Official 2013 Draft Thread - Part VII

[gambitx777]

Well, I think that E.G. is not bad at bringing in F.A. on the cheep. His trades are never great, and some times there bad. Basically it comes down to how he have handled draft picks.

Its not just that they have a bunch of low draft picks. Its that they have a draft mantra and they stick to it. They do after High character guys, with skill and talent.
We tend to have no method to our madness... its gotten better. but lets look shall we.
in 2005 we traded a pick that could have been nate robinson or jerrect jack, then in the second round we took blatche and left Amir Johnson on the board.
2006 rondo went 3 picks after we took pech
2007 Marc Gasol went one pick after we took Dominic McGuire, and we took nick young over several guys that made more sense.
2008, we got robbed of Hibbert, but we left Hickson, Anderson, Batum and Ibaka on the board for knuckle headed Mcgee.
in 2009 we passed on many, great players for vets, that were not better than the rookie we could have gotten,
2010 looked like EG got his **** together,
then he done **** it up in 2011 and went back to his bone head ways of drafting for potential and need over character and true talent.

SO, where did we go wrong ? we did not evaluate effectively, we did not just miss out we just plan could not draft.
not to mention all the blown and wasted second round picks that we spent in trades and just plain selling them.
So, in order to build a S.A. type team. We need to be smart and evaluate talent in the proper way. No more taking guys of questionable character, just because they might get there act together and they might be really good. No more taking guys just because they are good athletes, when they can not really play the game at an NBA level and have done nothing to show that they can. No more wasting first round pick on guys hoping that they will just put it all together. and We need to not waste second round picks. We need to be smart and take the most mature NBA ready player available. We need to stop ignoring red flags, they are red for a reason.

No more bad trends and good flukes. that's why i hope this draft is different. We shall see, We need a 2010 and 2012 draft, not a 2005-2009,2011. its time to make the good a tread and the bad just a fluky miss.

[blazinskillz]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/b ... 07957.post

“He’s one of the most versatile players around. He’s a guy that can play in the post. He can play a little bit on the wing. In college, at 6-8, 240 he was able to play two positions because he has that versatility. He shoots 38 percent from behind the arc. Although he takes 25 percent of his shots from deep, he had to play in the post. The question is if he’s going to be able to guard small forwards. . . . But he’s so versatile. He can rebound. He can block shots. He can pass the ball as well. He can be one of the better players in a few years that comes out of this draft because of that."
Ryan Blake, the senior director of NBA scouting operations

[Knighthonor]

Are people forgetting that the SA are a Western Team?
As if the SA would have made the finals as a eastern team. come on.

[dangermouse]

Are people forgetting that the SA are a Western Team?
As if the SA would have made the finals as a eastern team. come on.

is this a humorous jape?

they would have made the conference finals. against the heat. replicating what is happening right now, but with a different end result.

are you saying the west is weak?

[Jimmy Recard]

Are people forgetting that the SA are a Western Team?
As if the SA would have made the finals as a eastern team. come on.

Uh what? The East is much weaker than the West and has been throughout most, if not all of the Tim Duncan era. The Spurs would have more than 4 championships if they were in the East.

[Illuminaire]

Every so often I forget why I have Knighthonor on ignore. Then someone quotes him, and it all makes sense again.

[gambitx777]

Every so often I forget why I have Knighthonor on ignore. Then someone quotes him, and it all makes sense again.

Now I think we all see why you do.
Any WAY, Dario is officially out of the draft now, This only effects us if we plan to make a play to buy another pick. it could mean a team like the Mav's or OKC, might be willing to sell that pick for cash, some current and future seconds? maybe some one would take ariza for a late loto pick ? IDK but from what I have been reading this new and only fueled the fire that the 2014 draft will be one of the best in years.
If that ends up being the case, when we land some where around 15-20 we will still be in a good spot.

[hands11]

How do we duplicate SA's synergy for ourselves? How does it come about? I don't fully understand it. It's got to be one of the most powerful things in bball right now. They are one win away from winning a championship with what I'd guess is the lowest drafted team in the NBA by a sound margin.

The only things I can come up with are superb Xs and Os work, superb leadership, vision for how to get every guy into his proper role at the moment he's needed. And roster wide, a high degree of intelligence and heart.

Such playmaking ability too. The daring passes and superb shooting. Those guys are such big risk takers, but more often than not, it feels like they're sticking those passes and hitting those shots, against good D. Their chemistry is amazing. I hope we get some of that chemistry ourselves one day. I hope John Wall can be that kind of leader and chemistry inducing presence. I do think he's got the heart of a champion.

It start with insight and vision. That turns into a plan. That its about having a front office on the same page and extincting that plan with long term goals.

The insight is evaluating the rules of the game as they exist today. Tthe game is not run and jump. Its 5 on 5 basketball. And the way the rules are today, you get 3 pts for shooting from the outside, not for mid range shots or fast break dunks. And no one great player is going to be a well run balanced team in a 7 game series.

