2018 Offseason Thread

Post #3761 » by **ThunderBolt** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:38 am

I’ll give Diallo about three games and then I’ll feel comfortable knowing if they got a steal in the draft or if it’s the thunder hype machine.

Old Man Game · Post #3762 » by **Old Man Game** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:04 pm

The thing that really gives me some hope for Ham, at least on paper, is the combination of nuclear athleticism and Kentucky's record of turning out decent pros. We'll see.

Post #3763 » by **retrobro90** » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:31 pm

Anybody a subscriber on that "OKC Dream Team" podcast? I'm curious about Miky Berra's chartside data about Westbrook's passing but I don't wanna pay $5 a month. Also I've tried to do so in the past and it still wouldn't let me see their content smdh.

Old Man Game · Post #3764 » by **Old Man Game** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:18 pm

retrobro90 wrote:Anybody a subscriber on that "OKC Dream Team" podcast? I'm curious about Miky Berra's chartside data about Westbrook's passing but I don't wanna pay $5 a month. Also I've tried to do so in the past and it still wouldn't let me see their content smdh.

Can't bring myself to pay for dudes yakking about sports when there's so much free content of dudes yakking about sports.

Pillendreher · Post #3765 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:57 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
retrobro90 wrote:Anybody a subscriber on that "OKC Dream Team" podcast? I'm curious about Miky Berra's chartside data about Westbrook's passing but I don't wanna pay $5 a month. Also I've tried to do so in the past and it still wouldn't let me see their content smdh.

Can't bring myself to pay for dudes yakking about sports when there's so much free content of dudes yakking about sports.

Fyi I will continue to offer my premium opinions free of charge. You're welcome.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 Pro using RealGM mobile app

Post #3766 » by **ThunderBolt** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:32 pm

Pretty disappointing that we aren’t even rumored to be making an attempt at butler.

Post #3767 » by **bondom34** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:46 pm

https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/9/27/17909360/friday-cup-of-canis-trade-talks-continue-amid-training-camp-minnesota-timberwolves-jimmy-butler-heat#comments

Nate in St. Paul is a guy who seems to have knowledge of the Wolves. He's one of their insiders I believe. Think Eric in Madison may be too.

thekaoswithin · Post #3768 » by **thekaoswithin** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:46 pm

bondom34 wrote:https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/9/27/17909360/friday-cup-of-canis-trade-talks-continue-amid-training-camp-minnesota-timberwolves-jimmy-butler-heat#comments

Nate in St. Paul is a guy who seems to have knowledge of the Wolves. He's one of their insiders I believe. Think Eric in Madison may be too.

What does this have to do with us in any way?

Post #3769 » by **bondom34** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:48 pm

thekaoswithin wrote:
bondom34 wrote:https://www.canishoopus.com/2018/9/27/17909360/friday-cup-of-canis-trade-talks-continue-amid-training-camp-minnesota-timberwolves-jimmy-butler-heat#comments

Nate in St. Paul is a guy who seems to have knowledge of the Wolves. He's one of their insiders I believe. Think Eric in Madison may be too.

What does this have to do with us in any way?

Wrong thread!

Pillendreher · Post #3770 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:45 pm

Knrstz wrote:Pretty disappointing that we aren’t even rumored to be making an attempt at butler.

We pounce when every other team has been rebuffed.

Post #3771 » by **ThunderBolt** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:47 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Pretty disappointing that we aren’t even rumored to be making an attempt at butler.

We pounce when every other team has been rebuffed.

Even if we did, I don’t think Minnesota wants to trade him to the west, especially the same division.

Pillendreher · Post #3772 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:23 pm

Read on Twitter

OklaHOME

Pillendreher · Post #3773 » by **Pillendreher** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:51 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:Pretty disappointing that we aren’t even rumored to be making an attempt at butler.

We pounce when every other team has been rebuffed.

Even if we did, I don’t think Minnesota wants to trade him to the west, especially the same division.

As of right now, I don't think any trade is happening any time soon if reports are too be believed. To me it looks like the Timberwolves don't know what they want/are not on the same page and other teams are trying to take advantage of that. So while Thibs might be trying to sabotage any and all trades, teams calling about Butler might be trying to lowball them because of the trade request, locker room problems, etc. A little further down the line, a reasonable offer will probably get the job done.

Post #3774 » by **bondom34** » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:09 pm

retrobro90 wrote:Anybody a subscriber on that "OKC Dream Team" podcast? I'm curious about Miky Berra's chartside data about Westbrook's passing but I don't wanna pay $5 a month. Also I've tried to do so in the past and it still wouldn't let me see their content smdh.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Thunder/comments/9jdlho/a_study_on_russell_westbrooks_passing_accuracy_is/

Someone summarized, not shocking:

Miky looked at 350 possessions that ended with russ passing for a spot up look. He then looked at how wide open those players were, how well they shot, how good the pass was, etc.

Russ is an objectively good passer using this method. While his bad passes are very off, the good passes were on point, led to wide open looks which our shooters (mostly abrines and George) turned into buckets. About 75% of russ' passes to spot ups were right on the money.

