ECSF: P1 | (1) Toronto Raptors vs Cleveland Cavaliers (4) | TIED 0-0

Warchant · Post #381 » by **Warchant** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:56 am

Toronto needs to protect the ball....how many TOs did they avg vs Wash?

Post #382 » by **lebron stopper** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:56 am

Warchant wrote:
Heej wrote:
Warchant wrote:I would love an explanation how Indy is a bad matchup?

Indy has 2 very good defensive point guards (Collison and CoJo) that can pick up full court and get the Cavs out of their sets. This has an ancillary effect of draining LeBron's tank as he's forced to bring the ball up every possession. Oladipo is unguardable in isolation, the only one who even remotely has a chance is LeBron but Oladipo still crosses him up and blows by him basically at will. Thad Young is one of the best Stretch 4 defenders in the league. The pacers as a unit have solid 2 way players rounding that out with Bogdanovic and Turner.

Oladipos singular brilliance in single coverage combined with the Pacers outright dominance by their bigs in the post and on the offensive glass vs switches forced the Cavs into playing a gimmick defense to have any hope of containing him. Also, these Pacers are arguably the most physical team in the playoffs after the Heat and the Warriors. The Cavs are soft except for George Hill, JR, and LeBron. The extra physical teams have always done a number on the Cavs

Isnt Ibaka and Young the same kind of player w Ibaka a more offensive threat? JV is much more physical than Turner

Lmaooooooo Andrea Ibaka is hardly a "threat" on both ends of the court. :rofl:

Thad Young would be much more helpful for the Raptors (like 100000000x more helpful) than this overpaid bricklaying bum who moves like he's made of stone.

Wolfgang630 · Post #383 » by **Wolfgang630** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:58 am

There's so many uninformed opinions on here. Are some of you even watching the Raptors before claiming the Cavs are going to win? It's like some are using past instances and applying it to this series when the Raptors are the better team. They have the better BENCH, which is very important. This feels like the turning point series for the Raptors where they break through and beat Lebron.

Heej · Post #384 » by **Heej** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 am

Warchant wrote:
Heej wrote:
Warchant wrote:I would love an explanation how Indy is a bad matchup?

Indy has 2 very good defensive point guards (Collison and CoJo) that can pick up full court and get the Cavs out of their sets. This has an ancillary effect of draining LeBron's tank as he's forced to bring the ball up every possession. Oladipo is unguardable in isolation, the only one who even remotely has a chance is LeBron but Oladipo still crosses him up and blows by him basically at will. Thad Young is one of the best Stretch 4 defenders in the league. The pacers as a unit have solid 2 way players rounding that out with Bogdanovic and Turner.

Oladipos singular brilliance in single coverage combined with the Pacers outright dominance by their bigs in the post and on the offensive glass vs switches forced the Cavs into playing a gimmick defense to have any hope of containing him. Also, these Pacers are arguably the most physical team in the playoffs after the Heat and the Warriors. The Cavs are soft except for George Hill, JR, and LeBron. The extra physical teams have always done a number on the Cavs

Isnt Ibaka and Young the same kind of player w Ibaka a more offensive threat? JV is much more physical than Turner

Ibaka isn't quite as frisky on the boards or as good at killing guards in the post on switches imo. While Turner is no gazelle, JVs footspeed on help and rim protection is even worse. I'm not sure you'll be able to get away with stationing him on a bricky JR the way you could with Turner. His closeouts are too lumbering and JR will happily pull, while Turner was able to close out well enough to make guys think twice. When the Cavs go small this out of necessity will leave JV on Love who is likely going to get the best of him this series.

