas Birutis, Martynas Sajus, Donatas Tarolis, Eimantas Bendzius, Eigirdas Žukauskas, Tadas Sedekerskis, Mindaugas Kuzminskas, Gytis Radzevičius, Ignas Brazdeikis, Margiris Normantas, Tomas Dimša, Rokas Jokubaitis, Vaidas Kariniauskas
plus few best from Reserve Team (very preliminarily Gabrielius Maldunas, Deividas Sirvydis, Matas Jogela, Dovydas Giedraitis)

[Mirotic12]

He was still one of their better players at the time..probably top 3-5 player on the team. Look at their starting lineup against Serbia:

Kemba
DM
Joe harris
HB
Turner

That is beyond terrible. Tatum would have helped at least. He only played in 25% of their games, of course that fact is relevant..along with the fact that the minutes he played in those 2 games would be fourth on the team. Basically my point is why bring up tatum when he only played 2 games?

Are you insinuating team usa couldnt have used jayson tatum for six more games based off a two game sample size?

I'm simply saying that when he did play, both in the prep games, and in the group stage, he played quite bad. If anything, the team improved without him. I like Tatum a lot as a player, and in theory, on paper, he should be the best player on that US team. But nonetheless, he was really laying bricks and struggling on defense with that US team.

Remember, there are a lot of NBA players that get worse under FIBA rules. Many such examples besides him. Some of the most extreme cases are probably Giannis, D. Sabonis, and Lillard. But there are a lot more. Even Steph Curry for example, who you would think would do great in FIBA play, has been significantly worse under FIBA rules.

[ShootersShoot]

He was still one of their better players at the time..probably top 3-5 player on the team. Look at their starting lineup against Serbia:

Kemba
DM
Joe harris
HB
Turner

That is beyond terrible. Tatum would have helped at least. He only played in 25% of their games, of course that fact is relevant..along with the fact that the minutes he played in those 2 games would be fourth on the team. Basically my point is why bring up tatum when he only played 2 games?

Are you insinuating team usa couldnt have used jayson tatum for six more games based off a two game sample size?

I'm simply saying that when he did play, both in the prep games, and in the group stage, he played quite bad. If anything, the team improved without him. I like Tatum a lot as a player, and in theory, on paper, he should be the best player of that team. But nonetheless, he was really laying bricks and struggling on defense with that US team.

In his last game which was against turkey, a one point game, he played a team high in minutes (31). It goes to show he was one of the more important members of the team even when struggling. Yea, he may have continued to struggle and his presence may not have affected the overall outcomes, but they were counting on him for a big role nonetheless. His injury may have affected the them mentally, having such a prominent member of the team lost for the remainder of the tournament. That stings. Also, in that game against turkey, the entire team shot 35% from the field. You have to consider that Tatum most likely improves as he develops chemistry with the team and as the tournament progressed.

[Mirotic12]

In his last game which was against turkey, a one point game, he played a team high in minutes (31). It goes to show he was one of the more important members of the team even when struggling. Yea, he may have continued to struggle and his presence may not have affected the overall outcomes, but they were counting on him for a big role nonetheless.

That's why I am saying, it's like Giannis or D. Sabonis. Giannis had 1 good FIBA tournament in his career, out of 7 FIBA tournaments, and even in the one where he played good, Greece didn't even get past the quarterfinals. D. Sabonis has been bad in every FIBA tournament.

It's the best player on your team, like Tatum was on the 2019 US team, but some of these NBA players just suck for whatever reason with FIBA rules. Damian Lillard was an absolute disaster with the 2021 US Olympic team. He was regularly getting outplayed by guys that aren't good enough for even secondary leagues in Europe. Maybe Tatum was just not a great FIBA fit.

[ShootersShoot]

I'm simply saying that when he did play, both in the prep games, and in the group stage, he played quite bad. If anything, the team improved without him. I like Tatum a lot as a player, and in theory, on paper, he should be the best player of that team. But nonetheless, he was really laying bricks and struggling on defense with that US team.

In his last game which was against turkey, a one point game, he played a team high in minutes (31). It goes to show he was one of the more important members of the team even when struggling. Yea, he may have continued to struggle and his presence may not have affected the overall outcomes, but they were counting on him for a big role nonetheless.

That's why I am saying, it's like Giannis or D. Sabonis. Giannis had 1 good FIBA tournament in his career, out of 7 FIBA tournaments, and even in the one where he played good, Greece didn't even get past the quarterfinals. D. Sabonis has been bad in every FIBA tournament.

It's the best player on your team, like Tatum was on the 2019 US team, but some of these NBA players just suck for whatever reason with FIBA rules. Damian Lillard was an absolute disaster with the 2021 US Olympic team. He was regularly getting outplayed by guys that aren't good enough for even secondary leagues in Europe. Maybe Tatum was just not a great FIBA fit.

