Welcome Derrick White

[celtxman]

Yes, such a flawed roster that we made it to the NBA finals in a year where. the east was more competitve and deeper with good teams than any year in recent memory.

Oh, the horror.

We don't make the finals without Derrick white.

I'm not the least bit convinced that they make the Finals with White over Richardson. They were turning things around before White got there. He played 16 minutes in the last game because after Game 1 he was terrible and provided nothing. Earlier in this thread I tried to talk myself into " OK...he had the baby..now things are getting better." We all wanted that. But we can't keep lying to ourselves. If he was a G League pickup and we got him , then things caught up to him, then it's understandable. We're paying him $54 million for three more seasons, lost a draft pick, and gave up Richardson on a much better contract, who was popular and a great fit.
I keep seeing people saying to give White a training camp to REALLY fit in. This isn't rocket science. He had plenty of time to acclimate. So he's going to learn how to hit an open jump shot when it counts?
If he's on the Celtics next year, I have no choice but to root for him. There is no joy in writing facts about the disappointment he has been. If he gets better - great. But it doesn't erase that he came up small on the biggest stage

Sure we were on a hot streak right before white got here - by beating a bunch of teams that were either teams at the bottom of the standings or they were teams that had none of their good players out there.

After we got white, we were now beating GOOD teams...and beating them easily. Like the game against the Sixers where we won by 48. And the games vs the Nets where we swept them, and then beat the Bucks and then beat the Heat.

We went from bottom of the league in assists to top of the league in assists after getting white because he's such a good passer, so unselfish, keep the ball moving, plays 0.5 basketball, pushes the pace whereas J-Rich is a ball stopper who holds onto it too long and doesn't make his teammates better. As soon as White got here all of a sudden Theis, Rob and the Jays were getting more easy baskets than they had gotten all season.

Also, remember - we the White trade was done in tandem with the Theis trade. Doing both of those moves at the same time was Brad's plan - people need to stop just looking at the white trade on its own. by doing both trades at the same time, we went from:

-J rich to white
-schroder to pritchard
-Freedom to Theis

-Rob missed 10+ games at the end of the season and was also injured during playoffs. Theis stepped up BIG, especially at end of reg season and in the nets and bucks series.Without Theis, we don't go as far as we did. Going from Freedom to Theis was a massive upgrade

-Going from J. rich and schroder to white and pritchard was an upgrade for the defense, and also resulted in better spacing thanks to Pritchard's shooting and also a HUGE upgrade in terms of ball movement and pace. j rich and schroder were ball stoppers. white and pritchard move the ball QUICK, are unselfish and also are both guys who don't force shots, they don't turn the ball over. Schroder killed so many possessions for us with forced shots, turnovers and over dribbling

-Also remember that Theis and White are both signed on long term deals and they have mid level salaries (between $9 mil - $18 mil salaries are great for salary matching purposes) which means they are more tradable contracts and it also emans we can get more for them in a trade than we could get for schroder (on a cheap expiring contract), freedom (on a cheap expiring contract) and j rich (only has 1 year left on his deal) so this was a long term move as much as it was a move that clearly put us in a better position to make the nba finals in 2022

When Jason Tatum has a bad Finals, there is literally nothing you can do. You suck it up and pray that he learns from the experience and Udoka works with him to get to the next level. Tatum is 1st team all NBA and players of his skill are never available elsewhere. Derrick White walks a tightrope with this. Does management take a huge chance and run it back with him? It is likely the Warriors will be better next year. So now we're giving White tons of credit, right or wrong, for the Celtics getting to the Finals. But that sentiment isn't going to cut it a second time. White, and more importantly Celtics Management don't have the luxury of him failing again in the Finals

[GoCeltics123]

Derrick is not getting traded this offseason guys, get over that lol.

As for his time here so far: definitely up and down. Had some really good and really rough moments.

I think you need to put a scorer next to him for him to succeed, him and PP were dominating together in the regular season but PP's massive playoff decline put a lot of pressure on D White to score which he can't really do.

He has to improve his shooting, but this team absolutely does not make the Finals without D White. People talk about the Miami series and his impact in that and forget how absolutely massive he was vs. Milwaukee too (minus Game 7). His performance vs. GS and Brooklyn was not good though.