The real matchup problem comes from the fact that DeRozan is frankly not as good or as much of a stressor on offense and defense as Oladipo is. His suspect spacing will shrink the floor for the Raptors in a way that never happened for the Pacers. And I'm not sure how he'll fair tracking shooters through multiple screens, which he'll have to do vs Korver

jonjames · Post #385 » by **jonjames** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:00 am

ElectricMayhem wrote:I still think Cleveland is the most likely team to come out of the East. Didn't matter when they were down 7 at halftime in a 2-2 series or after they got their souls eaten in Game 6. I'd like to see the Raptors win, but I see Cleveland in 6. They seemed to control the Raptors when the game was on the line the last couple games late in the regular season.

Two things:
-the two games the Raptors lost to Cleveland during the regular season was at Cleveland where the Raptors typically play worse than at home
-those losses were in the midst of Toronto's losing slump, after Toronto won 11 straight they went into a losing slump starting with the loss to OKC at home giving up 132 points, Toronto lost 5 of 8 games during that stretch and their defense fell off a lot, since then they won 4 straight and their defense picked up holding all 4 teams to under 102 points and two under 80, during the losing stretch they gave up 110+ points in 7 of 8 games

Raptors got this. I'm far more confident in them beating Cleveland than them beating Philly. Even Philly is a better team than Cleveland this year.

Prokorov · Post #386 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:01 am

CptCanada wrote:People who are saying that LeBron has some mental edge over the Raptors are stupid. He has simply had a better team than the Raptors every single year and he plays his guts out every time that he plays Toronto. For the first time ever LeBron does not have a better team than the Raptors, figure it out.

its not lebrons teams. its lebron. he alone is better then toronto

LightTheBeam · Post #387 » by **LightTheBeam** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:01 am

SFour wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Man this board is really going downhill. All the massive crowd of Raptors fans jump down your throat if you have a negative opinion of them.

Sorry demar DeRozan **** the bed last year against the Cavs in the playoffs. You lost tucker, Joseph, and Powell regressed. Those guys were replaced by rookie OG, siakam, and FVV picking up a bigger role. I'm sorry i don't see the huge improvement you guys see.

Damn dude it's so annoying. If you have anything bad to say about them, you get quoted 16 times with personal attacks. Its **** basketball man, get a life.

you clearly don't watch Raptors games yet you act like you know everything. "Rookie" OG is the best defender on the team, there's a reason he's starting on the #1 team in the East as a rookie, hint - it's not for his offense. Siakam can easily replace Ibaka in a couple years as a starter. And FVV is arguably the 3rd or 4th most important player on this team as he leads the bench mob and closes out games in the 4th quarter, his nickname is Steady Freddy for a reason.

Anyways you clearly have a hatred for raptors fan, you continuously spew out garbage trying to bait raptors fans, then you're surprised when they reply to you. lmao

I have no hatred towards anyone. You guys are so used to losing to lebron that you developed a victim mentality.

Every year I continue to hear how other east teams have improved and now is their turn. Pacers, hawks, Raptors, celtica.. this has been happening for a decade.

Yet somehow me saying that the Cavs will win in 6 is baiting Raptors fans?

I've watched the Raptors play plenty, and I like FVV, I even started a thread about him a few months ago on the t&t board. But when it comes down to the 4th quarter of a playoff game you can't have 8 people on the court. And by far the best player is on the Cavs.

I'll eat crow for a year If I'm wrong, I just see lebron getting to the ECF again and Raptors fans blaming the refs.

I get it I get it, this Raptors team is much better than last season. But don't forget lebron swept you last year. I don't think saying Cavs in 6 is some incredibly bias hot take.

dukes_wild · Post #388 » by **dukes_wild** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:04 am

Cavs in 6

6ixSideSniper · Post #389 » by **6ixSideSniper** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:05 am

Nowitness wrote:It should be Raps in 5, but there's something about that guy wearing #23, we'll see......

Van Vleet is good but common now.

LightTheBeam · Post #390 » by **LightTheBeam** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:06 am

Heej wrote:
Warchant wrote:
Heej wrote:Indy has 2 very good defensive point guards (Collison and CoJo) that can pick up full court and get the Cavs out of their sets. This has an ancillary effect of draining LeBron's tank as he's forced to bring the ball up every possession. Oladipo is unguardable in isolation, the only one who even remotely has a chance is LeBron but Oladipo still crosses him up and blows by him basically at will. Thad Young is one of the best Stretch 4 defenders in the league. The pacers as a unit have solid 2 way players rounding that out with Bogdanovic and Turner.