So you start with smart players who work hard, stay disciplined and then get then to all play team defense. Then you get shooters and passers, and you run a team offense that gets you those open 3 shots. Mix in some ball handing/driving players and a sense that everyone is a go to player where there are no kings, and you most the way there. Then you need experience.

5 players of that make, in a system like that, with those skills is tough to beat.

No bad eggs. No mental midgets. No clowns. No egomaniacs. Your best player have to be the example and willing to do what everyone else is asked to do. Because when it comes to crunch time, everything needs to run like a well oiled machine. Mental lapses will kill you. Hero ball will turn momentum if it fails. The margin of error is so small once you get to the finals. Everyone needs to know where they are supposed to be and what they need to do at all times.

Even as good as MJ was, Chicago ran like a machine most the time. Besides, you don't get to ride the coat tails of an MJ all that often.

[verbal8]

MJ is a terrible analogy for Oladipo. I think a much better example, and story of successfully picking a player off of athletic tools, is Russell Westbrook. I don't really look at Westbrook's numbers that really stand above Oladipo's. they are both shock and awe type athletes. If you take Oladipo, I think you are just hoping he can produce as well as he has with higher useage.

I think Iguodala may be a good comp too. Iguodala only averaged 12 points per game his 2nd(and final) year in college. Iguodala has the size of a SF and probably will create more assists. However it looks like Oladipo has the potential to be a much better shooter.

I really am not too concerned about his low usage rate. His team won 29 games and he was the second leading scorer. His relatively low minutes and having Zeller on the same team, seems like a good explanation for his relatively low scoring output. Trey Burke's 18.6 ppg is impressive, but he was on the court 35 mpg.

[Ruzious]

Seriously:

Ancillary good happened with the Okariza trade. At the same time, Vesely's and Seraphin's careers with Washington were destroyed. Those are not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, and it's not like Vesely and Seraphin were ever considered important players to develop.

[stevemcqueen1]

Gsmbit and Hands, I don't think it's just about drafting special people with SA. They've had their guys struggle at times. Parker is such a different player now than he was early in his career. His decision making and shooting and entire feel for the game got so much better over time. Danny Green washed out of SA the first time because he didn't play hard or with enough awareness. Kawhi Leonard slipped out of the lottery in the draft because of concerns about his shooting and his scoring ability, now you see him confidently draining threes and driving to the basket and changing his shots at the rim to score through contact and pick up the and-1 over some of the best defenders in the game.

Maybe you get lucky and find true diamonds in the rough once or twice. But you don't build your whole team that way. The reason why so many of their players fell so far in the draft is because they were flawed or problematic. SA is finding a way to take flawed players and develop them into guys who can, to a man, play tough, shoot, make great passes, and play good defense.

If SA had gotten their hands on Vesely, he would probably be raining threes and playing D like a young AK-47 right now.

[tontoz]

Every so often I forget why I have Knighthonor on ignore. Then someone quotes him, and it all makes sense again.

Good idea. I just put someone else on ignore (He who cannot understand the difference between loss and lose) and it has definitely made the board more readable.

[montestewart]

Are people forgetting that the SA are a Western Team?
As if the SA would have made the finals as a eastern team. come on.

Oh that's right, but this makes so much sense now. I was wondering how they got in the playoffs in the first place. Thanks K'Hon, this is one of the best posts of all time.

[BruceO]

superballmans observation on san antonios draft slots and personnel is good. Someone made a similar observation about indiana. Like who is the highest drafted player on that squad..paul george? Memphis is similar to an extent. I think its about the type of personnel and mix brought it. If you compare position players a prototype may be formed.
conley, parker and former spur george hill vs wall..the previously not highly considered Lance stephenson, Danny green, tony allen ( two of who are 6 6' or over, rebound, defend or shoot well vs beal)..the big small forwards kawhi, prince, paul george. ( porter can be this), Power forward scorer rebounders who are physical david west, zach randolph..variable for Sa. Defensive player of year candidates bigger than 7 foot Tim duncan; roy hibbert and marc gasol. We have nene and okafor for our bigs.
So porter fits the type, we may need another big guard at the two and hopefully a big center. Also the players are team and family oriented, you keep them together for long and bring little changes but more stability, they are not fussy or mental midgets and live in non glamorous cities

[pancakes3]

Did someone say Leastern Conference? I'm pretty sure it was the Beastern Conference back in 2003 that produced one 50-win team out of the east vs six 50+ win teams (two 60-win teams) in the west.

As for the "San Antonio" model, I'm not sure how much of their success is superb drafting and how much of it is just Tim Duncan being THAT good. I mean, people don't generally give the 90's Bulls much credit in terms of the front office even though they did draft Pippen and Kukoc, and signed Rodman not to mention give Phil Jackson a coaching gig. We wax on endlessly of how MJ was unstoppable. Why not give Duncan that same benefit of the doubt?