But if Giannis played 2 games in the fiba world cup before getting injured, even if struggling, I wouldnt say his loss would be "irrelevant"..simply because he is counted on for a big role. Even if struggling, they still could use his presence on the team.

And usually guys are struggling playing with different environment and having different usage, it doesnt mean necessarily that losing them for most of the tournament is better for the team overall, although it may be the case sometimes. We do not know what the outcome would have been, but I do feel the team would most likely would have wanted him on the roster than not. If you look at their roster and who was getting minutes, he was basically their best or second best defender.

[Mirotic12]

In his last game which was against turkey, a one point game, he played a team high in minutes (31). It goes to show he was one of the more important members of the team even when struggling. Yea, he may have continued to struggle and his presence may not have affected the overall outcomes, but they were counting on him for a big role nonetheless.

That's why I am saying, it's like Giannis or D. Sabonis. Giannis had 1 good FIBA tournament in his career, out of 7 FIBA tournaments, and even in the one where he played good, Greece didn't even get past the quarterfinals. D. Sabonis has been bad in every FIBA tournament.

It's the best player on your team, like Tatum was on the 2019 US team, but some of these NBA players just suck for whatever reason with FIBA rules. Damian Lillard was an absolute disaster with the 2021 US Olympic team. He was regularly getting outplayed by guys that aren't good enough for even secondary leagues in Europe. Maybe Tatum was just not a great FIBA fit.

You are correct, but if Giannis played 2 games in the fiba world cup before getting injured, even if struggling, I wouldnt say his loss would be "irrelevant"..simply because he is counted on for a big role. Even if struggling, they still could use his presence on the team.

It's highly debatable. Greece had top 1-10 place finishes in all three of the major FIBA tournaments, and a lot of those were top 4 finishes, for like 25 years before Giannis. And that included 5 medals at the three biggest tournaments. With Giannis, they honestly haven't even sniffed a bronze, nor even a semifinals appearance. And it's not like he doesn't have any help. Even when they are missing several players, they still have 4-5 of the best players in Europe on their team.

So it's actually a fact, in the case of Giannis and Greece, that having a great player on your team actually hurts you, if that player plays badly. Even when Giannis played well at the last EuroBasket, his style of play still negates a lot of the other players. The entire game has to revolve around him, or he can't perform well. But with everything revolving around him, his teammates get worse, not better. Some players are elevating their teammates, and he wasn't.

So the great player, like Tatum or Giannis, can't help in a FIBA tournament, unless they play well, and play within a team concept and system. Just how it works. It's not the NBA.

[ShootersShoot]

That's why I am saying, it's like Giannis or D. Sabonis. Giannis had 1 good FIBA tournament in his career, out of 7 FIBA tournaments, and even in the one where he played good, Greece didn't even get past the quarterfinals. D. Sabonis has been bad in every FIBA tournament.

It's the best player on your team, like Tatum was on the 2019 US team, but some of these NBA players just suck for whatever reason with FIBA rules. Damian Lillard was an absolute disaster with the 2021 US Olympic team. He was regularly getting outplayed by guys that aren't good enough for even secondary leagues in Europe. Maybe Tatum was just not a great FIBA fit.

You are correct, but if Giannis played 2 games in the fiba world cup before getting injured, even if struggling, I wouldnt say his loss would be "irrelevant"..simply because he is counted on for a big role. Even if struggling, they still could use his presence on the team.

It's highly debatable. Greece had top 1-10 place finishes in all three of the major FIBA tournaments, and a lot of those were top 4 finishes, for like 25 years before Giannis. And that included 3 medals at the three biggest tournaments. With Giannis, they honestly haven't even sniffed a bronze, nor even a semifinals appearance. And it's not like he doesn't have any help. Even when they are missing several players, they still have 4-5 of the best players in Europe on their team.

So it's actually a fact, in the case of Giannis and Greece, that having a great player on your team actually hurts you, if that player plays badly. Even when Giannis played well at the last EuroBasket, his style of play still negates a lot of the other players. The entire game has to revolve around him, or he can't perform well. But with everything revolving around him, his teammates get worse, not better. Some players are elevating their teammates, and he wasn't.

So the great player, like Tatum or Giannis, can't help in a FIBA tournament, unless they play well, and play within a team concept and system. Just how it works. It's not the NBA.

Well considering team usa lost in 2019 and didnt even medal, I would say they probably would have wanted him on the team. My point is that a loss like that is not irrelevant. Its one of the top players on the team, of course an injury would be relevant.

According to the guy I responded to, he literally brought up tatum as one of the leaders of the team.If he was averaging like 8th or 9th most minutes on the team, then yea mayeb they could just bring in JBrown. But he was one of the leaders in minutes. It ruined the whole game plan. How obvious does it have to be? You act like it was a fact that team usa was better off without him..there is no way of determining that, but based on the role he was playing and the results they got without him, its easily arguable they would have been better off with him. Heck if he was stinking it up so bad, they could have benched him anyways. But its better than not having him at all.

