Tom Thibodeau To The Knicks 90% Likely!

[HighRyzer83]

1. There's no such thing as too much focus on defense.

2. This guarantees Mitch will actually play significant minutes. Mitch should play 40min, foul trouble not withstanding.

3. If the millennials consider discipline and accountability out dated, I say fck the millennials.

[HarthorneWingo]

1. There's no such thing as too much focus on defense.

2. This guarantees Mitch will actually play significant minutes. Mitch should play 40min foul trouble not withstanding.

3. If the millennials consider discipline out dated I say fck the millennials.

You left out the offensive scheming. I think that's where Thibs is 90s.

[HighRyzer83]

1. There's no such thing as too much focus on defense.

2. This guarantees Mitch will actually play significant minutes. Mitch should play 40min foul trouble not withstanding.

3. If the millennials consider discipline out dated I say fck the millennials.

You left out the offensive scheming. I think that's where Thibs is 90s.

The whole premises for thibs is to instill that base of defense and work ethic. Once we have that foundation set, we can build from there.

[HarthorneWingo]

1. There's no such thing as too much focus on defense.

2. This guarantees Mitch will actually play significant minutes. Mitch should play 40min foul trouble not withstanding.

3. If the millennials consider discipline out dated I say fck the millennials.

You left out the offensive scheming. I think that's where Thibs is 90s.

The whole premises for thibs is to instill that base of defense and work ethic. Once we have that foundation set, we can build from there.

I thought Miller did as nice a job with turning the defense around once he became coach. He did away with all of the switching under Fizdale and put a new scheme in place where we decided to protect the paint instead. I think that worked out pretty well. Miller's got JVG's endorsement. Thinks the Knicks are crazy not to keep him. I see Miller as a better coach for the young players. If we make a bunch of moves to bring in vets, then Thibs could be the guy. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Nets aren't looking hard at him.

[blanko]

If we go with Thibs, KAT would never be in our future.

KAT is probably very much not in our future already.

Dude kat is a looser, he is never gonna win because he doesn't care. With all of his physical talents he is one of the worst defenders in the nba, his teams historically have a better defensive rating with him off the floor.

Slimmer Eddy curry with a jump shot dc for 2020. Thats whar kat is.

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[blanko]

Don't want Thibs

His act might not play well w/ younger players (as we saw in MIN) and his teams consistently rank toward the bottom of the league in 3PT attempts; he hasn't adapted to today's spacing

Hire Kenny Atkinson; he's proven he can develop young players in today's game (and he had less to work with in BKN)

Also, pretty sure KAT hated Thibs.....and isn't KAT supposedly on the Knicks short list of stars they'd want to acquire if they ask out? You'd think that's something Knicks brass would care about considering they seem motivated to land a star, tho I still think they need to focus on drafting/developing (and maybe a star signs in 2021 or via trade w/o gutting the team)

Is it younget players or loosers?
Jesus christ kat was loosing before tibs and after tibs. He will loose with different coaches because he doesnt care.


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[WargamesX]

You left out the offensive scheming. I think that's where Thibs is 90s.

The whole premises for thibs is to instill that base of defense and work ethic. Once we have that foundation set, we can build from there.

I thought Miller did as nice a job with turning the defense around once he became coach. He did away with all of the switching under Fizdale and put a new scheme in place where we decided to protect the paint instead. I think that worked out pretty well. Miller's got JVG's endorsement. Thinks the Knicks are crazy not to keep him. I see Miller as a better coach for the young players. If we make a bunch of moves to bring in vets, then Thibs could be the guy. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Nets aren't looking hard at him.

Fizdale was such a bad coach.

His whole purpose was to come here and manage ego’s and I don’t even think he did that well. Miller might be the move though I wish we got to see him coach the youth in April.

[blanko]

The whole premises for thibs is to instill that base of defense and work ethic. Once we have that foundation set, we can build from there.

I thought Miller did as nice a job with turning the defense around once he became coach. He did away with all of the switching under Fizdale and put a new scheme in place where we decided to protect the paint instead. I think that worked out pretty well. Miller's got JVG's endorsement. Thinks the Knicks are crazy not to keep him. I see Miller as a better coach for the young players. If we make a bunch of moves to bring in vets, then Thibs could be the guy. Frankly, I'm surprised that the Nets aren't looking hard at him.

Fizdale was such a bad coach.

His whole purpose was to come here and manage ego’s and I don’t even think he did that well. Miller might be the move though I wish we got to see him coach the youth in April.