[stevemcqueen1]

I get the feeling Marcus Smart could have gone first overall in this class. Someone would have wanted to build around him.

[montestewart]

Gsmbit and Hands, I don't think it's just about drafting special people with SA. They've had their guys struggle at times. Parker is such a different player now than he was early in his career. His decision making and shooting and entire feel for the game got so much better over time. Danny Green washed out of SA the first time because he didn't play hard or with enough awareness. Kawhi Leonard slipped out of the lottery in the draft because of concerns about his shooting and his scoring ability, now you see him confidently draining threes and driving to the basket and changing his shots at the rim to score through contact and pick up the and-1 over some of the best defenders in the game.

Maybe you get lucky and find true diamonds in the rough once or twice. But you don't build your whole team that way. The reason why so many of their players fell so far in the draft is because they were flawed or problematic. SA is finding a way to take flawed players and develop them into guys who can, to a man, play tough, shoot, make great passes, and play good defense.

If SA had gotten their hands on Vesely, he would probably be raining threes and playing D like a young AK-47 right now.

I agree with your overall premise, and they might have gotten a better player out of Vesely, but they don't always work their magic with every player that comes in. If you look at their rosters through the years, they've had a number of players, prospects and vets, on the team who did not work out, did not significantly improve. Another thing the Spurs are good at is cutting losses and moving on, in the endless search for the right combination.

It makes no sense keeping a group of players together, wishing and hoping that they will somehow become winners. The only continuity that makes sense is keeping together the players that will contribute to a winner, and getting rid of the ones who won't as quickly as possible (to D-League, another team, or just cut them).

[mhd]

Just listened to bill simmons podcast with Ryan Rossellini who said he heard wiz would NOT take Noel if he's there at 3 b/c too many red flags. Noel is scaring teams with who he is associating with, that he has no agent, and doesn't return calls, etc

[stevemcqueen1]

Did someone say Leastern Conference? I'm pretty sure it was the Beastern Conference back in 2003 that produced one 50-win team out of the east vs six 50+ win teams (two 60-win teams) in the west.

As for the "San Antonio" model, I'm not sure how much of their success is superb drafting and how much of it is just Tim Duncan being THAT good. I mean, people don't generally give the 90's Bulls much credit in terms of the front office even though they did draft Pippen and Kukoc, and signed Rodman not to mention give Phil Jackson a coaching gig. We wax on endlessly of how MJ was unstoppable. Why not give Duncan that same benefit of the doubt?

Krause and Phil should definitely get their due for building and coaching great teams around MJ. They had some really nice players throughout the 90's, the Bulls became a machine. But the Bulls have been bad before and after MJ and before Derrick Rose. Really really bad at times. What's remarkable about SA though is how great they've been before and after Duncan was a top 5 player.

If you look at SA's franchise history, I think they've only had something like 8 seasons below .500 in 45 years of existence. Two more where they finished .500. Their all time winning percentage is .589, incredible really. I think that's the best percentage in the NBA. The only prolonged stretch of badness they've had in their entire franchise history was a four year period in the mid 80s before the Admiral came along. They were an excellent organization long before Duncan got there. They became a dynasty after they hired Popovich and drafted him in '97.

There is a culture down there that is so alien to anything we've known here in a long long time. Their best players are totally committed to the organization and it's all about basketball there. They get these great great players and they keep them for life.

Not long ago, our best player was pooping in shoes and bringing guns into the locker room to play a prank. Our players were getting into twitter wars with fans, hosting Lap Dance Tuesday just as other teams were getting ready for the postseason, and becoming the MVP of Shaqtin' a Fool.

[Severn Hoos]

stevemcq, good observation on the Spurs. And depressing to think that the Wiz had SIX players on the roster this year who were drafted in the top 7, with another likely on the way this summer. And does anyone think we're a championship contender?

Another interesting part of the Spurs story is Leonard. The only reason they were able to draft him (other than the fact that a lot of GMs passed on him) is that they pulled off a trade of George Hill for the 15th pick 2 summers ago. So they took a guy no one thought of as a 1st round pick, helped him work on his game, showcased his talent and increased his value around the league. Then they trade that guy at the peak of his value for another (Leonard) who was undervalued at the time. Buy low, sell high.

But most of all, I really do believe it's the organization, the system, and the environment that allows these guys to be successful. I love your projection of Vesely on the Spurs, it's probably not too far off from the truth. That's why I'm rather sanguine about "missed" draft picks, because I don't believe those guys would have become "those guys" if they were on the Wiz. And it's also why I was OK with the Nene and Okariza trades and now am quite pleased with them, because the change to the environment has already paid off in improving the quality of (some of) the other players. I'd love to see the Wiz add Porter (and, to a slightly lesser extent, Zeller or Oladipo) to continue building that culture here.