Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV (Must read Post 1)

[zonedefense]

CA is doing 1/3rd the tests, with 2x the population, they simply don't have the tests to draw any comparisons.

I think the 10k tests that CA has done so far provide a pretty good sample. In any case, NY is just a terrible place to try to contain a virus.

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NY is smaller than Hubei province & South Korea, it's possible as long as they test, test, test.

Not about the size but about time passed and untracked cases. South Korea tried to track every single infection chain. That´s only possible if you do it from the very beginning.

[LKN]

I think the 10k tests that CA has done so far provide a pretty good sample. In any case, NY is just a terrible place to try to contain a virus.

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NY is smaller than Hubei province & South Korea, it's possible as long as they test, test, test.

Not about the size but about time passed and untracked cases. South Korea tried to track every single infection chain. That´s only possible if you do it from the very beginning.

Only option now is to shut everything down an ramp up testing as fast as possible

[LKN]

Which has more crowds? Waiting for a pizza in your car or in the walk up window? Or the lines at your local grocery store?

Somebody puts the food in the bag too at the grocery store, and scans it across the scanner (although if you have self checkout seems like a good time). But still you're touching all these things. With pizza, run your card, grab your hot pizza, and go!

You have a point. I'll admit wrestling with rationality and emotion when making decisions. A post earlier in this thread gave a link to a study about how the virus does on surfaces. Cardboard (i.e. pizza boxes) was the least hospitable surface for the virus if I remember right, so there's something to be said for getting pizza.

Sorry if I'm about to scare you;

Watch on YouTube

Lasts for up to 3 hours on cardboard, at least according to this video.

Spray and wipe everything down... its the only solution. And then wash your hands!

[AussieCeltic]

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Wow. As if they won't buy stocks and let these people fry anyway.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

It's a pretty stark difference to how Quantas is acting here in Australia.

As far as I understand they are getting some kind of money relief from the government but they're already working with other companies (supermarket chains and telecommunications for example) to find their staff work during the crisis.

QANTAS did do a buy back last year though to raise their share prices. Great for share holders, not so much for employees

[LKN]

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Blame Boris Johnson for not putting controls in. The same will happen here just watch

Maybe they'll get to do their herd immunity experiment after all

[shangrila]

I'm an Australian that lives in Santa Clara County. Mostly I still read the Australian news and I'm starting to get pretty worried about them over there.

Sydney and Melbourne are just hitting winter and flu season right when the peak of the coronavirus is mean to hit. Those cities have a pretty dry climate as well so they won't get any reprieve from high humidity.

From the looks of the news it doesn't appear like anyone really cares there. Anyone from Australia notice that it's quieter on the street and are people distancing properly?

It's a little hard to tell.

I work in a Woolworths supermarket, and a smaller one in a medium sized suburb, and that's about all I'm leaving the house for these days (helps that I can do whatever shopping I need there). Roads are more or less the same from what I can see (still see plenty on the roads at 5am and still get the school rush at 3pm) but my dad works in the state electoral commission and they're gearing up to start working from home, and I know more than a few companies that have already started that.

In terms of the supermarkets...well, there's not much that can change. Aisles aren't designed for social distancing. I'll brush shoulders with dozens if not hundreds of people over my 9 hour shift, not to mention the amount of time I'm spending just talking to people to explain what's going on (not that I know much either). And it's an essential service, so there's always going to be people there.

I think people are taking it seriously but conversely we're not in the same situation as some other countries. We haven't had to go into any sort of lockdown (yet, not that that will do anything for me) and our cases are relatively low in terms of per 1mil population (though that could be a testing thing).

The real issue is just not knowing and, as you pointed out, the fact that the flu season is here and this virus has incredibly similar symptoms. I've had a sore throat and mild fever for the better part of a week now but I've got no idea if I've actually caught COVID or if it's just the weather combined with the fact I work in the freezer section (that fridge air always does a number on my throat). And as far as I can tell I shouldn't get tested because my symptoms aren't severe enough (nor, to be fair, do they match up entirely. I don't have a cough for example). But then I get stressed because maybe I have it and I'm spreading it at work, but then work is so busy I can't afford to really take time off, which then stresses me more and probably screws with my immune system making my issues even worse and rinse and repeat. Ugh.