Same thing with dame and giannis, you can easily bench these guys. Not having the option to play them hurts more, especially on a team lacking in depth and experience like 2019 team usa.

[Mirotic12]

Well considering team usa lost in 2019 and didnt even medal, I would say they probably would have wanted him on the team. My point is that a loss like that is not irrelevant. Its one of the top players on the team, of course an injury would be relevant.

According to the guy I responded to, he literally brought up tatum as one of the leaders of the team. If he was averaging like 8th or 9th most minutes on the team, then yea mayeb they could just bring in JBrown. But he was one of the leaders in minutes. It ruined the whole game plan. How obvious does it have to be? You act like it was a fact that team usa was better off without him..there is no way of determining that, but based on the role he was playing and the results they got without him, its easily arguable they would have been better off with him. Heck if he was stinking it up so bad, they could have benched him anyways. But its better than not having him at all.

OK, then it was not irrelevant that Tatum was injured. But they were not getting a medal with him, and might have even finished in a lower place. Unless, he suddenly drastically changes his play. But considering how the team performed in general, they were not getting a gold, even if he suddenly played lights out.

Regardless, in the scope of Team USA winning the gold specifically, his injury was indeed irrelevant. They were not winning gold, even if he was playing, was healthy, and was playing really well. That team was nowhere near good enough. They looked physically and athletically overwhelmed against the better teams.

It was by far and away, by leaps and bounds the least athletic USA team, since they started using NBA players. All of the good European teams were noticeably more athletic.

[ShootersShoot]

Well considering team usa lost in 2019 and didnt even medal, I would say they probably would have wanted him on the team. My point is that a loss like that is not irrelevant. Its one of the top players on the team, of course an injury would be relevant.

According to the guy I responded to, he literally brought up tatum as one of the leaders of the team. If he was averaging like 8th or 9th most minutes on the team, then yea mayeb they could just bring in JBrown. But he was one of the leaders in minutes. It ruined the whole game plan. How obvious does it have to be? You act like it was a fact that team usa was better off without him..there is no way of determining that, but based on the role he was playing and the results they got without him, its easily arguable they would have been better off with him. Heck if he was stinking it up so bad, they could have benched him anyways. But its better than not having him at all.

OK, then it was not irrelevant that Tatum was injured. But they were not getting a medal with him, and might have even finished in a lower place. Unless, he suddenly drastically changes his play. But considering how the team performed in general, they were not getting a gold, even if he suddenly played lights out.

That is most likely true, but we have no way of knowing for sure. HB played 31 minutes in the loss against France and only scored 5 points with the worst +/- on the team. I'm pretty sure team usa would have loved to have tatum available. It very well could have changed the complexion of the game. Or it could not.

If greece places same with or without giannis, you still want to have the option of playing him. I'm just saying if its one of your best guys, you want the option, not that having them would necessarily change the outcome.

I'm not disagreeing they may have not won anything with tatum. It was clearly a badly put together team.

[Mirotic12]

That is most likely true, but we have no way of knowing for sure. HB played 31 minutes in the loss against France and only scored 5 points with the worst +/- on the team. I'm pretty sure team usa would have loved to have tatum available. It very well could have changed the complexion of the game. Or it could not.

If greece places same with or without giannis, you still want to have the option of playing him. I'm just saying if its one of your best guys, you want the option, not that having them would necessarily drastically change the outcome for sure.

The problem is, Greece has gotten significantly worse since Giannis joined their team. He's certainly not the only reason, the federation's incompetence, and some bad coaches were also part of the problem. But, for example, when Giannis didn't play at the 2017 EuroBasket, Greece looked like a team and performed better than they did with Giannis. Then Giannis comes back, and again, they perform badly as a team.

So Greece changed things with a new well respected coach (one of the best in Europe), and he made the entire team revolve solely around Giannis and making sure he gets the ball over and over in optimum situations, and making the whole team operate just to set him up for good looks..........Giannis finally had a good tournament individually, and Greece didn't get past the quarterfinals. Because the other players just didn't get involved. Everything else was guys being iso'd out, or Kostas Sloukas fighting with Giannis for the ball.

The example of Giannis is going on for years and years now. He started repping Greece in 2013, and played in 7 tournaments. They never once could simply put him on the floor and benefit from it. Hasn't happened yet. Again, it's FIBA, not the NBA. Just look at the EuroBasket 2022, Luka, Giannis, Markannen, Jokic, D. Sabonis, Valanciunas - not a single one of them got even a bronze medal. Individual players can't dominate FIBA, even though NBA fans will never accept that reality.