2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[bwgood77]

I think we have the type of team that will really come out hungry after that experience and work hard in the offseason and play both sides of the ball harder and make sure they play hard the full 48 minutes if possible. I don't see them as being overconfident because they made the finals. I think they may hear the chatter about "only made it because of injuries" and still feel they have more to prove...and Booker, Ayton and Bridges will work hard to improve. Booker has already become so much more fully engaged on both sides. The other two were always overall more engaged on both sides (except maybe Ayton on offense and Bridges sometimes a little hesitant on 3s)..but more defensively.

Paul and Crowder were always engaged anyway. Payne pretty much too.

[RunDogGun]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

I mean, it'll be hard for Ayton to draw fewer fouls. Can't remember a big who drew so few. CP3 ain't gonna be diving to the basket more as he ages. I imagine Booker will draw fewer with those "unnatural motion" rules going into effect.

We're just not a very physical team on offense outside of Booker. Maybe Cam could draw some more fouls with additional PT.

[bwoolf2]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

It's more of Ayton and Booker getting calls other stars get, but I think those stars get a few less calls this year so we should move closer the the mean.

The NBA has a real flopping problem and they know it, the Olympics were better brand of basketball because you didn't have the flow interrupted as often with guys jumping into people or flopping and getting calls or Giannis running like a running back into a defender and that defender being called for a foul. Hopefully the league can clean that up and also this 20 seconds at the free throw line where guys are taking practice shots then getting the ball is just awful television, you get to the li e you got 10 seconds lets not turn this into baseball

[lilfishi22]

Seth Partnow of the Athletic started counting down a tier ranked player ranking of the top 125 players.

The first (bottom) tier was 5, and we had two players mentioned, one as the last five in (somewhere between 121 and 125..first listed so probably 121) and it was Payne.

And then we had the first player on first five out (so didn't make top 125) and it was Cam Johnson.

Tier 4 included Ayton, Bridges and Crowder..not exactly sure where they placed, though it looks like they may have been ranked in order, because Brandon Ingram and CJ McCollum are at the top of tier, along with Capela, Fox, DeRozan, Sabonis, VanVleet and Hayward.

It also included Randle, Lowry, Brogdon, Turner and Vucevic.

The above players in group 4 were all "4A".

Our 3 in the 4 tier were in 4B.

Yesterday they did Tier 3, and Booker was at the top of tier 3 (3A), along with Trae Young, Jrue and Zion.

3B still had great players like Beal, MItchell, Morant, Towns, Conley and SGA.

And 3C had Simmons, Jaylen Brown, Siakam and LaVine.

Today they got to tier 2.

2A was AD, Embiid and Luka. 2B was Lillard, Butler, George and Gobert.

2C was Bam, CP3, Tatum, Middleton and Kyrie.

Tier 1 will be tomorrow.

Is Jamal Murray in that 3A or 3B tier?

[lilfishi22]

Question...if Klay is completely healthy, how good do you think the Warriors are? Do you think they could compete for a top seed with a completely healthy Curry/Klay/Draymond along with Wiggins, Looney, an improved Wiseman, Iggy, Otto Porter, Bjelica, and their rookies Kuminga and Moody?

I didn't think they were any good before last season began but MVP Steph kept them in the hunt in a very tough western conference. With Klay, assuming healthy and basically looking like old Klay, I think they could definitely be a home court level team. Just having a secondary elite shooter next to Steph makes them exponentially more difficult to defend against, it takes a ton of pressure of everyone so anyone who was expected to carry some level of offensive load like Wiggins or even Draymond will see easier shots/passes. Imagine replacing Oubre barely 30% shooting from 3 and overall inefficiency with one of the best shooting and efficient scorers in the league.

Adding talent doesn't necessarily make you a definitive good team but when that talent fits with the team, it makes a world of difference. You couldn't ask for a better elite player coming back for them.

Of course, this is all assuming Klay and the rest of the team are relatively healthy.