I can see the cases are ramping up here though so I'm prepared for lockdowns coming soon.

[LKN]

Can someone explain what their justification is for excluding the low income people? Don't tell me burns like "hate poor people". I mean what is the logic or justification they're trying to play? I can't come up with one. Best I can think is something like since they don't pay taxes they don't get relief? Kinda like how you can't give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes. I can't come up with anything else.

Very likely because they don't pay federal income tax (although they of course pay FICA, sales tax, etc).

It's stupid... one of the most successful ideas Republicans ever agreed to is the earned income tax credit - which is literally giving people money instead of having them pay taxes. They found it actually encouraged employment and lowered poverty.

I mean, I know you don't want to hear "they hate poor people"... however there are mountains of evidence that they are in favor of treating the poor cruelly. Drug tests for food stamps, work requirements for medicaid, putting homeless people in jail... and the list goes on.

[Pointgod]

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Blame Boris Johnson for not putting controls in. The same will happen here just watch

People keep voting in clowns and are surprised when they don’t take things seriously.

[shangrila]

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Wow. As if they won't buy stocks and let these people fry anyway.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

It's a pretty stark difference to how Quantas is acting here in Australia.

As far as I understand they are getting some kind of money relief from the government but they're already working with other companies (supermarket chains and telecommunications for example) to find their staff work during the crisis.

QANTAS did do a buy back last year though to raise their share prices. Great for share holders, not so much for employees

Yeah, I didn't say they were perfect. I never liked how the CEO used the entire company to push his own political agenda (marriage equality, which I was always in favour of BTW) for example. But I thought it was worth mentioning the different approaches the two companies were taking. Whatever they've done in the past or might do in the future, they at least deserve credit for this.

[Richfield]

Lasts for up to 3 hours on cardboard, at least according to this video.

Thanks for that!

I believe it even said 24 hours in the video, about the cardboard.

In the context of Pizza, I think it really depends on the operation, how much contact people have with the cardboard, how long they work with it, how many, if they're using protective stuff, etc. For instance I'd prefer a quick takeout to delivery. Less time with the driver. And other little details.

But sometimes gut feelings can be dead wrong. Will always keep that in mind.

[shangrila]

Can someone explain what their justification is for excluding the low income people? Don't tell me burns like "hate poor people". I mean what is the logic or justification they're trying to play? I can't come up with one. Best I can think is something like since they don't pay taxes they don't get relief? Kinda like how you can't give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes. I can't come up with anything else.

Very likely because they don't pay federal income tax (although they of course pay FICA, sales tax, etc).

It's stupid... one of the most successful ideas Republicans ever agreed to is the earned income tax credit - which is literally giving people money instead of having them pay taxes. They found it actually encouraged employment and lowered poverty.

I mean, I know you don't want to hear "they hate poor people"... however there are mountains of evidence that they are in favor of treating the poor cruelly. Drug tests for food stamps, work requirements for medicaid, putting homeless people in jail... and the list goes on.

Not to de-rail too much but I've never understood why people would be against things like this. There was some talk of it in Australia years back (one senator didn't like that new legislation wouldn't allow welfare recipients to spend that money on smokes, porn and alcohol for example) but...like, this stuff isn't free. You need to know you're not just giving it to someone so they can piss it away on whatever vices might have landed them in that situation to begin with. Welfare is more or less to keep you alive. To keep you fed and sheltered. It's not, nor should it ever be, simply a wad of cash handed to people who can't support themselves.

Would it be insulting to some people? Sure, I can imagine being annoyed by it myself. But it's necessary to ensure the system functions properly and everyone follows the rules.

EDIT: I'll amend this slightly. Didn't realise it was food stamps and not general welfare, which would already be a measure to ensure people are using the stuff correctly. So yeah, drug tests on top might be excessive. I'm not sure I'd call it cruel though.

[shangrila]

Lasts for up to 3 hours on cardboard, at least according to this video.

Thanks for that!

I believe it even said 24 hours in the video, about the cardboard.

In the context of Pizza, I think it really depends on the operation, how much contact people have with the cardboard, how long they work with it, how many, if they're using protective stuff, etc. For instance I'd prefer a quick takeout to delivery. Less time with the driver. And other little details.

