Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[woosah]

According to the logic of some, being renounced means you are horrible right? No one who has been renounced should be pursued. They have no value.
lol

[j-ragg]

According to the logic of some, being renounced means you are horrible right? No one who has been renounced should be pursued. They have no value.
lol

Not sure what you’re trying to say.

But Russell’s cap hold is huge due to him being the #2 pick. It’d be the smart thing to do to renounce him if they have FA plans like they think they do.

You won’t hear a peep about renouncing Dinwiddie because he’s a minimum guy.

Nothing to do with their abilities really, besides Russell not being a max level prospect.

[PennytoShaq]

Zach Lowe gets it:

"Toronto looks like the most complete team outside whatever basketball hedonism Stephen Curry oversees in the Bay. The Raptors have the versatility to mimic small ball without actually being small, which is the best way to win in the NBA in 2018. Their most frequent starting five -- Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Serge Ibaka -- features two nominal big men, including one in Siakam who can facilitate the offense and legitimately defend all five positions. He might also be the fastest player among those five."

We are getting there. Funny thing is when we got Ibaka I fully expected Vogel to play him at 5 and was excited. Oh well.

[PennytoShaq]

Also someone was upset we didn't get Jeremy Lin. C'mon.

"Jeremy Lin cannot be 100 percent recovered from the knee injury that cost him last season. He moves with a leaden creakiness -- unable to gain separation, unsteady in traffic, glued to the ground. He does not look like an NBA player right now."

Zach Lowe

[pepe1991]

Zach Lowe gets it:

"Toronto looks like the most complete team outside whatever basketball hedonism Stephen Curry oversees in the Bay. The Raptors have the versatility to mimic small ball without actually being small, which is the best way to win in the NBA in 2018. Their most frequent starting five -- Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Serge Ibaka -- features two nominal big men, including one in Siakam who can facilitate the offense and legitimately defend all five positions. He might also be the fastest player among those five."

We are getting there. Funny thing is when we got Ibaka I fully expected Vogel to play him at 5 and was excited. Oh well.

we are just one -4 time allstar and one DPOY/MVP candidate away from it

[Knightro]

Lin looks like a guy who can't play anymore and IT is still so injured that can't even get on the practice court.

I know Augustin and Grant are horrible, but we shouldn't pretend that were 10 better options out that there that the Magic didn't even look to acquire because that's just not factual. There may not have even been one.

The guys who were clearly better - Smart, VanVleet, Exum, Evans - all signed for more than the Magic could offer.

The rest of the guys available were either too old (Tony Parker), too injured (IT, Lin) or just as middling and meh as Grant (Ferrell, Napier, Curry, MCW).

[Blue_and_Whte]

I dont think the FO actually thinks we have a good pg rotation. I also feel like options were limited and that theyed rather roll with what we have than give up future cap flexibility.
Its just frustrating to watch normally but watching an All Star PG torch us makes its worse.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

I dont think the FO actually thinks we have a good pg rotation. I also feel like options were limited and that theyed rather roll with what we have than give up future cap flexibility.
Its just frustrating to watch normally but watching an All Star PG torch us makes its worse.

I think there's some accuracy to this.

There's no way the Magic are dealing expiring contracts for future salary unless the player they're getting back is someone who they feel can absolutely start for them next year and beyond. Especially not after more or less taking two years to let some of these contracts ride out.

They can have as few as 7 players under contract heading into the summer of 2019 and just 5 players under contract heading into the summer of 2020 if they want.

[PennytoShaq]

I dont think the FO actually thinks we have a good pg rotation. I also feel like options were limited and that theyed rather roll with what we have than give up future cap flexibility.
Its just frustrating to watch normally but watching an All Star PG torch us makes its worse.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

I know they don’t because I remember when Weltman did the interview this summer that Free Agency was over, he looked super annoyed about stating that we weren’t going after any PGs and DJ and Grant were it. And then Hammond did a summer league interview and stated that we were skinny at that position.

Options were limited and Knightro’s post was very accurate. Of course, posting logic takes a little more time and thought than some of the emotional hot takes that are fired off here in game threads.

[PennytoShaq]

Zach Lowe gets it:

"Toronto looks like the most complete team outside whatever basketball hedonism Stephen Curry oversees in the Bay. The Raptors have the versatility to mimic small ball without actually being small, which is the best way to win in the NBA in 2018. Their most frequent starting five -- Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Serge Ibaka -- features two nominal big men, including one in Siakam who can facilitate the offense and legitimately defend all five positions. He might also be the fastest player among those five."

We are getting there. Funny thing is when we got Ibaka I fully expected Vogel to play him at 5 and was excited. Oh well.

we are just one -4 time allstar and one DPOY/MVP candidate away from it

Yes - Of course Toronto has those top tier players, but the model is what I am talking about. Have to start somewhere..lol.

If Kawhi leaves, I think Toronto’s model will still keep them competitive, but clearly he puts them over the edge right now.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

OPP about to start a long thread on Mo Bamba. Worth a read.

