2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread

Johnny Firpo · Post #381 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:36 pm

peja_the_legend wrote:you should chek again the age of HS seniors

Do you think everyone on a high school team is 17-18?

heatwillbeback · Post #382 » by **heatwillbeback** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:37 pm

You could call him anything- he is pretty positionless offensively. Big body, but the game of a guard.

The issue is defensively, and can he cover 4's? He has the physical ability to do so, but that is far from proven especially against the competition he just faced.

Johnny Firpo · Post #383 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:37 pm

The Boy wrote:His game looks like it might translate.. however he has still has yet to play angainst an organized NBA team

So did any other top rookie ever, I have a feeling you weren't protesting them.

SlovenianDragon · Post #384 » by **SlovenianDragon** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:41 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
peja_the_legend wrote:you should chek again the age of HS seniors

Do you think everyone on a high school team is 17-18?

This guy thinks High Schools only have one team.... :oops:

Johnny Firpo · Post #385 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:41 pm

heatwillbeback wrote:You could call him anything- he is pretty positionless offensively. Big body, but the game of a guard.

The issue is defensively, and can he cover 4's? He has the physical ability to do so, but that is far from proven especially against the competition he just faced.

I think he'll do better against most PFs than SFs, obviously there are exceptions, but it's not like anyone can guard LeBron or Anthony Davis. If we go down a level, I think he would do okay against Milsap or PG. We'll see, but at worst he'll be a very solid team defender.

NBAFan93 · Post #386 » by **NBAFan93** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:42 pm

drekwins wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:Isn’t he supposed to be some goat PG? Like Ben Simmons but can shoot 3’s? No? Why isn’t he playing PG?

DSJ?? You put your best players on the floor. You can never have enough ball handlers and creators on the court.

So DSJ is a better playmaker than Doncic? I thought Doncic was supposed to be an elite playmaker... If DSJ is better, than I guess it makes sense.

Johnny Firpo · Post #387 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:45 pm

SlovenianDragon wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:
peja_the_legend wrote:you should chek again the age of HS seniors

Do you think everyone on a high school team is 17-18?

This guy thinks High Schools only have one team....

Who, me? I know the system, there is the junior varsity team, but the best 15-16 year-olds very often make the varsity team, so what I said was perfectly accurate. On any given team, there could be several 15-16-year olds having to compete against grown men who play professional ball. What he said was a completely asinine statement.

LastNameEver · Post #388 » by **LastNameEver** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:46 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
The Boy wrote:Even going way back, players like Pau, Manu, Peja, Big Z and Kirilenko etc. were big amongst Americans.

If the hype is warranted US fans will root for euros.

If they are being shoved down peoples throats early on like Rubio or Darko then they will get a lot of hate.

Giannis and Simmons are not Europeans. I'm been here for a while now, and Pau was hated by a lot of fans, and constantly called a p****y and soft here at RealGm, and the same goes for Dirk. For the German, it was really only 2011 that changed his perception. Kirilenko or Manu were never really popular among casual fans, and they've also been criticized a lot here. Are you saying Doncic does not warrant the hype, like Rubio or Darko? He won everything in Europe and was literally the best player. Why would't he warrant the hype? I don't get it.

You moving goal posts dictating whos euro and whos not.
Like you straight up telling me a dude from Greece aint European lmao

And strawman semantics about casual fans.
Btw casual NBA fans know Manu, even in hip hop culture his name gets cited often.

Johnny Firpo · Post #389 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:47 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:So DSJ is a better playmaker than Doncic? I thought Doncic was supposed to be an elite playmaker... If DSJ is better, than I guess it makes sense.

Why are you trolling? It was one game, Doncic will very obviously have the highest usage rate sooner or later. Carlisle was probably making sure that he understands that no matter who you are, you have to buy into the game plan.

Promezclan · Post #390 » by **Promezclan** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:50 pm

Giannis is European. Manu isnt European, but he was recruited from European leagues. I agree Simmons isn’t a valid comparison, since he played in college.

Johnny Firpo · Post #391 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:52 pm

The Boy wrote:You moving goal posts dictating whos euro and whos not.
Like you straight up telling me a dude from Greece aint European lmao

And strawman semantics about casual fans.
Btw casual NBA fans know Manu.

I mean, come on, Giannis has African heritage, he is not your typical euro. Yes, technically he is, but from a fan standpoint, especially from an American fan's standpoint, he is not your average euro. Anyway, you haven't answered my question, why would Doncic not deserve the hype, when he literally won at every level he played so far, being the best player? I just don't understand why he wouldn't deserve the hype, and please don't say he hasn't played against NBA competition yet, because that's true for every hyped American prospect, and something tells me you don't protest them as much. I mean, come on, the Darko comparison? How is that relevant? Why don't you just come out and say it, you are skeptical because he's European?

mademan · Post #392 » by **mademan** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:52 pm

Man the dude is slooooowwwww. If he can be a star at the NBA level, more respect to him. I just dont see it happening. He'll always have a place in the league because of his skill and BBIQ, but that lack of athleticism and explosiveness will hold him back from being a star imo

Johnny Firpo · Post #393 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:53 pm

Promezclan wrote:Giannis is European. Manu isnt European, but he was recruited from European leagues. I agree Simmons isn’t a valid comparison, since he played in college.