[lilfishi22]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

I mean, it'll be hard for Ayton to draw fewer fouls. Can't remember a big who drew so few. CP3 ain't gonna be diving to the basket more as he ages. I imagine Booker will draw fewer with those "unnatural motion" rules going into effect.

We're just not a very physical team on offense outside of Booker. Maybe Cam could draw some more fouls with additional PT.

Both Booker and CP3 won't get the benefit of the doubt, unnartural motion fouls anymore so it'll be a lot harder for them to draw fouls. I just hope they don't apply a double standard with the refs in-game interpretation of that rule and continue giving those fouls to the Lebron's and Steph's of the world

[matt131]

Lol wut

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Seems like Ayton deleted this tweet.

It read: "JwehgleebuMaHuH"

[bwgood77]

This is interesting...Hollinger....mainly the last paragraph...he lists the winners in FA..and the Spurs were one of them, and on top of getting Young (who he said they could move at the deadline for more draft capital, that they got 1 FRP and 2 second round picks for DeRozan and they should also have max cap space next summer.

The Spurs also took some well-thought-out gambles, most notably with a three-year, $22 million deal for Zach Collins that is 50 percent guaranteed. Collins may be either too injured or not quite skilled enough to make an impact, but San Antonio gave itself a chance to win big on this contract if everything breaks right, with near-zero downside given its cap situation. Australian big man Jock Landale, meanwhile, has some Aron Baynes 2.0 possibilities.

One surprise to monitor: They went for Doug McDermott instead of Lauri Markkanen. The Spurs easily could have thrown the latter name into the DeRozan deal but instead gave McDermott three years and $42 million. The Spurs need shooting, had the room and his contract doesn’t seem to take them out of any future possibilities, but this is definitely at the high end of McDermott’s value.

[bwgood77]

Seth Partnow of the Athletic started counting down a tier ranked player ranking of the top 125 players.

The first (bottom) tier was 5, and we had two players mentioned, one as the last five in (somewhere between 121 and 125..first listed so probably 121) and it was Payne.

And then we had the first player on first five out (so didn't make top 125) and it was Cam Johnson.

Tier 4 included Ayton, Bridges and Crowder..not exactly sure where they placed, though it looks like they may have been ranked in order, because Brandon Ingram and CJ McCollum are at the top of tier, along with Capela, Fox, DeRozan, Sabonis, VanVleet and Hayward.

It also included Randle, Lowry, Brogdon, Turner and Vucevic.

The above players in group 4 were all "4A".

Our 3 in the 4 tier were in 4B.

Yesterday they did Tier 3, and Booker was at the top of tier 3 (3A), along with Trae Young, Jrue and Zion.

3B still had great players like Beal, MItchell, Morant, Towns, Conley and SGA.

And 3C had Simmons, Jaylen Brown, Siakam and LaVine.

Today they got to tier 2.

2A was AD, Embiid and Luka. 2B was Lillard, Butler, George and Gobert.

2C was Bam, CP3, Tatum, Middleton and Kyrie.

Tier 1 will be tomorrow.

Is Jamal Murray in that 3A or 3B tier?

3B. If the tiers are listed in order by players, Booker would be the #1 player in 3A, which includes only 4 players so he'd be ranked #20.

Murray is in tier 3B and would be 27, the 4th player in 3B behind Beal, Mitchell, and Morant.

Here was tier 2, released today:

Tier 2: Players 8-19

A
Anthony Davis
Joel Embiid
Luka Doncic
B
Damian Lillard
Jimmy Butler
Paul George
Rudy Gobert
C
Bam Adebayo
Chris Paul
Jayson Tatum
Khris Middleton
Kyrie Irving

Booker was ranked just under Kyrie but I think he's probably in that 2C tier now...I could see an argument for Gobert being in that tier, but I guess I am thinking more of the playoffs. Most think he was by far the overall #1 seed Jazz' most important player this season.