Oladipos singular brilliance in single coverage combined with the Pacers outright dominance by their bigs in the post and on the offensive glass vs switches forced the Cavs into playing a gimmick defense to have any hope of containing him. Also, these Pacers are arguably the most physical team in the playoffs after the Heat and the Warriors. The Cavs are soft except for George Hill, JR, and LeBron. The extra physical teams have always done a number on the Cavs

Isnt Ibaka and Young the same kind of player w Ibaka a more offensive threat? JV is much more physical than Turner

Ibaka isn't quite as frisky on the boards or as good at killing guards in the post on switches imo. While Turner is no gazelle, JVs footspeed on help and rim protection is even worse. I'm not sure you'll be able to get away with stationing him on a bricky JR the way you could with Turner. His closeouts are too lumbering and JR will happily pull, while Turner was able to close out well enough to make guys think twice. When the Cavs go small this out of necessity will leave JV on Love who is likely going to get the best of him this series.

The real matchup problem comes from the fact that DeRozan is frankly not as good or as much of a stressor on offense and defense as Oladipo is. His suspect spacing will shrink the floor for the Raptors in a way that never happened for the Pacers. And I'm not sure how he'll fair tracking shooters through multiple screens, which he'll have to do vs Korver

They can't understand the concept of matchups dude. Your logic is in one ear out the other.

guess_wh0 · Post #391 » by **guess_wh0** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:09 am

I would reply to this Pizza guy that last year the Raps looked completely different, the bench mob did not exist + the Cavs had Kyrie & Home court but he'll just start crying that he gets replied to on a forum.

SFour · Post #392 » by **SFour** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:14 am

guess_wh0 wrote:I would reply to this Pizza guy that last year the Raps looked completely different, the bench mob did not exist + the Cavs had Kyrie & Home court but he'll just start crying that he gets replied to on a forum.

His analysis is Shaq-level bad.

Heej · Post #393 » by **Heej** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:17 am

Raptors have the best bench, but if Ty Lue goes with what he saw in that stretch LeBron was on the bench today, the Hill-Love pick and pop with the left side of the floor cleared out so Love can pop into a wide open corner will murk that bench's production. If anyone can blow that up and get over the screen it's FVV, but it's gonna be tough. If they're going to that in the 2nd quarter he'll be gassed by the 4th. But even still it's either Cavs in 6 or raptors in 7. The raps are that good. They're legit one of the best teams LeBron has had to face in the East in years. Possibly as good as the 2013 Pacers.

VinBaker6 · Post #394 » by **VinBaker6** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:18 am

Raps in 5. Cavs don't stand a chance. LeBron will wear himself out in the first half of every game trying to go for the kill.

everdiso · Post #395 » by **everdiso** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:18 am

Heej wrote:
Warchant wrote:
Heej wrote:Indy has 2 very good defensive point guards (Collison and CoJo) that can pick up full court and get the Cavs out of their sets. This has an ancillary effect of draining LeBron's tank as he's forced to bring the ball up every possession. Oladipo is unguardable in isolation, the only one who even remotely has a chance is LeBron but Oladipo still crosses him up and blows by him basically at will. Thad Young is one of the best Stretch 4 defenders in the league. The pacers as a unit have solid 2 way players rounding that out with Bogdanovic and Turner.