Also pg and abrines were around 55% from 3 on wide open looks created by good russ passes. Melo was around 34%. So Melos struggles had little to nothing to do with russ.

AirInTheLoop · Post #3775 » by **AirInTheLoop** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:58 am

Pillendreher wrote:As of right now, I don't think any trade is happening any time soon if reports are too be believed. To me it looks like the Timberwolves don't know what they want/are not on the same page and other teams are trying to take advantage of that. So while Thibs might be trying to sabotage any and all trades, teams calling about Butler might be trying to lowball them because of the trade request, locker room problems, etc. A little further down the line, a reasonable offer will probably get the job done.

It seems that they know what they want, they are simply asking WAY too much.
They want to package him with Gorgui Dieng and in this package they want a young developing player, a good vet, picks and expiring or salary absorption.
I seriously doubt they've had low ball offers, they are simply asking too much while they can to see who bites. Hindering the trade with Dieng is an issue too. The real question is when are they going to be more realistic. The sooner, the better for everyone and i think the organization knows this. So i'd expect their asking price to go down within the next week.

Dennis + Roberson + Abrines + Patterson would work. It gives them the youth they want. Dieng is not a terrible player, i think he could play the role Patterson is expected to play. Abrines gives them young + potential expiring. Roberson gives them an A+ defensive vet and Dennis is a 24 year old 20-7 point guard signed to a solid contract tat they could move, use as a sixth man or move... whats his face.. whoever their PG is.
That said, hopefully this does not happen and if it did, we'd need to see Butler commit to a long term contract beforehand.

Pillendreher · Post #3776 » by **Pillendreher** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:53 am

bondom34 wrote:
Melo was around 34%. So Melos struggles had little to nothing to do with russ.

I'm not buying that. A LOT of Russ' passes to Melo were way too low or not accurate enough in general. I'm not a Melo stan by any means, but you can't tell me that Russ' passes didn't affect Anthony's shooting %. Often times, Melo couldn't just "catch and shoot", but had to adjust his position because the pass wasn't working.

What would help this conversation along is the expected FG% tracking data. Too bad I don't know where to get that.

Post #3777 » by **bondom34** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:59 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Melo was around 34%. So Melos struggles had little to nothing to do with russ.

I'm not buying that. A LOT of Russ' passes to Melo were way too low or not accurate enough in general. I'm not a Melo stan by any means, but you can't tell me that Russ' passes didn't affect Anthony's shooting %. Often times, Melo couldn't just "catch and shoot", but had to adjust his position because the pass wasn't working.

What would help this conversation along is the expected FG% tracking data. Too bad I don't know where to get that.

Not sure, but I couldn't say anything about the passes without actually tracking them and watching video, which is what Berra did.

Post #3778 » by **slick_watts** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:06 pm

berra is a ridiculous thunder homer so i can't trust that research isn't fraught with confirmation bias. just a few years ago he was advocating for waiters over roberson because of waiters' "keep in front percentage".

does the post say how many games he looked at for the 350 possessions of passing to a spot up shooter? i'm curious what fraction of total spot up possessions that would be. also does this method capture situations where a shot is not attempted?

Post #3779 » by **slick_watts** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:16 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
bondom34 wrote:

I'm not buying that. A LOT of Russ' passes to Melo were way too low or not accurate enough in general. I'm not a Melo stan by any means, but you can't tell me that Russ' passes didn't affect Anthony's shooting %. Often times, Melo couldn't just "catch and shoot", but had to adjust his position because the pass wasn't working.

What would help this conversation along is the expected FG% tracking data. Too bad I don't know where to get that.

Not sure, but I couldn't say anything about the passes without actually tracking them and watching video, which is what Berra did.

it's what berra says he did. thunder had 1700+ spot up possessions last year according to synergy. westbrook was responsible for more than half the team's total assists. would a rough estimate of 850-900 total spot up possessions initiated by westbrook be fair? would a 350 possession sampling of that amount be fair? meh. probably meaningful in that case, but i would still wonder about possessions that are not captured i.e. when a shot is not attempted but the pass was intended for a spot up shot attempt.

at any rate, how representative a sampling this is would be my first question.

Post #3780 » by **bondom34** » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:18 pm

slick_watts wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
I'm not buying that. A LOT of Russ' passes to Melo were way too low or not accurate enough in general. I'm not a Melo stan by any means, but you can't tell me that Russ' passes didn't affect Anthony's shooting %. Often times, Melo couldn't just "catch and shoot", but had to adjust his position because the pass wasn't working.

What would help this conversation along is the expected FG% tracking data. Too bad I don't know where to get that.

Not sure, but I couldn't say anything about the passes without actually tracking them and watching video, which is what Berra did.

it's what berra says he did. thunder had 1700+ spot up possessions last year according to synergy. westbrook was responsible for more than half the team's total assists. would a rough estimate of 850-900 total spot up possessions initiated by westbrook be fair? would a 350 possession sampling of that amount be fair? meh. probably meaningful in that case, but i would still wonder about possessions that are not captures i.e. when a shot is not attempted but the pass was intended for a spot up shot attempt.

Again, don't know. But calling him a homer and saying you don't trust it seems to fit your MO