The biggest thing he adds defensively that no one really talks about, which was really huge vs. Miami, is his ability to guard shooters; in 2020, the Celtics had absolutely no one who could stay with Robinson and Herro. However, Derrick in that series had some insane stats defensively on that:

Read on Twitter

We'll see what he's like with a full offseason here, he's still in his prime.

[Higgs Boston]

The trade was terrible but it could have had more sense in a competitive and value perspective if they traded theis instead of richardson and then traded or signed a backup C.
They tried to be more competitive making a trade, wasted assets
and ended with a short and flawed roster.

Yes, such a flawed roster that we made it to the NBA finals in a year where the east was more competitive and deeper with good teams than any year in recent memory.

Oh, the horror.

We don't make the finals without Derrick white.

You can make the nba finals if you have a flawed roster if that flaw isnt too big and temporally you can hide it, its a fact that this team lacks scoring and shooting, with or without finals, even ifwe won the ring this still would be true.

About the without white thing, it doesnt work like that, its white with a roster with more scoring and shooting or richardson and other pieces that you got in a trade instead of white.

[Hal14]

I'm not the least bit convinced that they make the Finals with White over Richardson. They were turning things around before White got there. He played 16 minutes in the last game because after Game 1 he was terrible and provided nothing. Earlier in this thread I tried to talk myself into " OK...he had the baby..now things are getting better." We all wanted that. But we can't keep lying to ourselves. If he was a G League pickup and we got him , then things caught up to him, then it's understandable. We're paying him $54 million for three more seasons, lost a draft pick, and gave up Richardson on a much better contract, who was popular and a great fit.
I keep seeing people saying to give White a training camp to REALLY fit in. This isn't rocket science. He had plenty of time to acclimate. So he's going to learn how to hit an open jump shot when it counts?
If he's on the Celtics next year, I have no choice but to root for him. There is no joy in writing facts about the disappointment he has been. If he gets better - great. But it doesn't erase that he came up small on the biggest stage

Sure we were on a hot streak right before white got here - by beating a bunch of teams that were either teams at the bottom of the standings or they were teams that had none of their good players out there.

After we got white, we were now beating GOOD teams...and beating them easily. Like the game against the Sixers where we won by 48. And the games vs the Nets where we swept them, and then beat the Bucks and then beat the Heat.

We went from bottom of the league in assists to top of the league in assists after getting white because he's such a good passer, so unselfish, keep the ball moving, plays 0.5 basketball, pushes the pace whereas J-Rich is a ball stopper who holds onto it too long and doesn't make his teammates better. As soon as White got here all of a sudden Theis, Rob and the Jays were getting more easy baskets than they had gotten all season.

Also, remember - we the White trade was done in tandem with the Theis trade. Doing both of those moves at the same time was Brad's plan - people need to stop just looking at the white trade on its own. by doing both trades at the same time, we went from:

-J rich to white
-schroder to pritchard
-Freedom to Theis

-Rob missed 10+ games at the end of the season and was also injured during playoffs. Theis stepped up BIG, especially at end of reg season and in the nets and bucks series.Without Theis, we don't go as far as we did. Going from Freedom to Theis was a massive upgrade

-Going from J. rich and schroder to white and pritchard was an upgrade for the defense, and also resulted in better spacing thanks to Pritchard's shooting and also a HUGE upgrade in terms of ball movement and pace. j rich and schroder were ball stoppers. white and pritchard move the ball QUICK, are unselfish and also are both guys who don't force shots, they don't turn the ball over. Schroder killed so many possessions for us with forced shots, turnovers and over dribbling

-Also remember that Theis and White are both signed on long term deals and they have mid level salaries (between $9 mil - $18 mil salaries are great for salary matching purposes) which means they are more tradable contracts and it also emans we can get more for them in a trade than we could get for schroder (on a cheap expiring contract), freedom (on a cheap expiring contract) and j rich (only has 1 year left on his deal) so this was a long term move as much as it was a move that clearly put us in a better position to make the nba finals in 2022

When Jason Tatum has a bad Finals, there is literally nothing you can do. You suck it up and pray that he learns from the experience and Udoka works with him to get to the next level. Tatum is 1st team all NBA and players of his skill are never available elsewhere. Derrick White walks a tightrope with this. Does management take a huge chance and run it back with him? It is likely the Warriors will be better next year. So now we're giving White tons of credit, right or wrong, for the Celtics getting to the Finals. But that sentiment isn't going to cut it a second time. White, and more importantly Celtics Management don't have the luxury of him failing again in the Finals

1) the warriors are not likely to be better next year. their best players are old, only gonna get worse from here. our best players are young, still getting better.
2) white will obviously be better. look at his career averages. he'll regress to the mean. he'll be better now that he's had his baby and also once he is able to have an actual training camp with the team and figure out his role, as opposed to getting thrown onto a new team in the middle of a playoff chase

[BostonCouchGM]

Sure we were on a hot streak right before white got here - by beating a bunch of teams that were either teams at the bottom of the standings or they were teams that had none of their good players out there.

After we got white, we were now beating GOOD teams...and beating them easily. Like the game against the Sixers where we won by 48. And the games vs the Nets where we swept them, and then beat the Bucks and then beat the Heat.

We went from bottom of the league in assists to top of the league in assists after getting white because he's such a good passer, so unselfish, keep the ball moving, plays 0.5 basketball, pushes the pace whereas J-Rich is a ball stopper who holds onto it too long and doesn't make his teammates better. As soon as White got here all of a sudden Theis, Rob and the Jays were getting more easy baskets than they had gotten all season.

Also, remember - we the White trade was done in tandem with the Theis trade. Doing both of those moves at the same time was Brad's plan - people need to stop just looking at the white trade on its own. by doing both trades at the same time, we went from:

-J rich to white
-schroder to pritchard
-Freedom to Theis

-Rob missed 10+ games at the end of the season and was also injured during playoffs. Theis stepped up BIG, especially at end of reg season and in the nets and bucks series.Without Theis, we don't go as far as we did. Going from Freedom to Theis was a massive upgrade

-Going from J. rich and schroder to white and pritchard was an upgrade for the defense, and also resulted in better spacing thanks to Pritchard's shooting and also a HUGE upgrade in terms of ball movement and pace. j rich and schroder were ball stoppers. white and pritchard move the ball QUICK, are unselfish and also are both guys who don't force shots, they don't turn the ball over. Schroder killed so many possessions for us with forced shots, turnovers and over dribbling

-Also remember that Theis and White are both signed on long term deals and they have mid level salaries (between $9 mil - $18 mil salaries are great for salary matching purposes) which means they are more tradable contracts and it also emans we can get more for them in a trade than we could get for schroder (on a cheap expiring contract), freedom (on a cheap expiring contract) and j rich (only has 1 year left on his deal) so this was a long term move as much as it was a move that clearly put us in a better position to make the nba finals in 2022

When Jason Tatum has a bad Finals, there is literally nothing you can do. You suck it up and pray that he learns from the experience and Udoka works with him to get to the next level. Tatum is 1st team all NBA and players of his skill are never available elsewhere. Derrick White walks a tightrope with this. Does management take a huge chance and run it back with him? It is likely the Warriors will be better next year. So now we're giving White tons of credit, right or wrong, for the Celtics getting to the Finals. But that sentiment isn't going to cut it a second time. White, and more importantly Celtics Management don't have the luxury of him failing again in the Finals

1) the warriors are not likely to be better next year. their best players are old, only gonna get worse from here. our best players are young, still getting better.
2) white will obviously be better. look at his career averages. he'll regress to the mean. he'll be better now that he's had his baby and also once he is able to have an actual training camp with the team and figure out his role, as opposed to getting thrown onto a new team in the middle of a playoff chase

c'mon. Klay will 100% be healthier and better than he was this season. Players like him aren't affected by aging as much as athlete first players. Age won't be a factor at least for 2-3 more years for him and Steph. Wiseman, Kuminga and Moody are all starting caliber players who should be more comfortable in their system and in Wiseman's case, finally available. That's a lot of athleticism and length to add to the returning core. They have a 1st rounder and their 2nd rounder is higher than ours so they can add talent via the draft. Of course we don't know what is going to happen with Poole, Wiggins and Looney. But I trust their F.O. to address these potential losses. They should also be able to get some ring chasers.