But sometimes gut feelings can be dead wrong. Will always keep that in mind.

It was 24hrs on stainless steel and plastic. Cardboard was 3, copper was 4 and I think the virus in general can survive up to 3 hours elsewhere too.

[Richfield]

These crybaby airlines can deal with it like the rest of everybody else. Gov't has bigger priorities right now, like people. If they need to stay grounded for a while so be it.

Country has been talking about new rail infrastructure for YEARS if not decades. What a better time, when people need jobs? After this thing is under control of course. Let the gov't put their money into THAT.

Airlines should worry about figuring out a healthier way to fly before asking for bailout money. People always getting sick on airlines. And I'm not just talking corona. Step up the air filter and circulation game. Something!

If you build it.. we will come. (along just fine).

Talking out of my behind but that's okay in this case. I might be right.

[LKN]

This pretty much says it all. Canada may be the people who end up building the wall

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[shangrila]

These crybaby airlines can deal with it like the rest of everybody else. Gov't has bigger priorities right now, like people. If they need to stay grounded for a while so be it.

Country has been talking about new rail infrastructure for YEARS if not decades. What a better time, when people need jobs? After this thing is under control of course. Let the gov't put their money into THAT.

Airlines should worry about figuring out a healthier way to fly before asking for bailout money. People always getting sick on airlines. And I'm not just talking corona. Step up the air filter and circulation game. Something!

If you build it.. we will come. (along just fine).

Talking out of my behind but that's okay in this case. I might be right.

The issue is the employees that would lose their income. They'd go on unemployment which would put a further strain on the government when they're (or should be) scrambling to keep the economy afloat.

I'm not saying I agree with the way they've acted, almost holding their employees as a ransom, but the threat is real and significant.

[LKN]

Can someone explain what their justification is for excluding the low income people? Don't tell me burns like "hate poor people". I mean what is the logic or justification they're trying to play? I can't come up with one. Best I can think is something like since they don't pay taxes they don't get relief? Kinda like how you can't give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes. I can't come up with anything else.

Very likely because they don't pay federal income tax (although they of course pay FICA, sales tax, etc).

It's stupid... one of the most successful ideas Republicans ever agreed to is the earned income tax credit - which is literally giving people money instead of having them pay taxes. They found it actually encouraged employment and lowered poverty.

I mean, I know you don't want to hear "they hate poor people"... however there are mountains of evidence that they are in favor of treating the poor cruelly. Drug tests for food stamps, work requirements for medicaid, putting homeless people in jail... and the list goes on.

Not to de-rail too much but I've never understood why people would be against things like this. There was some talk of it in Australia years back (one senator didn't like that new legislation wouldn't allow welfare recipients to spend that money on smokes, porn and alcohol for example) but...like, this stuff isn't free. You need to know you're not just giving it to someone so they can piss it away on whatever vices might have landed them in that situation to begin with. Welfare is more or less to keep you alive. To keep you fed and sheltered. It's not, nor should it ever be, simply a wad of cash handed to people who can't support themselves.

Would it be insulting to some people? Sure, I can imagine being annoyed by it myself. But it's necessary to ensure the system functions properly and everyone follows the rules.

EDIT: I'll amend this slightly. Didn't realise it was food stamps and not general welfare, which would already be a measure to ensure people are using the stuff correctly. So yeah, drug tests on top might be excessive. I'm not sure I'd call it cruel though.

I can tell you exactly why we shouldn't do it (some places have tried it and it's done almost nothing)

- It doesn't work (almost no one tests positive - so it saves almost no money)
- It's stupid to starve people's kids because they do drugs
- It's a giant waste of money (since again, almost no one tests positive so the money spent to test people is wasted)
- It's means treating anyone who needs help like a subhuman.

Stigmatizing being poor is just dumb and counterproductive.

[Crizzle]

These crybaby airlines can deal with it like the rest of everybody else. Gov't has bigger priorities right now, like people. If they need to stay grounded for a while so be it.

Country has been talking about new rail infrastructure for YEARS if not decades. What a better time, when people need jobs? After this thing is under control of course. Let the gov't put their money into THAT.

Airlines should worry about figuring out a healthier way to fly before asking for bailout money. People always getting sick on airlines. And I'm not just talking corona. Step up the air filter and circulation game. Something!