Oladipos singular brilliance in single coverage combined with the Pacers outright dominance by their bigs in the post and on the offensive glass vs switches forced the Cavs into playing a gimmick defense to have any hope of containing him. Also, these Pacers are arguably the most physical team in the playoffs after the Heat and the Warriors. The Cavs are soft except for George Hill, JR, and LeBron. The extra physical teams have always done a number on the Cavs

Isnt Ibaka and Young the same kind of player w Ibaka a more offensive threat? JV is much more physical than Turner

Ibaka isn't quite as frisky on the boards or as good at killing guards in the post on switches imo. While Turner is no gazelle, JVs footspeed on help and rim protection is even worse. I'm not sure you'll be able to get away with stationing him on a bricky JR the way you could with Turner. His closeouts are too lumbering and JR will happily pull, while Turner was able to close out well enough to make guys think twice. When the Cavs go small this out of necessity will leave JV on Love who is likely going to get the best of him this series.

The real matchup problem comes from the fact that DeRozan is frankly not as good or as much of a stressor on offense and defense as Oladipo is. His suspect spacing will shrink the floor for the Raptors in a way that never happened for the Pacers. And I'm not sure how he'll fair tracking shooters through multiple screens, which he'll have to do vs Korver

the raps literally have multiple players for every matchup. find an exploit and the raps will make the adjustment.

the cavs, on the other hand, don't have anyone to slow down the raps PGs or Cs, and korver and love simply can't keep up with the athletic matchups and perimeter threats they'll be faced with.

mowcrowbar · Post #396 » by **mowcrowbar** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:23 am

RipPizzaGuy wrote:Man this board is really going downhill. All the massive crowd of Raptors fans jump down your throat if you have a negative opinion of them.

Sorry demar DeRozan **** the bed last year against the Cavs in the playoffs. You lost tucker, Joseph, and Powell regressed. Those guys were replaced by rookie OG, siakam, and FVV picking up a bigger role. I'm sorry i don't see the huge improvement you guys see.

Damn dude it's so annoying. If you have anything bad to say about them, you get quoted 16 times with personal attacks. Its **** basketball man, get a life.

Even you can see why you are getting quoted? That is a baseless claim that can be factually proven otherwise. Most simply, 51 to 59.

alienswon · Post #397 » by **alienswon** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:25 am

blah blah blah blah lebron. blah blah blah lowry/derozan/ blah blah blah blah. The only real assessment of how this series can unfold will be from watching Game 1.

Specifically, does one team obviously have an advantage or is it evenly matched and it will hinder how each team can manage closing out games.

NBAFan93 · Post #398 » by **NBAFan93** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:38 am

I’m not sure who will win, but this should be a good series. I know CLE will give Toronto a much better run for their money than Indiana would have and I’m so happy the Cavs won today for this reason. I hate watching sweeps and blowouts in the playoffs...and I think whatever happens here, it at least won’t be that. Can’t say the same for any of the other 2nd round series, unfortunately

.

LightTheBeam · Post #399 » by **LightTheBeam** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:39 am

SFour wrote:
guess_wh0 wrote:I would reply to this Pizza guy that last year the Raps looked completely different, the bench mob did not exist + the Cavs had Kyrie & Home court but he'll just start crying that he gets replied to on a forum.

His analysis is Shaq-level bad.

And when the Cavs win in 6 we can have this same convo next playoffs whichever new team lebron is on

LightTheBeam · Post #400 » by **LightTheBeam** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:41 am

mowcrowbar wrote:
RipPizzaGuy wrote:Man this board is really going downhill. All the massive crowd of Raptors fans jump down your throat if you have a negative opinion of them.

Sorry demar DeRozan **** the bed last year against the Cavs in the playoffs. You lost tucker, Joseph, and Powell regressed. Those guys were replaced by rookie OG, siakam, and FVV picking up a bigger role. I'm sorry i don't see the huge improvement you guys see.

Damn dude it's so annoying. If you have anything bad to say about them, you get quoted 16 times with personal attacks. Its **** basketball man, get a life.

Even you can see why you are getting quoted? That is a baseless claim that can be factually proven otherwise. Most simply, 51 to 59.

I guess the warriors got worse as well. Regular season is irrelevant rockets won more than golden state, do you consider them favorites as well?

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