I feel like fiz was shook after he found out kd and kyrie wasnt coming

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[moocow007]

As far as the Wolves and Thibs failures...

And the Wolves have done what since Thibs was fired? They've actually gotten worse (yeah they really have). It is quite possible that its just a bad team and that there's not anything anyone could have done to make them any better. Maybe, just maybe, the great Karl Anthony Towns just simply is not a player that you can win with as a centerpiece of your team? Something to consider for those that ran Carmelo Anthony out of town but want Towns in a Knicks uniform?

So, yes, Thibs has his faults, may very much be overrated and his system may not ideally fit the modern NBA but the Wolves tenure isn't dead on proof cause that was just an ass team that has turned into a bigger ass since he left. Before anyone says anything about Thibs the GM...see Phil Jackson (both made the same amount of sense and resulted in the same kind of fruitlessness).

And no im not saying the Knicks should hire him but folks getting too carried away here.

Yeah that’s my thing too it’s hard to judge him because he went to the wolves. That’s like saying D’antoni is a bad coach because of what happened when he coached the Knicks. D’antoni is a flawed coach, but the FO never gave him what he needed to even halfway succeed except for half a season of Amare before the Melo trade. Thibs went to Minny and then as a FO made trades and FA signing to try and get the people he needed. However, even his older players were well old, and well it was a mess.

His results in the front office was abysmal and he should own all blame for that. However, his coaching tenure might not have been his fault only. He was able to get some short term success as a coach with Jimmy, but Jimmy hated his team mates.

A more realistic approach is to say Thibs is a flawed coach, but he’s not a outright bad coach. We’ve had outright bad coaches in Fisher, Hornacek, and Fizdale. There is a push for Kenny Atkinson too and he is also a flawed coach. Both of them are examples of pick your poisons.

Yep agreed.

[HarthorneWingo]

As far as the Wolves and Thibs failures...

And the Wolves have done what since Thibs was fired? They've actually gotten worse (yeah they really have). It is quite possible that its just a bad team and that there's not anything anyone could have done to make them any better. Maybe, just maybe, the great Karl Anthony Towns just simply is not a player that you can win with as a centerpiece of your team? Something to consider for those that ran Carmelo Anthony out of town but want Towns in a Knicks uniform?

So, yes, Thibs has his faults, may very much be overrated and his system may not ideally fit the modern NBA but the Wolves tenure isn't dead on proof cause that was just an ass team that has turned into a bigger ass since he left. Before anyone says anything about Thibs the GM...see Phil Jackson (both made the same amount of sense and resulted in the same kind of fruitlessness).

And no im not saying the Knicks should hire him but folks getting too carried away here.

Yeah that’s my thing too it’s hard to judge him because he went to the wolves. That’s like saying D’antoni is a bad coach because of what happened when he coached the Knicks. D’antoni is a flawed coach, but the FO never gave him what he needed to even halfway succeed except for half a season of Amare before the Melo trade. Thibs went to Minny and then as a FO made trades and FA signing to try and get the people he needed. However, even his older players were well old, and well it was a mess.

His results in the front office was abysmal and he should own all blame for that. However, his coaching tenure might not have been his fault only. He was able to get some short term success as a coach with Jimmy, but Jimmy hated his team mates.

A more realistic approach is to say Thibs is a flawed coach, but he’s not a outright bad coach. We’ve had outright bad coaches in Fisher, Hornacek, and Fizdale. There is a push for Kenny Atkinson too and he is also a flawed coach. Both of them are examples of pick your poisons.

Yep agreed.

... which all means that we should hold onto Miller?

[god shammgod]

Watch on YouTube

[mpharris36]

Watch on YouTube

seemed like he was talking about the knicks and nets there at the end. Saying it depends on what team you have.

A young developing team

or

A team with championship aspirations with players coming off injury

[GONYK]

Watch on YouTube

seemed like he was talking about the knicks and nets there at the end. Saying it depends on what team you have.

A young developing team

or

A team with championship aspirations with players coming off injury

KD and Kyrie will just have nubs for legs if Thibs gets his hands on them.

[moocow007]

Yeah that’s my thing too it’s hard to judge him because he went to the wolves. That’s like saying D’antoni is a bad coach because of what happened when he coached the Knicks. D’antoni is a flawed coach, but the FO never gave him what he needed to even halfway succeed except for half a season of Amare before the Melo trade. Thibs went to Minny and then as a FO made trades and FA signing to try and get the people he needed. However, even his older players were well old, and well it was a mess.