If you build it.. we will come. (along just fine).

Talking out of my behind but that's okay in this case. I might be right.

i dont know if it actually anything realistic, but the infrastructure changes would be a big step moving forward.

[LKN]

We are in big trouble. Shelter in place if you can, especially if you are in the NYC area.

We still are testing almost no one and the results are terrifying:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

NY alone had 3,031 new cases yesterday.

Best wishes to all - stay safe and as hard as it is... try to get a good nights sleep (esp if you are in the NYC area). Sleep really does help your immune system

[shangrila]

Very likely because they don't pay federal income tax (although they of course pay FICA, sales tax, etc).

It's stupid... one of the most successful ideas Republicans ever agreed to is the earned income tax credit - which is literally giving people money instead of having them pay taxes. They found it actually encouraged employment and lowered poverty.

I mean, I know you don't want to hear "they hate poor people"... however there are mountains of evidence that they are in favor of treating the poor cruelly. Drug tests for food stamps, work requirements for medicaid, putting homeless people in jail... and the list goes on.

Not to de-rail too much but I've never understood why people would be against things like this. There was some talk of it in Australia years back (one senator didn't like that new legislation wouldn't allow welfare recipients to spend that money on smokes, porn and alcohol for example) but...like, this stuff isn't free. You need to know you're not just giving it to someone so they can piss it away on whatever vices might have landed them in that situation to begin with. Welfare is more or less to keep you alive. To keep you fed and sheltered. It's not, nor should it ever be, simply a wad of cash handed to people who can't support themselves.

Would it be insulting to some people? Sure, I can imagine being annoyed by it myself. But it's necessary to ensure the system functions properly and everyone follows the rules.

EDIT: I'll amend this slightly. Didn't realise it was food stamps and not general welfare, which would already be a measure to ensure people are using the stuff correctly. So yeah, drug tests on top might be excessive. I'm not sure I'd call it cruel though.

I can tell you exactly why we shouldn't do it (some places have tried it and it's done almost nothing)

- It doesn't work (almost no one tests positive - so it saves almost no money)
- It's stupid to starve people's kids because they do drugs
- It's a giant waste of money (since again, almost no one tests positive so the money spent to test people is wasted)
- It's means treating anyone who needs help like a subhuman.

Stigmatizing being poor is just dumb and counterproductive.

I won't go in too deep because I don't want to de-rail. All I'll say is that I disagree that tests like this inherently stigmatize being poor and even just the threat of them can serve a purpose.

[Ayt]

Can someone explain what their justification is for excluding the low income people? Don't tell me burns like "hate poor people". I mean what is the logic or justification they're trying to play? I can't come up with one. Best I can think is something like since they don't pay taxes they don't get relief? Kinda like how you can't give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes. I can't come up with anything else.

Very likely because they don't pay federal income tax (although they of course pay FICA, sales tax, etc).

It's stupid... one of the most successful ideas Republicans ever agreed to is the earned income tax credit - which is literally giving people money instead of having them pay taxes. They found it actually encouraged employment and lowered poverty.

I mean, I know you don't want to hear "they hate poor people"... however there are mountains of evidence that they are in favor of treating the poor cruelly. Drug tests for food stamps, work requirements for medicaid, putting homeless people in jail... and the list goes on.

Not to de-rail too much but I've never understood why people would be against things like this. There was some talk of it in Australia years back (one senator didn't like that new legislation wouldn't allow welfare recipients to spend that money on smokes, porn and alcohol for example) but...like, this stuff isn't free. You need to know you're not just giving it to someone so they can piss it away on whatever vices might have landed them in that situation to begin with. Welfare is more or less to keep you alive. To keep you fed and sheltered. It's not, nor should it ever be, simply a wad of cash handed to people who can't support themselves.

Would it be insulting to some people? Sure, I can imagine being annoyed by it myself. But it's necessary to ensure the system functions properly and everyone follows the rules.

EDIT: I'll amend this slightly. Didn't realise it was food stamps and not general welfare, which would already be a measure to ensure people are using the stuff correctly. So yeah, drug tests on top might be excessive. I'm not sure I'd call it cruel though.

The overhead in administrative costs outweighs anything that might be saved by testing people. It is a huge waste of time and resources.