PG: Knicks vs Raps- 12/9/24

[Iron Mantis]

RJ already became a 20ppg on league avg efficiency which we were told was impossible.... RJ can def continue to get better as we have seen.

This is why I say: RJ won.

[stuporman]

The thing you keep aggressively putting in all caps with periods isn’t even true because I’ve pointed out an outlier season in which it didn’t happen. So how would you explain that?

R***** emotional meltdown...

So the only season in the 3 that didn't happen was R*****.

[3toheadmelo]

RJ still has negative impact on winning per EPM. That's mainly because his defense is consistently awful, and even his improvement on offense doesn't offset that.

He plays like a prince on defense, as if it’s beneath him to run back in transition, provide help in the paint or take a charge. He leaves it to the peasants on the team. StarJ has a bigger fish to fry - he needs to keep his energy for offense because he has a prophecy of fulfill.

It's a shame because he has the tools to become at least average on defense, as he showed in his sophomore year. So it’s really an effort and mindset issue.

His offense is trending upwards, which is nice to see, but he'll never have a positive impact on winning if his defense doesn't improve. It's abhorrently terrible for a wing player.

OG is a much more impactful player even of he tries to do much less. Unlike RJ, he does the dirty work, and he doesn't hijack the offense for raw production.

One of the two fits the cultural heritage of the Knicks, and the other doesn't. I'm glad the one who does is on our team, and the other is gone.

No lies spoken. I'm very grateful that our front office was able to find a trade partner who did see the value and potential value he brings, plus, providing them a local product to help fan sentiment during a rebuild.

You know my policy on players who bring production:

Spoiler:

There's almost always a good deal for those guys even if there's a strong negative case on them. And we found a very good deal.

Yes agreed.

I would make the case that we could've gotten more for him if they had traded him earlier, but IQ's value hit its peak while RJ's was at its lowest, and we were still able to package them together for an upgrade. So in the end, can't complain.

I hope he finds team success in Toronto and remains part of their return to relevance but he'll need to care about the defensive end to play a significant part in that happening. Otherwise he'll be a force conducive to treadmill outcomes.

RJ’s inspiration

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUpcmlja3kgZGF2aXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGdldCBhIHRyaXBsZSBkb3VibGU%3D

[Jalen Bluntson]

The concept '.500 till new year's day' is based on that Thib's Knicks teams have been around .500 until new year's day when they tend to surge later in the season as that particular season's roster jels and becomes more consistent. I have been saying it repeatedly through the beginning of the season to give some context to it.

The fact that this group is ahead of that pace while still not playing up to their potential consistently shows something. Excetly what I'm not going to say but I can speculate that once the 'new year's day' threshold passes we may get a fuller picture of what they can be.

There's going to be inconsistent stretches and performances earlier in the season if Thib's past Knicks teams are any indication that get ironed out and they grow in cohesiveness on both ends of the court as they season goes along. This is what history tells us but time will tell what this team does.

One year they traded for D Rose early FEB. 11-14 record to the 4 seed
One year they traded for Josh early FEB. 30-26 record to the 5 seed
One year they traded for OG/Precious on new years day. 17-15 record to the 2 seed

All three years the team surged from around .500 to the playoffs. Seems the mid season trades had the most impact. Perhaps getting Mitch back around then may have similar results or, they make another trade and find the right piece.

If the Knicks already had Rose...then why were the struggling to start the next year?

If the Knicks already had Hart...then why were they struggling to start the next year?

If the Knicks already had Hart AND OG(and KAT and MB)...they why are they struggling(in some aspects) to start the next year?

Again, it's been the pattern EVERY. EFFING. SEASON. Why, I don't know but I just look at the historical data, every year it takes a little while for his Knicks team to get in a rhythm on both ends of the court. This year the talent is so high they have a better than .500 record but they are certainly still struggling in some aspects.

We also can see how some of those issues are starting to come together, rim protection was woeful for the first dozen or so games but it's been better the past dozen or so games. Now let's hope they can clean up the perimeter defense, especially the 3ball defense as the season goes along.

When it does and the team really starts to click and surge at...oh, let's say....after new year's day...don't be surprised.

It didn't happen in the Kemba/Guano season. You do realize that it could be both right? Adding talent that fits to a team finding their groove. The historical data actually supports that we make a GOOD mid season trade and then the team goes on runs. The one season we didn't, I don't think we did anything at the deadline worth mentioning but, I could be wrong. Just seems like you're missing some data.

[3toheadmelo]

Legend!

Read on Twitter

[Gravy]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

[DaGawd]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

divo for the nova dynasty, followed closely by iq

[robillionaire]

One year they traded for D Rose early FEB. 11-14 record to the 4 seed
One year they traded for Josh early FEB. 30-26 record to the 5 seed
One year they traded for OG/Precious on new years day. 17-15 record to the 2 seed

All three years the team surged from around .500 to the playoffs. Seems the mid season trades had the most impact. Perhaps getting Mitch back around then may have similar results or, they make another trade and find the right piece.

If the Knicks already had Rose...then why were the struggling to start the next year?

If the Knicks already had Hart...then why were they struggling to start the next year?

If the Knicks already had Hart AND OG(and KAT and MB)...they why are they struggling(in some aspects) to start the next year?

Again, it's been the pattern EVERY. EFFING. SEASON. Why, I don't know but I just look at the historical data, every year it takes a little while for his Knicks team to get in a rhythm on both ends of the court. This year the talent is so high they have a better than .500 record but they are certainly still struggling in some aspects.

We also can see how some of those issues are starting to come together, rim protection was woeful for the first dozen or so games but it's been better the past dozen or so games. Now let's hope they can clean up the perimeter defense, especially the 3ball defense as the season goes along.