His results in the front office was abysmal and he should own all blame for that. However, his coaching tenure might not have been his fault only. He was able to get some short term success as a coach with Jimmy, but Jimmy hated his team mates.

A more realistic approach is to say Thibs is a flawed coach, but he’s not a outright bad coach. We’ve had outright bad coaches in Fisher, Hornacek, and Fizdale. There is a push for Kenny Atkinson too and he is also a flawed coach. Both of them are examples of pick your poisons.

Yep agreed.

... which all means that we should hold onto Miller?

I think if the end play for Thibs is to have Thibs as the head coach for this young team, then I agree. But I believe Leon Rose and the Knicks view Thibs as the first domino of many dominos which could result in some surprising changes beyond the draft. In that case, there can be a valid argument for Thibs to be their head coach.

It still comes down to the same thing it's about for over 20 years now. What is the plan. Is it viable? And how skilled are the Knicks front office at being able to execute it. I very much believe Rose has a big plan (that's his big skill, he's a real snake oil, smoke and mirrors guy unlike the fake one's we've had). Whether he can actually execute it is the question. On the positive side, he can't possibly be any more incompetent than what the Knicks have had for the past 2+ decades.

So I'm not necessarily going to unequivocally shoot down anything nor wholeheartedly support anything until I see what the end game is here.

[GONYK]

Watch on YouTube

Thibs is just repeating what he said at the Sloan conference here.

He never explains why he plays someone like Derrick Rose 38 mins on consecutive nights in Minny, when he won one of the games by double digits. Or why he routinely has his starters in at the end of 20 point blowouts.

That can't just be waved away because you give them a lighter load in practice. It just plain doesn't make sense.

[mpharris36]

Watch on YouTube

Thibs is just repeating what he said at the Sloan conference here.

He never explains why he plays someone like Derrick Rose 38 mins on consecutive nights in Minny, when he won one of the games by double digits. Or why he routinely has his starters in at the end of 20 point blowouts.

That can't just be waved away because you give them a lighter load in practice. It just plain doesn't make sense.

yeah he doesn't seem like he is planning to change much. He kept saying his record speaks for itself and what use to win the NBA still wins now. While both are true he needs to take accountability for him running his players into the ground and he kinda brushed that subject off...which is a scray proposition.

Kinda hope he lands somewhere else because he wants a winning team more. We aren't in the position to be playing guys 40 mins a night. We are still in the development stage.

Much rather have Kenny Atkinson even if he won't be the coach when we start winning. I believe he is the coach needed for the next 2-3 years.

[NoLayupRule]

we could do a lot worse than Thibs, and have

we could probably do a lot better as well

but if we bring in a professional coach who emphasizes defense as a winning strategy and refuses to accept losing well then were moving in the right direction

truth is that young team or not with the lottery set up as it is its just not smart to continue to tank

were terrible this year. simply terrible. worse than even predicted. And still were probably gonna be 7-9 in the lottery

thats not ok and its not because we didn't embrace the tank hard enough


truth is we have to get to winning ways and Thibs might be the start of that
I think Akinson is probably a better fit however

[Deeeez Knicks]

Wonder if Thibs would even want to come to the Knicks? It kinda sounds like even he knows he wants a more vet, ready to win now team.

Of course a fat check would change a lot of peoples mind if Rose really wants him.

[mpharris36]

Wonder if Thibs would even want to come to the Knicks? It kinda sounds like even he knows he wants a more vet, ready to win now team.

Of course a fat check would change a lot of peoples mind if Rose really wants him.

thats whats scares me especially if Rose really wants him he probably will have some say in player decisions. I wonder if he will push for trades to get more vet pieces.

[thebuzzardman]

Knicks will probably hire Thibs.

They want that name recognition and the credibility that he brings.

He'll also bring preparedness and defensive effort, though of course it remains to be seen if he can make his modified triangle a bit more 3 point friendly and also if his defense is still all about the "Ice" or that can be flexible as well.

Not going to enter the Thibs debate, though I think the D'Antoni comp of good but flawed is apt. Thibs clearly checks a few "good coach" boxes, jury is out on a couple of important ones for the modern game as well.

Those points aside, I think the Knicks hire him.

A few points that probably belong in the "Leon Rose" topic.

Spoiler:

After Phil got the boot, Mills took over.
We can quibble over if it was "Mills plan, Mills + Perry, McKinsey plan" but what happened, in a very broad nutshell, is this:

Dolan got sold the idea that being "not so good" for ...I'd say two seasons... wasn't so terrible, that the Knicks should hold on draft picks and/or acquire them, and try to husband cap space for "big stars", instead of blowing it on "near stars" or "good players". Or that a team should maintain cap flexibility to land a "star(s)" before adding "good" players, at the very least draft the role players to put around the stars

I've debated with myself if Mills was being slick and buying some "non judged" few years as POBO, but it's clear Dolan got sold on this general idea.

What's apparent in hindsight, especially after KP got traded and then KD\Kyrie DIDN'T happen, is that Mills either initially sold the Knicks as being players for either ONE other star before KP got traded - but 3 years away, OR, certainly after KP got traded, that the Knicks now had space for TWO MAX CATS in a year, and, IMHO, oversold to Dolan his ability land those kinds of players.

Also, smart or more patient franchises might be willing to sign up for a 5 year plan under a "new POBO/GM" but I think Mills was under some pressure to deliver in about 3. I'm not here to debate the fine points - those expectations could have been set the moment KP got traded by Dolan, by Mills himself etc, but put it this way: Dolan was fine with riding out a couple of bad seasons, upping draft pick position, taking a couple of shots at the lottery, managing the cap downward with 1 year deals, but ONLY in the context that there would be a "big FA" delivery by Mills at the end of the cap space rainbow.

What I'm getting at is Mills sucked, but any POBO/GM is in the unenviable position of managing Dolan. Which is why the Dolan J Trump twitter account is so brilliant. Because I think a bball exec gets some latitude, but you have to manage the impetuous ego of Dolan.

So, back on point, after KP is traded, certainly, Mills buys a couple of years to get under the cap (solid GM type idea) and hold picks (solid GM 101'ing) but since the potential "star" in KP is traded, Mills sells these normal basketball activities for any other team to Dolan with the sales pitch that after it shakes out, Dolan will get the splashy FA hire he usually craves, plus some added urgency since Nets moved to Bk etc.

Once Mills didn't land Durant/Kyrie, it was over. Now, there are arguments to be made it still wasn't a bad idea to take a shot a "the big names" and even if it failed, to kick the can down the road a year or two. To me, trading KP aside, is the "normal team" path. Be "in it to win it" but no guarantees in life, and then get back to drafting, managing the cap, and look out for those trades or FA signings, even if takes another two or three years.

However, this is the Knicks and this is Dolan's team. Mills wouldn't even get two years to tank, shed salary if he wasn't "landing the star" at the end. When that didn't happen, Mills sold Dolan on "Well, it's ok. We are still managing the cap, but now will add some guys and we can be a fringe playoff team".

When it was obvious that wasn't happening, Dolan lost patience. It should have been clearer to me, but once Fizdale was fired, Mills was out, because that's Dolan saying "F*ck you, times up, you didn't get it done"

Which brings us to Leon Rose.

There is only one reason you hire an ex agent, and that's for his contacts among players and around the league - something you'd hear Mills was known for - in stuff in the NY Post, so let's assume that's leaked into there by either MSG and/or Mills. Anyway, Mills, in the eyes of Dolan, was lacking in that area, so his pivot is to someone he thinks can now do that.

Rose was hired so he can back channel talk to ex clients who are either due up as FA's, or are under contract, but then encouraged to force a trade to "bright lights, big city", which I'd assume why World Wide Wes is quasi on the payroll. For that NBA version of espionage/plausible deniability diplomacy stuff.


Kind of a digression, but I while the Knicks did the "development thing" for a while, Rose was brought in to bring in veteran, star players - if possible. It doesn't mean the knicks abandon player development or the draft, but at some point a team drafts for X years but then needs to start consolidating talent. Of course, it's the Knicks so the hire feels two years too early, but Rose is here to get "win now/star" players within the next two years - at the outside. And the guy coaching that team will be a proven coach. So I'd bank on Thibs, or something like that.

Oh, I get all this seems odd with Perry still on board. I feel like that has to do with the coronavirus and draft, but I can't quite make sense of it, other than Dolan is a f*cking weirdo and maybe insisted Perry stay to save a few $.

I wasn't specifically against Rose being hired, but would have felt a ton better about it if a proven GM or a young rising star GM (Webster\Arturas Karnisovas) was hired, and maybe that will still happen.

But Rose is here because Dolan got impatient, tired of the Nets showing him up, and I don't see him tolerating some random no name coach.