Complete Tier 3:

Tier 3: Players 20-36
A
Devin Booker
Jrue Holiday
Trae Young
Zion Williamson

B
Bradley Beal
Donovan Mitchell
Ja Morant
Jamal Murray
Karl-Anthony Towns
Mike Conley
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

C
Ben Simmons
Draymond Green
Jaylen Brown
Pascal Siakam
Russell Westbrook
Zach LaVine

[Ghost of Kleine]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Cam Payne said this morning on @DougandWolf987 that he never wanted to leave the Phoenix Suns in free agency.

Payne mentioned how Monty Williams changed his life giving him an opportunity before the bubble, and he wanted to show loyalty back to the organization on a 3-year deal.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[bwgood77]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

It's more of Ayton and Booker getting calls other stars get, but I think those stars get a few less calls this year so we should move closer the the mean.

The NBA has a real flopping problem and they know it, the Olympics were better brand of basketball because you didn't have the flow interrupted as often with guys jumping into people or flopping and getting calls or Giannis running like a running back into a defender and that defender being called for a foul. Hopefully the league can clean that up and also this 20 seconds at the free throw line where guys are taking practice shots then getting the ball is just awful television, you get to the li e you got 10 seconds lets not turn this into baseball

Well hopefully these new flopping rules should really impact that kind of play. I imagine we have fewer shots at the rim than most teams, which is when most fouls are going to be called, and to be honest, those are typically high % shots anyway. A guy like Giannis going to the line instead of the rim is usually a good thing, but of course in that last game he shot the hell out of it from the line.

I just wish they allowed more physical play. Almost so much so that no player would ever argue about a call because fouls are not called often unless they are blatant.

[Bogyo]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

It's more of Ayton and Booker getting calls other stars get, but I think those stars get a few less calls this year so we should move closer the the mean.

The NBA has a real flopping problem and they know it, the Olympics were better brand of basketball because you didn't have the flow interrupted as often with guys jumping into people or flopping and getting calls or Giannis running like a running back into a defender and that defender being called for a foul. Hopefully the league can clean that up and also this 20 seconds at the free throw line where guys are taking practice shots then getting the ball is just awful television, you get to the li e you got 10 seconds lets not turn this into baseball

Well hopefully these new flopping rules should really impact that kind of play. I imagine we have fewer shots at the rim than most teams, which is when most fouls are going to be called, and to be honest, those are typically high % shots anyway. A guy like Giannis going to the line instead of the rim is usually a good thing, but of course in that last game he shot the hell out of it from the line.

I just wish they allowed more physical play. Almost so much so that no player would ever argue about a call because fouls are not called often unless they are blatant.

Oh, don't worry. Physical play was always allowed and will be. To Dennis Rodman, then Bruce Bowen, now Jrue Holiday, PJ Tucker and Giannis.

[cberry78]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

It's more of Ayton and Booker getting calls other stars get, but I think those stars get a few less calls this year so we should move closer the the mean.

The NBA has a real flopping problem and they know it, the Olympics were better brand of basketball because you didn't have the flow interrupted as often with guys jumping into people or flopping and getting calls or Giannis running like a running back into a defender and that defender being called for a foul. Hopefully the league can clean that up and also this 20 seconds at the free throw line where guys are taking practice shots then getting the ball is just awful television, you get to the li e you got 10 seconds lets not turn this into baseball

Well hopefully these new flopping rules.....

[RedIndian]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

Unfortunately, the only way to address this is through internal development.

CP3 is too old, and his trips to the line will likely decrease even more.

Book gets to the line about 6-7 times a game, which is fine. I don't think he's the sort to average 8-10 trips a game the way Harden, Luka and Trae can. He's physical enough, but his ball-handling isn't at the level of those guys, so he can't quite bait defenders the way those guys can.

Bridges could maybe get to the line a bit more, but again his ball-handling is limited and he rarely takes it to the rim when he's attacking. Prefers pulling up for the midrange, which is fine, because he's quite good at it.

Really, the ones you can hope something from are Ayton, Cam Johnson and Payne. Payne did attack the rim a lot in the playoffs up until his ankle injuries, but it was mostly using the first step to blow past big guys and use an angle to finish. Hopefully, he starts really getting into the teeth of the defense. Would be a big boost if he could average like 3 trips to the line in 20 mins off the bench.