When it does and the team really starts to click and surge at...oh, let's say....after new year's day...don't be surprised.

It didn't happen in the Kemba/Guano season. You do realize that it could be both right? Adding talent that fits to a team finding their groove. The historical data actually supports that we make a GOOD mid season trade and then the team goes on runs. The one season we didn't, I don't think we did anything at the deadline worth mentioning but, I could be wrong. Just seems like you're missing some data.

Pretty much what I was trying to say but yeah. Could be both

[RHODEY]

RJ already became a 20ppg on league avg efficiency which we were told was impossible.... RJ can def continue to get better as we have seen.

This is why I say: RJ won.

Yeah we both did. RJ is a very good player but was a very bad fit for us.

[3toheadmelo]

Love seeing OG make winning plays while RJ continues to make losing plays. The biggest fleecing of the century.

Read on Twitter

[Capn'O]

I would make the case that we could've gotten more for him if they had traded him earlier...

The deal I wanted was draft night w/ Atlanta and get Garland/Little

So close to a flawless idea. Just a Little off.

[Capn'O]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

For total value - IQ and don't look back.

For need - Grimes.

[robillionaire]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

divo for the nova dynasty, followed closely by iq

Pretty much. Too bad IQ has been injured constantly ever since we traded him but I guess you still have to factor health into how the trade worked out. So far so good for us

[stuporman]

One year they traded for D Rose early FEB. 11-14 record to the 4 seed
One year they traded for Josh early FEB. 30-26 record to the 5 seed
One year they traded for OG/Precious on new years day. 17-15 record to the 2 seed

All three years the team surged from around .500 to the playoffs. Seems the mid season trades had the most impact. Perhaps getting Mitch back around then may have similar results or, they make another trade and find the right piece.

If the Knicks already had Rose...then why were the struggling to start the next year?

If the Knicks already had Hart...then why were they struggling to start the next year?

If the Knicks already had Hart AND OG(and KAT and MB)...they why are they struggling(in some aspects) to start the next year?

Again, it's been the pattern EVERY. EFFING. SEASON. Why, I don't know but I just look at the historical data, every year it takes a little while for his Knicks team to get in a rhythm on both ends of the court. This year the talent is so high they have a better than .500 record but they are certainly still struggling in some aspects.

We also can see how some of those issues are starting to come together, rim protection was woeful for the first dozen or so games but it's been better the past dozen or so games. Now let's hope they can clean up the perimeter defense, especially the 3ball defense as the season goes along.

When it does and the team really starts to click and surge at...oh, let's say....after new year's day...don't be surprised.

It didn't happen in the Kemba/Guano season. You do realize that it could be both right? Adding talent that fits to a team finding their groove. The historical data actually supports that we make a GOOD mid season trade and then the team goes on runs. The one season we didn't, I don't think we did anything at the deadline worth mentioning but, I could be wrong. Just seems like you're missing some data.

The R***** emotional meltdown season, that had nothing to do with it, no? Sure, defensively inept additions like Kemba and Fournier contributed the team not having the players to even potentially surge later in the season but that shows why it didn't happen that season.

It doesn't explain why the team didn't start well the year Hart was already on the roster if you claim he was such a catalyst for winning so explains the second half surge. What does explain it is that EVERY. EFFING. SEASON. it takes some cohesion building every season.

Why is this such a radical idea? Why is there so much resistance to the simple, obvious, explanation? Why is this something people want to argue against? It seems silly to me, it just is, no need to overthink it.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

Grimes since he can play defense against 1-3.

[3toheadmelo]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

IQ and Grimes. Jerry west was right folks!

[Gravy]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

For total value - IQ and don't look back.

For need - Grimes.

I like Divo and IQ a lot but we might need Obi the most to give OG more rest.

[Guano]

RJ still has negative impact on winning per EPM. That's mainly because his defense is consistently awful, and even his improvement on offense doesn't offset that.

He plays like a prince on defense, as if it’s beneath him to run back in transition, provide help in the paint or take a charge. He leaves it to the peasants on the team. StarJ has a bigger fish to fry - he needs to keep his energy for offense because he has a prophecy of fulfill.

It's a shame because he has the tools to become at least average on defense, as he showed in his sophomore year. So it’s really an effort and mindset issue.

His offense is trending upwards, which is nice to see, but he'll never have a positive impact on winning if his defense doesn't improve. It's abhorrently terrible for a wing player.

OG is a much more impactful player even of he tries to do much less. Unlike RJ, he does the dirty work, and he doesn't hijack the offense for raw production.

One of the two fits the cultural heritage of the Knicks, and the other doesn't. I'm glad the one who does is on our team, and the other is gone.

No lies spoken. I'm very grateful that our front office was able to find a trade partner who did see the value and potential value he brings, plus, providing them a local product to help fan sentiment during a rebuild.

You know my policy on players who bring production:

Spoiler:

There's almost always a good deal for those guys even if there's a strong negative case on them. And we found a very good deal.

Yes agreed.

I would make the case that we could've gotten more for him if they had traded him earlier, but IQ's value hit its peak while RJ's was at its lowest, and we were still able to package them together for an upgrade. So in the end, can't complain.

I hope he finds team success in Toronto and remains part of their return to relevance but he'll need to care about the defensive end to play a significant part in that happening. Otherwise he'll be a force conducive to treadmill outcomes.

[HEZI]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

.

RJ or Grimes

[Capn'O]

Choose 1 to bring back on a good contract.

For total value - IQ and don't look back.

For need - Grimes.

I like Divo and IQ a lot but we might need Obi the most to give OG more rest.

Thibs response: