Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
mikhailjordan wrote:I'd part with Favors for Melo, for all the talk about how beast he is we just don't know what's going to happen with and I say that while still wanting to watch this guy play like a little girl wants to go to a Justin Bieber concert.
jerseyjac wrote:I'm not a fan of this deal...at all...
First and foremost, you dont make this move without calculating your next one (options, who can Melo attract to join him and can we obtain that player)...its that simple...with Favors thrown into this trade, it limits us in our next move...
Acquiring Melo guarantees us the playoffs this year, nothing more...Sure there should be interest from other stars around the league, but can we get those deals done?...If the Nets are now throwing Favors name around in this trade, I would have to assume we know who we CAN go after as our next piece to the Nets puzzle (ableit trade or FA next year, ect...)
My concern is whether the Nets front office are looking beyond the Melo move...right now it looks like we're rushing to get something done because we dont want Melo to enter training camp with Nuggets...
I'm sure everyone read, heard or understands this is a no go if Melo does not agree to an extension...
enetric wrote:Rich Rane wrote:I like Melo too and would love to see him live at home games, but if the trade-off is 1st-2nd round exits year after year (which I honestly think this gets us) and watching MLE guys to Miami or Orlando and top picks being picked elsewhere along with us picking just outside the lottery, it really isn't worth it. The only way I could truly like this 4-team trade is if we get that one other star after to put us over the top to truly contend.
ITS THE ONLY way this trade turns out to be worth it. Otherwise...it flushes the last two years of rebuilding down the drain...and delays the next rebuild for 3-4 years as we compete for 6-8 seeds.
If gys who defend this feel...they are content with that...if they feel...hey I would rather lock in some playoffs and accept that we got no where...that is better than couple more years of losing and a shot at a top 4 seed team for the next 5-6 years to follow...then fine. But I dont hear that.
I hear the dillusion. I hear...ITS MELO!!!! YES!!!! And we have a rich owner...as if there is no cap or no rules about salary matching. I hear...Melo wil just get us this and that..even if this and that are going to be BEYOND difficult to get once you have Melo...BECAUSE of Melo. This doesnt turn us into Boston with KG. It turns us into MINNY with KG...IF we are lucky. And that is before anyone even looks at the landscape. Before they look over and see...OH...MIAMI! Forgot about those guys.
Some fans like to get better and pretend. Its the prtend part that irks me. I am not saying its impossible...but I am saying...HIGHLY IMPROBABLE.
SOUP wrote:Rich Rane wrote:I like Melo too and would love to see him live at home games, but if the trade-off is 1st-2nd round exits year after year (which I honestly think this gets us) and watching MLE guys to Miami or Orlando and top picks being picked elsewhere along with us picking just outside the lottery, it really isn't worth it. The only way I could truly like this 4-team trade is if we get that one other star after to put us over the top to truly contend.
One step at a time, we have to set things up in order to move forward. Basing our future on lottery picks is risky in itself (see this years draft).
If this goes through I see it as a positive step for the Nets.
Netaman wrote:The Harris portion of this trade really confuses me. It seems we prefer to trade him over Murphy based on the fact that we could ship Murphy to Denver in place of AK47 and cut out the other 2 teams (while keeping Devin). I would personally prefer to do that and let Hump, Smith, Outlaw, and James vie for time at the PF position in the interim. It seems however that we have chosen the reliable double double with an expiring contract over committing to Devin as the PG of the team long term.
As far as the trade goes I don't love it but Im not going to complain. Carmelo is an elite scorer in this league. He is clutch and he can take over a game. While he hasn't proven to be a "winner" on Kobe's level, he's shown he knows how to win. In a league where there aren't very many elite players, when push comes to shove you have to take your chances when you can get one. Lopez + Melo + TWill will be a pretty solid core. A heady defensive PG would really balance that lineup.
mikhailjordan wrote:Had Rafer last year he ended up crying his way out of down =O... All I hope if this deal goes through is that the Nets don't give out too many 1st rounders.
They'll need some of those + Murphy's expiring if they hope to acquire a 3rd cog down the line.
This also moves the Outlaw signing from reasonable / questionable into bad IMO. Also moves Damion James out of the rotation...
jerseyjac wrote:mikhailjordan wrote:Had Rafer last year he ended up crying his way out of down =O... All I hope if this deal goes through is that the Nets don't give out too many 1st rounders.
They'll need some of those + Murphy's expiring if they hope to acquire a 3rd cog down the line.
This also moves the Outlaw signing from reasonable / questionable into bad IMO. Also moves Damion James out of the rotation...
Avery screwed us...
mikhailjordan wrote:Oh God... You're doing this just because you saw my post right? I'd rather sign Chris Childs before I let Allen Iverson near this team.
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
The Webb wrote:It's going to take 5 Carmello's to make this team anything worth while. Sad truth.
Netaman wrote:enetric wrote:
I dont see the signing. Who? And how? Melo making 21 mil year one and climbing? add it all up. Melo is the biggest potential free agent this summer. So who do you get vastly better than Troy in free agency for his salary?
I think it has to be by trade. And of course...the more you give up in this deal...the less you have to offer later. And 2012? Brook is up for contract? I dont see it. I think its by trade. I think we do this deal...we are playing Knicks style building. Loose and fast. We jump in...we have a short window...all about the now...and that means trades.The only signings I could see would be Horford or David West. I like both but don't necessarily see either really being that final piece. This team would likely need a star in the backcourt and then try to get a solid role player at PF for one of the exceptions (Kmart type).
So who is the star...and how do you get him and that role big man? Come up with it...and actually do the cap math. When you see how hard it is...come back to me. And Horford wont be a UFA. Not going to happen. Is West a big upgrade over Troy? Troy actually helps Melo more style wise.The only disagreement I have with everything here is that I don't think this is Knicks style. The Knicks have never had a building block like Lopez. This is more like Celtics style. Start with 1 star and some guys with potential. Add a bonafide top 15 player. Try to find that 1 last impact player and hope one of the young guys develops.
What??? The Celtics had the star on a reasonable contract. They traded their high lotto pick straight up for the second star. We are giving up that chip in Favors, and our top 10 PG, and a GSW pick that should be lottery...and potenially one of what would have been one of our lottery picks. The Celtics stil have a young big time prospect big man...AND huge expiring contracts...and picks...and had the assets to add the third. That third guy was an UBER 20 mil plus contract in KG. But he was LAST IN. And they did ALL of that while KEEPING RONDO...the PROSPECT they deemed untouchable.
The Knicks..had Lee, a 20-10 all star big man. They had a lottery prospect Hill. They had potentially two more lottery picks. They had some solid role guys. And they had an expiring contract for this year in Jeffries. They gave all of that up...For a bottom 10 of 30 starting PG...and one massivley overpaid all star, plus one prospect.
You dont see that giving up our top prospect, our top 10 second best player, two lottery picks...to add a guy that plays the same spot at the guy we gave 35mil to 8 weeks ago is A LOT MORE KNICKS than anything else? When you make you big money move FIRST...and gut you prospects...that's that. That BIG MOVE...has to be the LAST major step.
Using the Celtics as an example...since then...what did they add? PJ Brown? Sheed? Now Shaq, and JO? And those were ELITE MLE type signings. Ones that came because they WON a title. But the point is..THAT IS THE MOST THEY HAVE ADDED SINCE. Not because they didnt need more. But...its because thats all you can get capped, without prospects and picks. But they dont care...because they went all in LAST. After they had each piece.
Take our roster. If we can make the big move after this? GREAT!!!! But as that we are uisng our AlJeff, and our top 5 lottery pick, and our own pair of lotery picks...all for THE BIG CONTRACT guy...its going to be MUCH MUCH harder. And I am sorry....Brook doesnt equal Pierce, Allen and Rondo all on his own.Well, then I am guessing you havent really looked at the cap. Very Knicks like. Wanted cap room...so they said bye to their best player to get it. Troy isnt our best player...but if we are trading for the best free agent of 2011...lose Troy....for cap flexibility...who are you getting that is a big upgrade?They were lucky enough to execute all of their movement in 1 offseason. Getting the next star may take us a little longer. However, we are fortunate that all of the pieces in place are 26 years old and younger. If we can get Melo while maintaining some cap flexibility for 1 more offseason we will have ourselves a longer window of top level competition then the Celts had.Again to me the most disappointing thing, assuming Favors had to go, is losing Harris. Regardless of getting Augustine or not. People are easy to forget that as a supporting player 2 years ago Harris was deadly off the dribble and pretty clutch. On a team with a solid backup PG and other players to handle the ball Harris would have been able to go back to being the defensive menace he was in Dallas. Point blank in a league full of compilers, he had proven that he could be a winning player. To me it seems we're choosing Murphy over Harris and while that will add flexibility for the next move I think it's a mistake. I don't think Murphy is a long term answer while Harris can be. I'd rather mix and match Outlaw/James/Smith/Hump/Melo/Petro at PF/SF for 1 year then have to eventually find a long term PG and PF.
Basileus777 wrote:One source close to the talks in Melo-to-New Jersey proposed four-way deal: "It either happens by Monday or the deal falls apart."Another source: Melo warming to idea of Nets, whose planned move to Brooklyn in two years under Russian billionaire Prokhorov is strong lureBut source says Melo hoping Knicks or Bulls, his top choices, lodge last-ditch trade bids this weekend. Melo really wants to play w/AmareProblem for Knicks and Bulls, however, hasn't changed. Knicks don't have first-round picks to sweeten deal and Bulls will NOT part w/Jo Noah
From Stein on twitter.
Basileus777 wrote:The management is thinking about building for 2012 when they move to Brooklyn. Waiting 4 years to wait until the Heat start to fade isn't really an option. You can't ignore the business and marketing aspect here.
Netaman wrote:Basileus777 wrote:The management is thinking about building for 2012 when they move to Brooklyn. Waiting 4 years to wait until the Heat start to fade isn't really an option. You can't ignore the business and marketing aspect here.
It's also hard to waste those 4 years if you believe Lopez is legit. a) obviously non-competing might simply lose him. b) it's wasting year's of a star player's career.
IF they believe Lopez can be an impact player on the level of Laker's version of Pau, getting Melo is obviously worth it. Getting those 2 together for 4 years in their 20's could lead to something special. It would also obviously necessitate the need to find a star guard to balance the team.