Likewise, for Cam Johnson, he's strong and athletic enough to attack the basket. Just needs to be more comfortable handling the ball and attacking off the dribble. At the moment, it's mostly just attacking closeouts.

The biggest one is Ayton. 2.5 trips a game for such a huge, athletic guy is pitiful. All of it comes from the fact that he simply refuses to attack the basket on his own. And that stems from complete lack of confidence in dribbling the basketball. Ayton finishes great off the pick and roll, but it's the short rolls where his limitations really arise. All I want him working on is attacking the basket with single-dribble drives on those short rolls. He does that consistently, and those 2.5 trips will turn to 5 trips a game very easily. He's simply too big and athletic not to be fouled once he does attack.

Comfort in ball-handling is really the key to getting more trips to the FT line.

[Saberestar]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

Sam Cooper, who used to write here and is a co-host on the Timeline podcast was talking about advance stats that show that we are a bad team driving to the rim.

Those stas show that Ayton and Bridges are very good finishing at the rim but they do not drive with the ball to the rim. CP3 and Crowder does not go with the ball to the rim neither. We need more balance on that.

And here is where the Elfrid Payton's signing makes sense for the Suns. He is one of the best in the entire league driving to the rim and he will help us for sure in that regard.

Not sure if that addition will translate in more FTAs per game, but it is possible.

[RedIndian]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

Sam Cooper, who used to write here and is a co-host on the Timeline podcast was talking about advance stats that show that we are a bad team driving to the rim.

Those stas show that Ayton and Bridges are very good finishing at the rim but they do not drive with the ball to the rim. CP3 and Crowder does not go with the ball to the rim neither. We need more balance on that.

And here is where the Elfrid Payton's signing makes sense for the Suns. He is one of the best in the entire league driving to the rim and he will help us for sure in that regard.

Not sure if that addition will translate in more FTAs per game, but it is possible.

Yeah, I was listening to that. But really, that's being hugely optimistic. Payton has good size, is athletic and a good ball-handler. He does get to the rim, because that's likely the only way he can score given that his jump shot sucks. That said, while he does get to the rim, he's a putrid finisher once he gets there. Also doesn't translate to very many FTAs. The best he's done in his career is 2.8 FTAs. That's okayish I suppose, but again it becomes meaningless because he shoots only 63% at the line.

Let's face it - Payton won't help at all. He's a 3rd stringer, who'll only play in case of injuries.

[Saberestar]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

Sam Cooper, who used to write here and is a co-host on the Timeline podcast was talking about advance stats that show that we are a bad team driving to the rim.

Those stas show that Ayton and Bridges are very good finishing at the rim but they do not drive with the ball to the rim. CP3 and Crowder does not go with the ball to the rim neither. We need more balance on that.

And here is where the Elfrid Payton's signing makes sense for the Suns. He is one of the best in the entire league driving to the rim and he will help us for sure in that regard.

Not sure if that addition will translate in more FTAs per game, but it is possible.

Yeah, I was listening to that. But really, that's being hugely optimistic. Payton has good size, is athletic and a good ball-handler. He does get to the rim, because that's likely the only way he can score given that his jump shot sucks. That said, while he does get to the rim, he's a putrid finisher once he gets there. Also doesn't translate to very many FTAs. The best he's done in his career is 2.8 FTAs. That's okayish I suppose, but again it becomes meaningless because he shoots only 63% at the line.

Let's face it - Payton won't help at all. He's a 3rd stringer, who'll only play in case of injuries.

I think he is gonna play more that what we thought, because he probably is not our third string PG and he is more our fifth G.

Yeah, it's similar but he will play more minutes as a fifth G because he will play rotation minutes when any of CP3, Payne, Book or Shamet can't play for whatever reason. Pretty sure that we will go with a 10-man rotation in the RS.

Last year we had Moore, Carter and Galloway to give us G depth and this next season we will only have Shamet and Elfrid.

[Barkley6]

Out of the 16 playoff teams, the Suns went to the line the least. Since we didn't change much, how do we fix this? Is there a player we could get to change this? And it wasn't because we shot too many threes, on that I think we were 13th.