I'm not sure we should be worried about the Warriors though. Getting out of the East next season isn't going to happen unless every other team is injured again. If we return this same team and run it back and White is being counted on as a difference maker we're screwed.

[Fencer reregistered]

Still lukewarm on White. Dude was beyond atrocious last 5 games of that series. Was -87 while shooting 27% on 12-44 shooting and getting his ass blasted off on defense. He gave us a couple of big games in the playoffs, but was poor overall, and straight up unplayable by the end. Smart and versatile, but not a very good scorer and he gets exposed fast vs actual talent.

I'm still luke warm myself.
But he was brought in as a steadying influence and to help facilitate offence. His best attribute is his ability to move the ball.

Sadly, he was the worst offensive player in our rotation by a lot in the playoffs.

He hit his ceiling hard.

Floor

[Parliament10]

I'm still luke warm myself.
But he was brought in as a steadying influence and to help facilitate offence. His best attribute is his ability to move the ball.

Sadly, he was the worst offensive player in our rotation by a lot in the playoffs.

He hit his ceiling hard.

Floor

Agreed. What Derrick White did this year, was his Floor.
Not his Ceiling.

[Captain_Caveman]

I'm still luke warm myself.
But he was brought in as a steadying influence and to help facilitate offence. His best attribute is his ability to move the ball.

Sadly, he was the worst offensive player in our rotation by a lot in the playoffs.

He hit his ceiling hard.

Floor

There's no doubt that White made some big plays in these playoffs, and that he is a smart and versatile player in many respects. I questioned early on whether we had the personnel to run a Spurs offense for our Spurs coaching staff, and he helps to alleviate that.

None of this should detract from the fact that against playoff competition, he was borderline unplayable a lot of the time, and a net negative a majority of the time. His intangibles don't outweigh the tangibles of him shooting terribly and getting attacked defensively. He shot 36.4% in the playoffs with a 43.8% eFG% despite being left open much of the time. For the last 5 games of the Finals, he was worse than Theis vs the Heat and got ripped in half defensively.

Playoffs are rock, paper, scissors, but he's not Pritchard or Theis. You can't bomb like that at $15m a year. That's more than Smart made this year and 50% more than Rob will make next year. Maybe it looks better with him in a different role on a team with more depth and not being relied on to provide consistent bench scoring. At least, I hope so.

[threrf23]

None of this should detract from the fact that against playoff competition, he was borderline unplayable a lot of the time, and a net negative a majority of the time. His intangibles don't outweigh the tangibles of him shooting terribly and getting attacked defensively. He shot 36.4% in the playoffs with a 43.8% eFG% despite being left open much of the time. For the last 5 games of the Finals, he was worse than Theis vs the Heat and got ripped in half defensively.

Playoffs are rock, paper, scissors, but he's not Pritchard or Theis. You can't bomb like that at $15m a year. That's more than Smart made this year and 50% more than Rob will make next year. Maybe it looks better with him in a different role on a team with more depth and not being relied on to provide consistent bench scoring. At least, I hope so.

I wouldn't say he was a net negative the majority of the time. At his worst he made quick decisions on offense and gave a good effort on defense. On/off court stats suggest that during the playoffs, he was our most impactful defensive player aside from Timelord. They only mean so much but anyone who watched the games knows he was generally a plus defender. Up until the finals he seemed to be having a positive impact on offense as well, even where his shot wasn't falling.

His shot selection is often bad, it was really bad against at times against the Warriors I think he let game one get to his head a bit. He doesn't really come off as selfish to me but at best he lacks some court vision and/or instincts and on many nights just isn't good enough to play effectively at his desired pace and intensity.

Having said that, at worst he's a great guy to have around as long as we aren't depending on him to average more than 20-25 minutes per game or to shoulder a big scoring load. At his best, he is 27 years old, one of the few guys in the league who can kind of replace Marcus Smart's unique profile in the event of injury or trade, and the next few seasons may be the best of his career. I think you could justify his contract.

But I agree with you that he's not a bargain and that the dynamics are a bit awkward where he is making the same as Smart and twice as much as Timelord.

[Captain_Caveman]

None of this should detract from the fact that against playoff competition, he was borderline unplayable a lot of the time, and a net negative a majority of the time. His intangibles don't outweigh the tangibles of him shooting terribly and getting attacked defensively. He shot 36.4% in the playoffs with a 43.8% eFG% despite being left open much of the time. For the last 5 games of the Finals, he was worse than Theis vs the Heat and got ripped in half defensively.

Playoffs are rock, paper, scissors, but he's not Pritchard or Theis. You can't bomb like that at $15m a year. That's more than Smart made this year and 50% more than Rob will make next year. Maybe it looks better with him in a different role on a team with more depth and not being relied on to provide consistent bench scoring. At least, I hope so.

I wouldn't say he was a net negative the majority of the time. At his worst he made quick decisions on offense and gave a good effort on defense. On/off court stats suggest that during the playoffs, he was our most impactful defensive player aside from Timelord. They only mean so much but anyone who watched the games knows he was generally a plus defender. Up until the finals he seemed to be having a positive impact on offense as well, even where his shot wasn't falling.

His shot selection is often bad, it was really bad against at times against the Warriors I think he let game one get to his head a bit. He doesn't really come off as selfish to me but at best he lacks some court vision and/or instincts and on many nights just isn't good enough to play effectively at his desired pace and intensity.

Having said that, at worst he's a great guy to have around as long as we aren't depending on him to average more than 20-25 minutes per game or to shoulder a big scoring load. At his best, he is 27 years old, one of the few guys in the league who can kind of replace Marcus Smart's unique profile in the event of injury or trade, and the next few seasons may be the best of his career. I think you could justify his contract.

But I agree with you that he's not a bargain and that the dynamics are a bit awkward where he is making the same as Smart and twice as much as Timelord.

What I saw, and what I think both an eye test and stats would reflect, is that White was at his best playing against other backup guards on other teams in these playoffs. But those guys were mostly journeymen and slobs or injured, and for a lot of that, he just happened to be on the floor when guys like Tatum, Horford, or Grant were going off.

I never, ever, ever need to see him guarding Curry again. He was a -87 +/- in the last five games of the Finals, or -17.4 per game. That is literally getting your ass kicked from the time you check in until you check out.

He shot like **** throughout the playoffs and defended even worse in the Finals. No one else on this team would have people apologizing for that level of awful. Not now. Not ever.

[BRUNiNHO91]

None of this should detract from the fact that against playoff competition, he was borderline unplayable a lot of the time, and a net negative a majority of the time. His intangibles don't outweigh the tangibles of him shooting terribly and getting attacked defensively. He shot 36.4% in the playoffs with a 43.8% eFG% despite being left open much of the time. For the last 5 games of the Finals, he was worse than Theis vs the Heat and got ripped in half defensively.

Playoffs are rock, paper, scissors, but he's not Pritchard or Theis. You can't bomb like that at $15m a year. That's more than Smart made this year and 50% more than Rob will make next year. Maybe it looks better with him in a different role on a team with more depth and not being relied on to provide consistent bench scoring. At least, I hope so.

I wouldn't say he was a net negative the majority of the time. At his worst he made quick decisions on offense and gave a good effort on defense. On/off court stats suggest that during the playoffs, he was our most impactful defensive player aside from Timelord. They only mean so much but anyone who watched the games knows he was generally a plus defender. Up until the finals he seemed to be having a positive impact on offense as well, even where his shot wasn't falling.

His shot selection is often bad, it was really bad against at times against the Warriors I think he let game one get to his head a bit. He doesn't really come off as selfish to me but at best he lacks some court vision and/or instincts and on many nights just isn't good enough to play effectively at his desired pace and intensity.

Having said that, at worst he's a great guy to have around as long as we aren't depending on him to average more than 20-25 minutes per game or to shoulder a big scoring load. At his best, he is 27 years old, one of the few guys in the league who can kind of replace Marcus Smart's unique profile in the event of injury or trade, and the next few seasons may be the best of his career. I think you could justify his contract.