[pepe1991]

Zach Lowe gets it:

"Toronto looks like the most complete team outside whatever basketball hedonism Stephen Curry oversees in the Bay. The Raptors have the versatility to mimic small ball without actually being small, which is the best way to win in the NBA in 2018. Their most frequent starting five -- Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Kawhi Leonard, Pascal Siakam, Serge Ibaka -- features two nominal big men, including one in Siakam who can facilitate the offense and legitimately defend all five positions. He might also be the fastest player among those five."

We are getting there. Funny thing is when we got Ibaka I fully expected Vogel to play him at 5 and was excited. Oh well.

we are just one -4 time allstar and one DPOY/MVP candidate away from it

Yes - Of course Toronto has those top tier players, but the model is what I am talking about. Have to start somewhere..lol.

If Kawhi leaves, I think Toronto’s model will still keep them competitive, but clearly he puts them over the edge right now.

Imo there is no " model" there is just simple question- how many stars do you have and how willing are they to play together.

Lillard -McCullum two undersized guards.
George -Westbrook -PG -SF combo
Lebron - solo ride with youth
Gobert - Mitchell - defensive powerhouses
Jokić- Murray- Harris- point center and two shooters
Giannis and Middelton- supreme athlete and amazing shooter
Griffin and Drummond - not really great on defense big men who dominate right now
Strenght in numbers and Irving - Celtics
Davis and Mirotić as two PFs on Pelicans
Harden and Paul - two dominant guards

Like you said, there is no forumula or model, teams just have to figure what works for them.
But no matter how you build a team, without few stars you won't contend.

[PennytoShaq]

we are just one -4 time allstar and one DPOY/MVP candidate away from it

Yes - Of course Toronto has those top tier players, but the model is what I am talking about. Have to start somewhere..lol.

If Kawhi leaves, I think Toronto’s model will still keep them competitive, but clearly he puts them over the edge right now.

Imo there is no " model" there is just simple question- how many stars do you have and how willing are they to play together.

Lillard -McCullum two undersized guards.
George -Westbrook -PG -SF combo
Lebron - solo ride with youth
Gobert - Mitchell - defensive powerhouses
Jokić- Murray- Harris- point center and two shooters
Giannis and Middelton- supreme athlete and amazing shooter
Griffin and Drummond - not really great on defense big men who dominate right now
Strenght in numbers and Irving - Celtics
Davis and Mirotić as two PFs on Pelicans
Harden and Paul - two dominant guards

Like you said, there is no forumula or model, teams just have to figure what works for them.
But no matter how you build a team, without few stars you won't contend.

I only bring it up because people were saying the Magic are playing Stone Age basketball and some got upset we drafted a long guy in Bamba when we have Isaac. But I think that the length is great as long as they are fast on the court. It is an advantage, and it’s not a bad thing to have. If our entire starting 5 that the new FO creates is guys with no skill set and just length, then we will be bad, but I don’t think that’s what they are going to to do. I think they wanted speedy length in the front court so they can disrupt pick and roll, and I think they will want a guy with Grant’s size at PG who can defend the point but also score the ball. Not easy to find, but if you can get that guy with Isaac and Bamba behind him, you have a very legit team already.

If the Magic could fuse DJ and Grant together, they would be set. But since that cana’t be done, they have to make do until they get a guy who can play on both ends.

[woosah]

According to the logic of some, being renounced means you are horrible right? No one who has been renounced should be pursued. They have no value.
lol

Not sure what you’re trying to say.

But Russell’s cap hold is huge due to him being the #2 pick. It’d be the smart thing to do to renounce him if they have FA plans like they think they do.

You won’t hear a peep about renouncing Dinwiddie because he’s a minimum guy.

Nothing to do with their abilities really, besides Russell not being a max level prospect.

Nah was sarcasm using another poster's logic on here in the magic situation. Not a fan of Russell but he could probably do better than any of what we have now.

[VFX]

Yes - Of course Toronto has those top tier players, but the model is what I am talking about. Have to start somewhere..lol.

If Kawhi leaves, I think Toronto’s model will still keep them competitive, but clearly he puts them over the edge right now.

Imo there is no " model" there is just simple question- how many stars do you have and how willing are they to play together.

Lillard -McCullum two undersized guards.
George -Westbrook -PG -SF combo
Lebron - solo ride with youth
Gobert - Mitchell - defensive powerhouses
Jokić- Murray- Harris- point center and two shooters
Giannis and Middelton- supreme athlete and amazing shooter
Griffin and Drummond - not really great on defense big men who dominate right now
Strenght in numbers and Irving - Celtics
Davis and Mirotić as two PFs on Pelicans
Harden and Paul - two dominant guards

Like you said, there is no forumula or model, teams just have to figure what works for them.
But no matter how you build a team, without few stars you won't contend.

I only bring it up because people were saying the Magic are playing Stone Age basketball and some got upset we drafted a long guy in Bamba when we have Isaac. But I think that the length is great as long as they are fast on the court. It is an advantage, and it’s not a bad thing to have. If our entire starting 5 that the new FO creates is guys with no skill set and just length, then we will be bad, but I don’t think that’s what they are going to to do. I think they wanted speedy length in the front court so they can disrupt pick and roll, and I think they will want a guy with Grant’s size at PG who can defend the point but also score the ball. Not easy to find, but if you can get that guy with Isaac and Bamba behind him, you have a very legit team already.

If the Magic could fuse DJ and Grant together, they would be set. But since that cana’t be done, they have to make do until they get a guy who can play on both ends.

I dont think it’s mainly because Orlando drafted Bamba while already having Isaac. People weren’t happy because this team has lacked an elite swing man that can distribute/ create offense and a legitimate point guard. Two positions that are essential to compete in today’s climate. Pepe’s list shows you need both to be remotely close to competing. IMO Orlando still has neither and it hasn’t been addressed.

[rcklsscognition]

We really need AG to take it to another level and quick. I'm not sure if it'll ever happen but he and the team have got to figure things out. He is getting paid 22 million and his usage is down this year. It's early and the team is getting things in order, but if history is any indication, we've got about a month before the team is in turmoil.

[NavalAviator94]

My Friday hot takes.

-Our PG situation stinks but it is what it is.

- DJ needs to get more involved in the offense and take atleast 10 shots a game. When DJ does this, we win games. When he doesn't, we don't. Look at his stats from last year and this year and they all point to the same thing.

- The next 12 games should be competitive with chances to win however I'm putting asterisks next to the Bucks/Wizards due to their guard play. It's a stretch that could provide some positive momentum until we hit a stretch that starts with Toronto. I'm shooting for 500 or better.

- Pray for Jerian Grant to find some offense.

[PennytoShaq]

Imo there is no " model" there is just simple question- how many stars do you have and how willing are they to play together.

Lillard -McCullum two undersized guards.
George -Westbrook -PG -SF combo
Lebron - solo ride with youth
Gobert - Mitchell - defensive powerhouses
Jokić- Murray- Harris- point center and two shooters
Giannis and Middelton- supreme athlete and amazing shooter
Griffin and Drummond - not really great on defense big men who dominate right now
Strenght in numbers and Irving - Celtics
Davis and Mirotić as two PFs on Pelicans
Harden and Paul - two dominant guards

Like you said, there is no forumula or model, teams just have to figure what works for them.
But no matter how you build a team, without few stars you won't contend.

I only bring it up because people were saying the Magic are playing Stone Age basketball and some got upset we drafted a long guy in Bamba when we have Isaac. But I think that the length is great as long as they are fast on the court. It is an advantage, and it’s not a bad thing to have. If our entire starting 5 that the new FO creates is guys with no skill set and just length, then we will be bad, but I don’t think that’s what they are going to to do. I think they wanted speedy length in the front court so they can disrupt pick and roll, and I think they will want a guy with Grant’s size at PG who can defend the point but also score the ball. Not easy to find, but if you can get that guy with Isaac and Bamba behind him, you have a very legit team already.

If the Magic could fuse DJ and Grant together, they would be set. But since that cana’t be done, they have to make do until they get a guy who can play on both ends.

I dont think it’s mainly because Orlando drafted Bamba while already having Isaac. People weren’t happy because this team has lacked an elite swing man that can distribute/ create offense and a legitimate point guard. Two positions that are essential to compete in today’s climate. Pepe’s list shows you need both to be remotely close to competing. IMO Orlando still has neither and it hasn’t been addressed.

And my quote shows that some people believe having length and speed combined is the most modern way to play basketball.

And those have not been addressed because the best picks were Isaac and Bamba. As stated 1,00x and as stated would happen before this draft - the Magic took the best available player. And he happens to work next to Isaac just fine. Additionally, waiting until later to address PG only makes sense, since it is the easiest spot to fill. Literally every draft has 1-2 PGs in the lottery and college ball has no started yet, so we don’t know who will pop out this year. The Magic will address a swingman or PG in this draft and they have assets to add the other. They could add PG in FA even.

Point is that you can’t address 4-5 positions in one year. You don’t think having a Center matters much in todays NBA, but most NBA GM’s don’t see it that way.

[pepe1991]

We really need AG to take it to another level and quick. I'm not sure if it'll ever happen but he and the team have got to figure things out. He is getting paid 22 million and his usage is down this year. It's early and the team is getting things in order, but if history is any indication, we've got about a month before the team is in turmoil.

Gordon's efficiency is bit improved ( FG%, three point percentage, eFG% , TS), but his FTs are ugly so far, but we talk about 5 games sample size so it's too early to draw any conclusions.
By basketabll reference, he allegedly spent 40% of PT at C position

[Floridharkless]

Why not this trade ?
ORL receive: J.Butler + T.Jones
MIN receive: A.Gordon + K.Birch