Actually, Manu has Italian citizenship and I think even Italian heritage. So he kind of is, and on top of that the biggest part of his development was completed in Italy. Anyway, sure, Giannis is European, but let's agree that he is not your typical European.

Post #394 » by **Goudelock** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:54 pm

ItsThatEasy wrote:Closest I've seen to either player since they've been gone and I don't even think it's hyperbole.

Doubt there will be a similar rivalry but playing style wise I see both.

I'm moving this to the rookie of the year discussion thread.

CKB · Post #395 » by **CKB** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:56 pm

Doncic has a good handle for his size but he needs to protect the ball better when he drives the lane. He doesn't have the explosive burst but he has his ways to maneuver to his spots. He is a jack of all trades right now.

Promezclan · Post #396 » by **Promezclan** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:58 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
The Boy wrote:You moving goal posts dictating whos euro and whos not.
Like you straight up telling me a dude from Greece aint European lmao

And strawman semantics about casual fans.
Btw casual NBA fans know Manu.

I mean, come on, Giannis has African heritage, he is not your typical euro. Yes, technically he is, but from a fan standpoint, especially from an American fan's standpoint, he is not your average euro. Anyway, you haven't answered my question, why would Doncic not deserve the hype, when he literally won at every level he played so far, being the best player? I just don't understand why he wouldn't deserve the hype, and please don't say he hasn't played against NBA competition yet, because that's true for every hyped American prospect, and something tells me you don't protest them as much. I mean, come on, the Darko comparison? How is that relevant? Why don't you just come out and say it, you are skeptical because he's European?

I think after Gobert, Diaw, Batum, pietrus, Parker, etc. even more dim witted Americans have been able to figure it out

Johnny Firpo · Post #397 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:00 pm

Promezclan wrote:I think after Gobert, Diaw, Batum, pietrus, Parker, etc. even more dim witted Americans have been able to figure it out

You would be surprised.

LastNameEver · Post #398 » by **LastNameEver** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:01 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
The Boy wrote:You moving goal posts dictating whos euro and whos not.
Like you straight up telling me a dude from Greece aint European lmao

And strawman semantics about casual fans.
Btw casual NBA fans know Manu.

I mean, come on, Giannis has African heritage, he is not your typical euro. Yes, technically he is, but from a fan standpoint, especially from an American fan's standpoint, he is not your average euro. Anyway, you haven't answered my question, why would Doncic not deserve the hype, when he literally won at every level he played so far, being the best player? I just don't understand why he wouldn't deserve the hype, and please don't say he hasn't played against NBA competition yet, because that's true for every hyped American prospect, and something tells me you don't protest them as much. I mean, come on, the Darko comparison? How is that relevant? Why don't you just come out and say it, you are skeptical because he's European?

Define skeptical.

Doncic's play style/aesthetic is actually right up my alley.

I am skeptical that he will be comparable to Larry Bird, yes.

Johnny Firpo · Post #399 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:05 pm

The Boy wrote:Doncic's play style/aesthetic is actually right up my alley.

I am skeptical that he will be comparable to Larry Bird, yes.

So should you be, and anyone else, but you kind of implied that he is the next Darko or Rubio (completely different careers and Rubio is a very good player, but let's forget that for a moment). Or did I misunderstand you? Why did you bring up Darko?

The-Power · Post #400 » by **The-Power** » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:10 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:
drekwins wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:Isn’t he supposed to be some goat PG? Like Ben Simmons but can shoot 3’s? No? Why isn’t he playing PG?

DSJ?? You put your best players on the floor. You can never have enough ball handlers and creators on the court.

So DSJ is a better playmaker than Doncic? I thought Doncic was supposed to be an elite playmaker... If DSJ is better, than I guess it makes sense.

Was Irving a better playmaker than LeBron? Some of you should really try harder trolling, or at least be funny by comparing the opponent to HS basketball. At least that shows creativity.

mademan wrote:Man the dude is slooooowwwww. If he can be a star at the NBA level, more respect to him. I just dont see it happening. He'll always have a place in the league because of his skill and BBIQ, but that lack of athleticism and explosiveness will hold him back from being a star imo

Possible, but the league has seen many superstars who weren't elite athletes in the classic sense. Bird and Magic weren't overly athletic, Curry isn't a run and jump athlete, post-injury Paul isn't blowing by anyone because he's quick, and Nash wasn't great athleticially either. That's possibly five of the top 10 GOAT offensive players. Of course the small Guards are still a bit quicker, but they also don't/didn't have the same body to absorb contact or shoot over people.

Doncic is already great at deceleration – something Harden is famously great at, and he's also not a super-quick Guard. Harden, as Doncic possibly as well, also has the strength to cause all kinds of problems for opponents when driving to the rim. He's also a master of angles and manipulating defenses. If Doncic can get anywhere close to his level in that regard, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to become an offensive superstar after a couple years of NBA strength and conditioning programs if Harden can be one. Doncic skill-set certainly shares some similarities with Harden's.

Of course getting to that level is extremely difficult to achieve, and Doncic might never get there. But I do believe there's a path which can lead him to superstardom despite a relative lack of quickness, we've seen it before.