Can Paul (3.4/gm but best ft% in the league) draw more fouls? Ayton? Booker?

Unfortunately, the only way to address this is through internal development.

CP3 is too old, and his trips to the line will likely decrease even more.

Book gets to the line about 6-7 times a game, which is fine. I don't think he's the sort to average 8-10 trips a game the way Harden, Luka and Trae can. He's physical enough, but his ball-handling isn't at the level of those guys, so he can't quite bait defenders the way those guys can.

Bridges could maybe get to the line a bit more, but again his ball-handling is limited and he rarely takes it to the rim when he's attacking. Prefers pulling up for the midrange, which is fine, because he's quite good at it.

Really, the ones you can hope something from are Ayton, Cam Johnson and Payne. Payne did attack the rim a lot in the playoffs up until his ankle injuries, but it was mostly using the first step to blow past big guys and use an angle to finish. Hopefully, he starts really getting into the teeth of the defense. Would be a big boost if he could average like 3 trips to the line in 20 mins off the bench.

Likewise, for Cam Johnson, he's strong and athletic enough to attack the basket. Just needs to be more comfortable handling the ball and attacking off the dribble. At the moment, it's mostly just attacking closeouts.

The biggest one is Ayton. 2.5 trips a game for such a huge, athletic guy is pitiful. All of it comes from the fact that he simply refuses to attack the basket on his own. And that stems from complete lack of confidence in dribbling the basketball. Ayton finishes great off the pick and roll, but it's the short rolls where his limitations really arise. All I want him working on is attacking the basket with single-dribble drives on those short rolls. He does that consistently, and those 2.5 trips will turn to 5 trips a game very easily. He's simply too big and athletic not to be fouled once he does attack.

Comfort in ball-handling is really the key to getting more trips to the FT line.

Exactly this. If Ayton developed anything close to a comfortable handle, there is no reason he couldn't do what Giannis does, he has the speed and athleticism to do it, he just lacks the confidence in his handle. I remember last offseason there was a big debate about "Should Ayton add a 3 point shot to his game?" Frankly, after watching Giannis in the Finals, I think Ayton needs to get a better face up game. Because the difference with Ayton is that if you cut off his dribble, he can pull up comfortably from 18ft and hit at a decent rate.

This is also a reason I'm a little hesitant to deal Jalen Smith, because he has good handles on the ball and with a little bulk, he could be similar in his ability to get to the cup AND he already has a smooth 3pt shot.

I don't think Smith will be anywhere near Giannis level, BUT, it's worth remembering that Giannis' first few years in the league were nothing spectacular. Smith has a ton of tools, that if developed correctly, could give us a very talented player in a couple years.

[Barkley6]

Something I wanted to bring up was recently on the Locked on Suns podcast, and they were talking about how the Suns are punting on youth a little bit by forgoing the draft, but I don't necessarily think that's the case. Smith -21, Ayton -23, Booker-24, Bridges -24, Shamet-24, CamJo -25, Payne-27.

That's half the roster, and almost our entire core, that is on the younger side. If we didn't add a draft pick to that group for another year or two, it's not like we'd suddenly find ourselves as an aging team, particularly if Smith can become a rotation player within 2 years. You can argue that it starts to become expensive, but at the same time you're likely moving on from Crowder and Saric within the next 2 years, which is a $20m savings, and then CP3 in the next 2-4 years, which saves up to $30m. So it's not like we are in dire straits with our long term finances either.

We do need to find a PG of the future to take over from CP3 when he retires or begins to break down, but that's really the only glaring weakness in this roster for the foreseeable future. And I have SOME belief that Cam Payne could be a starting guard in this league.

The point being, I think that dealing the pick this year is a bit overblown in terms of us stocking up on young talent. We are full of young talent, and they are getting better all the time. If by his 3rd year, Smith can beat our Dario and Crowder, then we are pretty well set in terms of talent and roster construction, so long as we add a good young PG at some point in the next two seasons.