But I agree with you that he's not a bargain and that the dynamics are a bit awkward where he is making the same as Smart and twice as much as Timelord.

What I saw, and what I think both an eye test and stats would reflect, is that White was at his best playing against other backup guards on other teams in these playoffs. But those guys were mostly journeymen and slobs or injured, and for a lot of that, he just happened to be on the floor when guys like Tatum, Horford, or Grant were going off.

I never, ever, ever need to see him guarding Curry again. He was a -87 +/- in the last five games of the Finals, or -17.4 per game. That is literally getting your ass kicked from the time you check in until you check out.

He shot like **** throughout the playoffs and defended even worse in the Finals. No one else on this team would have people apologizing for that level of awful. Not now. Not ever.

Thannnkkk youuuuuu.

Soent the last page trying to educate dudes on how HORRENDOUS this brother was in games 2 to 6 of the NBA finals yet people were still not getting it.

Finally somebody who does.

I'm willing to give him another shot, but I've seen enough to realize he's probably not worth 16 million a year and he will probably never be good enough to contribute in the NBA finals. Dudes talent capped off hard in the playoffs.. Offensively to me was garbage for like 85% of the games.. Defensively, **** went to hell after the ECF..

Minus 26 in game 6 in like 20 minutes is absurd.

[Patsfan1081]

Short term I don’t think the White trade was bad. We complain when they have stayed pat, White was a good pick up that fit right. My regret is you could have possibly had one of Grant/Wood(though would need to resign them), which would have solved much bigger needs on the team going forward. Smart/White seem redundant, I think you can get away with one ball handler’s poor shooting, not two.

[jfs1000d]

The trade was terrible but it could have had more sense in a competitive and value perspective if they traded theis instead of richardson and then traded or signed a backup C.
They tried to be more competitive making a trade, wasted assets
and ended with a short and flawed roster.

Trade was terrible? He helped get us to game 6 of the freakin nba finals .


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[GoCeltics123]

I'll say this: trade could easily end up an overpay in hindsight obviously, but the idea that this team makes the finals with J Rich is absolutely false.

J Rich had a solid season and all and was a good pickup but he was a 3 and D guy. Wasn't exactly a ball mover like Derrick

[chrisab123]

The trade was terrible but it could have had more sense in a competitive and value perspective if they traded theis instead of richardson and then traded or signed a backup C.
They tried to be more competitive making a trade, wasted assets
and ended with a short and flawed roster.

Trade was terrible? He helped get us to game 6 of the freakin nba finals .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure why it was terrible. Everyone seems to believe that Josh Richardson would have won this team the title and that the pick swap is going to turn into the next LeBron.

[sam_I_am]

White was inconsistent and at times was so bad offensively he was unplayable.

However, he is a system guy who has outplayed his talent level in NBA. He is the type of guy who gets better once he figures out he system and how he fits in.

It doesn’t make sense to declare him a bust based on his bad performances given how good he was when his shot was just okay. This is the same guy who shined during his time on Olympic team and for the Spurs. I mean, if he is the same player next year I’ll be hugely disappointed and admit I was wrong.

I saw the impact he made when he joined the team and he definitely won us a few games in the playoffs - especially against Miami when Smart was beat up. I think he is a guy that will win us a lot of regular season games next year and provide a lot of depth and versatility to our lineup. We need shooting and scoring - he isn’t the answer to that but he isn’t a guy we need to move on from either.

The pick swap is never happening. Spurs about to dump Dejounte Murray for draft picks. Their pick will not be worse than ours …. and if it is not, then the catastrophe that has occurred will not in the least be fixed by our pick instead of theirs.

[Parliament10]

I think that he sticks as a Celtics for a bit.
White fits us nicely.

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[Hal14]

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[celtxman]

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OK, ok....I'm willing to give him another chance LOL. I want to like him on this team. He's just got to get back to his San Antonio shooting. Go 3 /7, and 1/3 on threes (better would be nice) and keep the intangibles and ball movement.

[zoyathedestroya]

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